New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #16

Guy Keeseewrote:

Ha…. MP can try to change names they find offensive but I don’t think JT gb authors are going to go along with the new names.
We know the climbs by the real names. 

How about instead of redacting current route names we girls get out there and name a few of our own.  I think we could outdo any existing names... and fair is fair.    

Lori, I recall not wanting to fall for fear of blowing the onsight . Then not wanting to blow the second attempt…then not wanting my partner to “one up me”…then “ok I could get hurt” that would screw up the trip… to it really is about movement on rock and continuing to have fun.  Wanting to solve problems, figure out how to move and then accomplish a personal goal become part of the process.

Kristian Solemwrote:

There's another climb there, maybe just left of Runaway, called Run From Your Wife.   

Lol! That's a great pun on Run for your life! :-)

Lori Milaswrote:

How about instead of redacting current route names we girls get out there and name a few of our own.  I think we could outdo any existing names... and fair is fair.    

First, imagine climbing the route as a lead, or no rope, essentially. That's what "dangerous" implies, "don't fall". Second, people enjoy helping, and they can say yes or no. Guys (in general, sorry for the broad statement) don't angst over crap the way women often do, just my two cents. And....City of Rocks is getting slicker too. Starts, especially.

"Rude" route names?

The one I have in my pocket?

"You're overcooking the sperm again, dear".

Backstory, is a guy friend's frustration at not getting a pregnancy going with his wife. He was a bodybuilder type at the time, working out all the time....

Then a soak in the hot tub after. Oops! 

So? 

Overthinking a route, dithering about a decision, second guessing endlessly....

"Overcooking the sperm", pops into my head, ever since we first met, well, too often, especially in the earlier days as a climber.

His wife was expecting at last, when we met to get him on some Idaho rock (that first visit), and had breakfast ahead to suss each other out and wait for the light rain to subside. 

By the time she delivered, he was texting from delivery, the friendship was so close. BFF for sure.

Best, Helen

Guy Keeseewrote:

Ha…. MP can try to change names they find offensive but I don’t think JT gb authors are going to go along with the new names.
We know the climbs by the real names. 

You might notice that I have redacted the AAC logo (and my future membership) from my profile.

https://americanalpineclub.org/news/2021/4/12/the-american-alpine-club-launches-climb-united-initiative

Kristian Solemwrote:

You might notice that I have redacted the AAC logo (and my future membership) from my profile.

https://americanalpineclub.org/news/2021/4/12/the-american-alpine-club-launches-climb-united-initiative

I have "redacted" the AAC membership from my life, too.  Feels good.  They can keep their Climb United and I'll keep my $100/year.

dragonswrote:

Nice! Does someone lead and set up the TR?

I like the breakthrough music! I detected some editing. What are you using for edits?

No, there's 'bollards' at the top. We set up the TR with a static and steel biners and scramble down. 

I use Wondershare Filmora for editing the GoPro footage. It comes with some stock music. 

Erika- thanks for doing the work! It keeps us all safe. Keep it up.

Carl loved the video! Aussie choss looks a lot like California choss. But I was disappointed cause you guys were not eating vegmate sandwiches and swilling Fosters- my imagination has been changed.

Here is a video of fat Guyzo doing his best to look like a climber. ECHO is one of the most popular Santa Monica climbing spots. Note the “testing” of the holds- yea it’s tasty. 

I wandered across this- Jan and Andrew 

Lori- enjoy!

FrankPSwrote:

I have "redacted" the AAC membership from my life, too.  Feels good.  They can keep their Climb United and I'll keep my $100/year.

"The 2010 Outdoor Recreation Participation Report by The Outdoor Foundation, a non-profit organization, presents detailed information about American participation in outdoor activities and sports. The report, created with The Coleman Company, is an analysis of data collected for the Outdoor Recreation Participation Report, using 40,141 responses from Americans six and older in an on-line survey in early 2010 of 144 different activities. The survey is the largest participation survey about outdoor recreational activities and sports, with a breakdown by gender, age, ethnicity, income, education, and geographic region.

Overall 2009 participation in rock climbing, including bouldering, sport climbing, indoor climbing, traditional climbing, and mountaineering was 6,148,000 Americans or 2.7% of the population six years and older. It broke down to 4,313,000 participants in bouldering, sport climbing, and indoor climbing, and 1,835,000 in trad climbing and mountaineering."

From liveabout.com

 Let's give the poll a 50% margin of error.    3M climbers total,  over 900,000 in Trad and mountaineering alone.

AAC has 24,000 members. Who assigned them the task of renaming climbs? Where do they come off thinking they have the right? 

