Issue with Online Proselytizing (Trigger Warning)

Yury: You attributed a quote to me that were words I never said: "murder", "killing" and "genocide".

Still, I get what you are saying.  You would use different words to describe what happened.

I would say it was just wrong, not part of any good god’s plan, and done at the hands of christians.

The govt in 2015 described this as a 'cultural genocide' perpetrated by themselves and the Catholic Church. I wonder if they will revisit their conclusions based upon new evidence. Only 130+ more schools to visit.... 

petzl logicwrote:

The govt in 2015 described this as a 'cultural genocide' perpetrated by themselves and the Catholic Church. I wonder if they will revisit their conclusions based upon new evidence. Only 130+ more schools to visit.... 

You really have a vendetta against the Catholic Church. Seems like it is messing with your serenity!

There are many atrocities out there. We can't take them personally or we'd never enjoy life. Let it go, Grasshopper.

FrankPSwrote:

You really have a vendetta against the Catholic Church. Seems like it is messing with your serenity!

There are many atrocities out there. We can't take them personally or we'd never enjoy life. Let it go, Grasshopper.

Yes Frank, just forget history and only live for the now like a real 'murican!

M Mwrote:

Yes Frank, just forget history and only live for the now like a real 'murican!

I'll bet you didn't do too well when you took reading comprehension tests as a kid. That's OK, you're probably good at something else.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/hundreds-of-bodies-found-in-unmarked-graves-at-former-saskatchewan-residential-school
" A Saskatchewan First Nation says it has made the “horrific and shocking discovery” of hundreds of unmarked graves — many believed to be children — near a former residential school, with a total expected to be over three times higher than the 215 discovered recently in Kamloops, B.C., according to a source briefed on the file.

Leaders of the Cowessess First Nation, a roughly two hour drive east of Regina, are expected to reveal details of the macabre discovery near what was once the Marieval Indian Residential School during a press conference Thursday morning, as well as the latest count of newly-identified remains."

I am not sure I can 100% trust a report with such lack of details.

FrankPSwrote:

You really have a vendetta against the Catholic Church. Seems like it is messing with your serenity!

There are many atrocities out there. We can't take them personally or we'd never enjoy life. Let it go, Grasshopper.

no, but we can look at them, look at how they've covered up the atrocities, and admit that as an institution they're deserving of this "vendetta".

well, we can. You certainly won't.

Yurywrote:

I am not sure I can 100% trust a report with such lack of details.

Ha ha, now I know you're trolling! But it totally does seem like there is a group of people out there that think an article being honest about what isn't known yet is less trustworthy. 

Like they'll believe the statement, "Vitamax increases your health 113%!" more than something that says, "Vitamax may reduce your cholesterol levels." Good job on playing one of those guys; you got me. At first I totally thought you were being straight and honest.

Also, loving Frank's take. "Knowing about things suck; just be chill and happy." Sometimes you wonder how a dude could be coming up with their takes, but then they just lay it out for ya! Definitely makes a lot more sense of most of Frank's comments.

Yurywrote:

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/hundreds-of-bodies-found-in-unmarked-graves-at-former-saskatchewan-residential-school
" A Saskatchewan First Nation says it has made the “horrific and shocking discovery” of hundreds of unmarked graves — many believed to be children — near a former residential school, with a total expected to be over three times higher than the 215 discovered recently in Kamloops, B.C., according to a source briefed on the file.

Leaders of the Cowessess First Nation, a roughly two hour drive east of Regina, are expected to reveal details of the macabre discovery near what was once the Marieval Indian Residential School during a press conference Thursday morning, as well as the latest count of newly-identified remains."

I am not sure I can 100% trust a report with such lack of details.

The reported figure is now 751:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57592243

FrankPS wrote:

You really have a vendetta against the Catholic Church. Seems like it is messing with your serenity!

There are many atrocities out there. We can't take them personally or we'd never enjoy life. Let it go, Grasshopper.

It's not personal, a wise man once said "Those who forget history are doomed to something something." Darn....How did it go?

petzl logicwrote:

The reported figure is now 751:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57592243

It's not personal, a wise man once said "Those who forget history are doomed to something something." Darn....How did it go?

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat themselves constantly?

petzl logicwrote:

The reported figure is now 751:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57592243

They are not bold enough.  997 deaths would have looked even better. :(

"It has not yet been determined if all the unmarked graves belong to children, Chief Delorme said. Technical teams will now work to provide a verified number and identify the remains, he said."
So they actually do not know what's inside these graves and how many of them are there.

I want to see result of actual exhumation and review of the cemetery records.

I apologize if my desire to see verified information offended anybody.

You can bet that if some entity came around and killed off a bunch of older white men Frank would never forget. 

Yurywrote:

They are not bold enough.  997 deaths would have looked even better. :(

"It has not yet been determined if all the unmarked graves belong to children, Chief Delorme said. Technical teams will now work to provide a verified number and identify the remains, he said."
So they actually do not know what's inside these graves and how many of them are there.

I want to see result of actual exhumation and review of the cemetery records.

I apologize if my desire to see verified information offended anybody.

I sure hope you don't have a religious affiliation. 

B Pwrote:

You can bet that if some entity came around and killed off a bunch of older white men Frank would never forget. 

