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Issue with Online Proselytizing (Trigger Warning)

Yoda Jedi Knight · · Sandpoint, ID · Joined Apr 2019 · Points: 0
JonasMR wrote:

The Church is definitely still trying to be involved in all kinds of issues. While they did stop with the residential schools, they've still got lots of other repressive agendas to push. But agree with their stuff or not, they're still involved and the Pope has still refused to apologize for the residential schools. There is absolutely a time for getting over things, but it is after the guilty organizations apologize for the harm their old agendas caused and back off their current agendas, no?

Or, to use your analogy, what if the spouse stops hitting you in the face and just hits you elsewhere? Is it time to get over it?

My understanding was that apologies were given and these crimes are no longer being committed. If I'm mistaken, then I agree with you.

Not sure what you are saying about pushing agendas. Sounds a bit like culture war paranoia ;)

JonasMR · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 6
Yoda Jedi Knight wrote:

My understanding was that apologies were given and these crimes are no longer being committed. If I'm mistaken, then I agree with you.

Not sure what you are saying about pushing agendas. Sounds a bit like culture war paranoia ;)

Oh, you know I don't like them culture warriors. Even the ones with the fancy hats.

The Pope declined to offer an apology, the archbishopric of Canada did apologize. If I'm remembering it correctly. 

But also, many of the genocidal acts weren't crimes. They were backed by the full force of the government. Aside from the high-profile accusations of covering up kiddy diddling, I don't think the Church is accused of crimes for their actions now. Just like it wasn't accused of any crimes then. Not sure puts them morally in the clear (then or now), though.

Bill Lawry · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,814
JonasMR wrote:

There is absolutely a time for getting over things, but it is after the guilty organizations apologize for the harm their old agendas caused and back off their current agendas, no?

Yes.   And not just after an apology.

Rather, after taking a transparent step or two towards understanding what happened and, where problems are found, after making systematic changes to prevent recurrence.

Or given a history of intransigence, accept it can’t be fixed and dissolve.

Most could “let it go” when the outcome is either of the above two.

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276

Will you condemn Muslims for their atrocities with equal vehemence as you condemn Catholics?

JonasMR · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 6
FrankPS wrote:

Will you condemn Muslims for their atrocities with equal vehemence as you condemn Catholics?

Yes, obviously. I don't know who you think those people are that are all like, "hooray for 9-11!" All the religious folks have their baggage. 

This has been specifically covered in several posts on this thread. Are you forgetting to read before posting again?

Edit for snowcreek below:

Again, the individuals aren't being held responsible for anything. The organization that has not acknowledged or tried to make amends for their actions is. That distinction has also been covered by many many posts in this thread. 

PWZ · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 0
FrankPS wrote:

Will you condemn Muslims for their atrocities with equal vehemence as you condemn Catholics?

Personally, yes. Of course I'm not sure what that has to do with the current discussion given that there isn't exactly a history of North American political support, engagement, entwinement, and coverups with the Muslim faith. But carry on with your whataboutism.

Bill Lawry · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,814
FrankPS wrote:

Will you condemn Muslims for their atrocities with equal vehemence as you condemn Catholics?

I have yet to see Muslims proselytizing here.  Christians, yes. Muslims, no.  Still, I suspect my reaction would be the same.

Yeah, there are whackos in every organization. The trouble with ideologies like the ones you mentioned is that there is just One Way to Paradise, Only bad people aren’t following The Way, God is on the side of believers, and believers know God’s will in concrete ways.

And then we are at “the end justifies the means to get there”. What steps against that can any organization take from within? So it has and will lead to these kinds of atrocities and so these kinds of discussions.

It’d be no different if Muslims were proselytizing here, IMHO. Christianity is not that special .... except to believers in it.

Pierre de St Croix · · CT · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 0
FrankPS wrote:

Will you condemn Muslims for their atrocities with equal vehemence as you condemn Catholics?

Mainstream religions are simply popular cults!

Condemning any of them or anyone ain’t gonna cut it really! 

A renaissance in logic and empathy could!

Yury · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 0

Truth and Reconciliation Commission identified:
- 338 children who died in 14 Manitoba schools, names of 164 children are known;
- 556 children who died in Saskatchewan schools.

What s a likelihood that 751 children are buried on that particular cemetery in Saskatchewan?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/history-of-marieval-indian-residential-school-1.6078473
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-residential-school-deaths-children-names-1.6080678

petzl logic · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 730
Yury wrote:


What s a likelihood that 751 children are buried on that particular cemetery in Saskatchewan?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/history-of-marieval-indian-residential-school-1.6078473
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-residential-school-deaths-children-names-1.6080678

well, from the first article you link to it says the actual count is likely “far higher”. 

Yury · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 0
petzl logic wrote:

well, from the first article you link to it says the actual count is likely “far higher”.

Let's wait until the number of the graves is confirmed.

I doubt very much that the number is “far higher”.
It seems to me (based on available information) that most likely the number of  abandoned (by the church and by the tribes) graves on this particular cemetery is significantly lower than 751. 

PWZ · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 0

Let's wait, but it seems to me

JonasMR · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 6

Boy, I sure hope it turns out it's the good number of children that died, and not the bad number of dead children. Remind me again what the totally ok number of dead kids is?

I'm really enjoying the argument between Yury and Yury. I'm not sure if I'm with the one that thinks the Commission is nonsense and couldn't collect facts, or the one that thinks the Commission counted every last child that died. They both make really goo... well they both definitely make poi... they certainly both type on their keyboards. I hope Yury wins. 

Yury · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 0

According to Conrad Black:
"hysteria has been propagated about the discovery of unmarked graves at the Marieval cemetery in Saskatchewan, when It may include adults and people unconnected to the residential school. The Archdiocese told the Post that is has been made aware that there were grave markers at the cemetery that were removed in the 1960s. The widespread assumption that the graves were deliberately concealed are unfounded, and dramatic conclusions about the identity of the dead and manner of their deaths are, to say the least, premature."
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/conrad-black-centuries-of-failed-policy-does-not-equal-evil-intent

Yury · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 0
petzl logic wrote:

well, from the first article you link to it says the actual count is likely “far higher”. 

"Hoax confirmed: Excavation of Canada’s Native American “child mass graves” reveals zero bodies."

https://notthebee.com/article/hoax-confirmed-excavation-of-canadas-native-american-mass-graves-reveals-zero-bodies

John Tex · · Estes · Joined Mar 2013 · Points: 0
Yury wrote:

"Hoax confirmed: Excavation of Canada’s Native American “child mass graves” reveals zero bodies."

https://notthebee.com/article/hoax-confirmed-excavation-of-canadas-native-american-mass-graves-reveals-zero-bodies

They still diddle kids though. 

Yury · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 0
Jaren Watson wrote:

What conclusions are you drawing from this, Yury? 

Mountainproject haters, who were willingly retransmitting official government racist hate propaganda that was based on lies, are not willing to apologize.

Climbing Weasel · · Massachusetts · Joined May 2022 · Points: 0

We need a separation of church and sending. End of story. 

Li Hu · · Different places · Joined Jul 2022 · Points: 55
Doug S wrote:

An eternity of conscious torment.

Climbing hell: A climb that one can never redpoint, and you get bloody fingers, stiff joints and worse attempting to. But you're never injured so much that you can't climb.  

PWZ · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 0
Yury wrote:

government racist hate propaganda

You're precious. 

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