There are ways to deal with the most offensive names as individuals, on a local basis. And if someone is attached to the name of their route so be it. But the last thing we need is for some self-elected members of a club that represents a fraction of of the climbing community to come along and make new rules.

Guy Keeseewrote:

Erika- thanks for doing the work! It keeps us all safe. Keep it up.

Carl loved the video! Aussie choss looks a lot like California choss. But I was disappointed cause you guys were not eating vegmate sandwiches and swilling Fosters- my imagination has been changed.

Here is a video of fat Guyzo doing his best to look like a climber. ECHO is one of the most popular Santa Monica climbing spots. Note the “testing” of the holds- yea it’s tasty. 

Thanks Guy. So, NO-ONE drinks Fosters in Australia. Generally I drink German beer, or Cooper's Sparkling Ale or Cooper's stout. Both of those are very strong. However, lately I've been drinking anything over about 4.5% that is low carb. Vegemite is great on toast for breaky (breakfast) and also good with peanut butter. I hurt my elbow the day after the video and now it's completely fucked.
Cool music in your vid, Alice in Chains I think?

No doubt this post will need to be deleted. My blood boils, and I’m not even sure I have words.  I’M the hippie liberal tree-hugger in my family. I want to feed the poor and save the raptors... blah, blah. But I came here for some freedom, and for camaraderie and for the irreverent HUMOR among amazingly good people.

and I’ve made friends with some of the Trump Right here, and plenty of the underserved poor who have never even seen “the Monument” and they have been incredibly generous and loving.   But I’m not woke enough for the new generation of people who think it’s their business to school me, or other climbers, in “inclusiveness “ or being a good person. 

Tony thinks I’m becoming a Republican.  No. I’m just becoming reasonable, and reasonably pissed.  

Honest to god this is the first time in ages that I have felt I can breathe.  But I walked into the local bookstore that was sectioned off by topic: women’s rights, LGBTQ rights, atheist rights, a huge Black Lives Matter section... not a single non-lecturing book to read. These are all flags to wave to show your true colors ...  And I would not dare to mention the names of some routes I find hysterical.. 

And that’s just me. A white female. I can only imagine how this sits with male, lifelong climbers.  

I remember when we could see a zeppelin concert at 8 or 1am.  The 1 am was the better pick because it could go on til dawn. That’s when it was the Inglewood Forum.  Not a single commercial or sponsorship banner in sight.  Just great music that played on way past curfew.  Who decided they knew better what we needed? 

I don’t know what one has to do with the other but it does.  I’ve received more affirmation and acceptance from almost anyone but “liberals”.  

Lori Milaswrote:

No doubt this post will need to be deleted. My blood boils, and I’m not even sure I have words.  I’M the hippie liberal tree-hugger in my family. I want to feed the poor and save the raptors... blah, blah. But I came here for some freedom, and for camaraderie and for the irreverent HUMOR among amazingly good people.

and I’ve made friends with some of the Trump Right here, and plenty of the underserved poor who have never even seen “the Monument” and they have been incredibly generous and loving.   But I’m not woke enough for the new generation of people who think it’s their business to school me, or other climbers, in “inclusiveness “ or being a good person. 

Tony thinks I’m becoming a Republican.  No. I’m just becoming reasonable, and reasonably pissed.  

Honest to god this is the first time in ages that I have felt I can breathe.  But I walked into the local bookstore that was sectioned off by topic: women’s rights, LGBTQ rights, atheist rights, a huge Black Lives Matter section... not a single non-lecturing book to read. These are all flags to wave to show your true colors ...  And I would not dare to mention the names of some routes I find hysterical.. 

And that’s just me. A white female. I can only imagine how this sits with male, lifelong climbers.  

I remember when we could see a zeppelin concert at 8 or 1am.  The 1 am was the better pick because it could go on til dawn. That’s when it was the Inglewood Forum.  Not a single commercial or sponsorship banner in sight.  Just great music that played on way past curfew.  Who decided they knew better what we needed? 

I don’t know what one has to do with the other but it does.  I’ve received more affirmation and acceptance from almost anyone but “liberals”.  

Lori, congratulations! You've finally made the journey to being an old person!  A REAL old person is one who constantly rants at what's happening in the world, scowls at everyone, and wears clothes from just one decade (the one they got stuck in). I'm thinking 'El Camino' with Clint Eastwood as an example.  

The problem is, you're also a climber.  Climbers are a lot more forgiving, a lot more 'chill'. So half of you is wanting to take to the streets with an M60 Machine Gun like Michael Douglas in 'Falling Down' or Charles Bronson in Deathwish and the other half of you wants to make peace with everyone and accept that it takes all kinds to make a world.  