You don't even have to take it that far, just the mere suggestion that he's privileged is enough to make em wilt.

Yurywrote:

I apologize if my desire to see verified information offended anybody.

I am not offended but I do find it curious that you have consistently gone against:

- the official apology from 2008
- my labeling it a genocide after the first mass grave was discovered
- when the number of graves at the second school was estimated at 250 you thought it was way too high.
- when the preliminary exhumations came back with > 750 you doubled down sarcastically saying they should have picked a higher number

Doesn't that go against Stalin's million deaths are a statistic rhetoric, anyway?

Seriously, there are > 130 schools left, all populated by kids that were forcefully taken away from their parents in an attempt to destroy their language and culture. The conditions of those schools along with everything else completely destroyed the wellbeing of indigenous people in Canada contributing to broken homes, substance abuse, violence, and led to the conditions today in which indigenous women are far more likely to both be murdered and to have no suspects (or care) about the cases amongst other things.

I cannot for the life of me imagine the pain that ripples through the families that suffered this inhumanity.

What is it that bothers you so much about uncovering the past that has left indigenous people in Canada in such terrible shambles across the board when you personally have, I presume, nothing to do with it? I assure you I am not cheering on them finding additional fatalities, but I do applaud the efforts to find out the truth behind these deaths as well as the what was known about the physical and sexual abuse by the powers that be.

The only way past this is through it.

Yury wrote:

petzl logic, do you remember #metoo #trustallwomen campaign that was supported by #bigmedia and #bigtech?
It looked unstoppable until Joe Biden became a target.
Then within a week #trustallwomen was not a slogan of a day anymore.

This is just one example. If you have a good memory you can recall a few similar campaigns appearing out of nowhere.

Right now I see a similar campaign propagating like a wildfire and promoted by the same #bigmedia and #bigtech.
I also see that this campaign is not supported by numbers.
Do I need to explain why I am suspicious?

Again, this campaign has nothing to do with "uncovering the past".
Aboriginal situation in Canada is serious and it can't be resolved by propaganda campaigns like this.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/22/canada-church-fires-first-nation-reserves

You mentioned that "indigenous women are far more likely to be murdered" by indigenous men.
This is a totally separate topic and I do not believe that it should be a part of this discussion.

I cannot say I share your cynicism. Comparing a well researched and official conclusion of the Harper government in 2008 would be quite a stretch to compare to a few people tweeting angrily. And while skepticism can be a useful tool to prevent reaching a premature conclusion, in this case it seems more to do with your biases than anything else. For instance, I didn't suggest a culprit for the murder of the women, but you leap to the conclusion that it was indigenous men (and wrongfully attribute that to me). And even if it was their kin, does that make it acceptable that there is zero will on the effort of the police to solve the murders? So, so far without producing much for evidence besides an op-ed from the same paper that reported today's news you have denied the genocide, then questioned the numbers two or three times, stated that the kids were better off in schools, and then complained about something to do with Joe Biden I don't understand.

Do you think that this is better described as skepticism, bias, or maybe another word?

Since I have hit my post limit I'll take my answer off of the air. Thank you.

PWZwrote:

You don't even have to take it that far, just the mere suggestion that he's privileged is enough to make em wilt.

Don't be jealous of my "privilege." Only a select few of us are granted it.

Edit: I have hit my post limit, so I must bid you a fond adieu.

Yurywrote:

I apologize if my desire to see verified information offended anybody.

Lol, all the classics! The dude that doesn't "believe" in using the word genocide (even when confronted with the definition) also playing the "your feelings" card. I hope you're not at your post limit so you can hit the other standards, like "do your own research on YouTube," or "I've heard people are saying..." or "that's just what Bill Gates wants you to think!" Solid character work, my friend.  

There seems to be some confusion here about what frank said. Namely, there is a difference between forgetting things and letting things go.

petzl logicwrote:

What is it that bothers you so much about uncovering the past that has left indigenous people in Canada in such terrible shambles across the board when you personally have, I presume, nothing to do with it?

petzl logic, do you remember #metoo #trustallwomen campaign that was supported by #bigmedia and #bigtech?
It looked unstoppable until Joe Biden became a target.
Then within a week #trustallwomen was not a slogan of a day anymore.

This is just one example. If you have a good memory you can recall a few similar campaigns appearing out of nowhere.

Right now I see a similar campaign propagating like a wildfire and promoted by the same #bigmedia and #bigtech.
I also see that this campaign is not supported by numbers.
Do I need to explain why I am suspicious?

Again, this campaign has nothing to do with "uncovering the past".
Aboriginal situation in Canada is serious and it can't be resolved by propaganda campaigns like this.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/22/canada-church-fires-first-nation-reserves

You mentioned that "indigenous women are far more likely to be murdered" by indigenous men.
This is a totally separate topic and I do not believe that it should be a part of this discussion.

Yoda Jedi Knightwrote:

There seems to be some confusion here about what frank said. Namely, there is a difference between forgetting things and letting things go.

In some cases, but we are talking about genocide, not the last super bowl.

Go find a Jewish guy or gal and tell them to let the Holocaust go, and then tell them to forget it.
In that case, I don’t think they’re reaction will be very different.