So, how do we address this issue? I prescribe some herb and a showing of 'The Song Remains the Same' (full concert) very loud, and with a double dose of whatever takes your fancy...

Signed, Doctor Carl

Lori, Tits Out For The Lads hasn't been redacted yet. Maybe there's hope.

Edit to add: Bikini Girls With Machine Guns.

Lori Milaswrote:

No doubt this post will need to be deleted. My blood boils, and I’m not even sure I have words.  I’M the hippie liberal tree-hugger in my family. I want to feed the poor and save the raptors... blah, blah. But I came here for some freedom, and for camaraderie and for the irreverent HUMOR among amazingly good people.

and I’ve made friends with some of the Trump Right here, and plenty of the underserved poor who have never even seen “the Monument” and they have been incredibly generous and loving.   But I’m not woke enough for the new generation of people who think it’s their business to school me, or other climbers, in “inclusiveness “ or being a good person. 

Tony thinks I’m becoming a Republican.  No. I’m just becoming reasonable, and reasonably pissed.  

Honest to god this is the first time in ages that I have felt I can breathe.  But I walked into the local bookstore that was sectioned off by topic: women’s rights, LGBTQ rights, atheist rights, a huge Black Lives Matter section... not a single non-lecturing book to read. These are all flags to wave to show your true colors ...  And I would not dare to mention the names of some routes I find hysterical.. 

And that’s just me. A white female. I can only imagine how this sits with male, lifelong climbers.  

I remember when we could see a zeppelin concert at 8 or 1am.  The 1 am was the better pick because it could go on til dawn. That’s when it was the Inglewood Forum.  Not a single commercial or sponsorship banner in sight.  Just great music that played on way past curfew.  Who decided they knew better what we needed? 

I don’t know what one has to do with the other but it does.  I’ve received more affirmation and acceptance from almost anyone but “liberals”.  

Wow. I have no words either.

Except. The upcoming generation gives me a lot of hope.

Lori Milaswrote:

No doubt this post will need to be deleted. My blood boils, and I’m not even sure I have words.  I’M the hippie liberal tree-hugger in my family. I want to feed the poor and save the raptors... blah, blah. But I came here for some freedom, and for camaraderie and for the irreverent HUMOR among amazingly good people.

and I’ve made friends with some of the Trump Right here, and plenty of the underserved poor who have never even seen “the Monument” and they have been incredibly generous and loving.   But I’m not woke enough for the new generation of people who think it’s their business to school me, or other climbers, in “inclusiveness “ or being a good person. 

Tony thinks I’m becoming a Republican.  No. I’m just becoming reasonable, and reasonably pissed.  

Honest to god this is the first time in ages that I have felt I can breathe.  But I walked into the local bookstore that was sectioned off by topic: women’s rights, LGBTQ rights, atheist rights, a huge Black Lives Matter section... not a single non-lecturing book to read. These are all flags to wave to show your true colors ...  And I would not dare to mention the names of some routes I find hysterical.. 

And that’s just me. A white female. I can only imagine how this sits with male, lifelong climbers.  

I remember when we could see a zeppelin concert at 8 or 1am.  The 1 am was the better pick because it could go on til dawn. That’s when it was the Inglewood Forum.  Not a single commercial or sponsorship banner in sight.  Just great music that played on way past curfew.  Who decided they knew better what we needed? 

I don’t know what one has to do with the other but it does.  I’ve received more affirmation and acceptance from almost anyone but “liberals”.  

That's a cool post, and there's a lot in there to unpack, as todays pundits like to say. I could dive in deep here. Not in any sort of hostile manner, my experience is similar to yours. But now I feel like my AAC rant has nudged this thread in the direction of politics in the bigger sense.

When I first arrived in Los Angeles I was an east coast climber; Gunks and Adirondacks. I started showing up at Stoney Point, met some climbers, including Jan, and soon enough got invited to a party at Bob Kamp's home. Wow. Bob, God bless him, was an iconic climber, respected and admired by all, loved by those who were fortunate enough to know him. The party was quite a gathering. Herb Laeger was there. I think Mike Jaffe. "Mad Dog" Jim Wilson, Jim Fulmis, of course Jan. Even Kamps was there.  

At some point I got into a polite chat about politics with I can't remember who. Bob got wind of it, and admonished us both.

"Never talk religion or politics with a friend. Why would you want to spoil a good relationship over crap like that."

I'm selective about who I'll talk politics with with. For example, in Jan's case it's off limits. And he doesn't even have to say it, so it never occurs to me as something we'd ever talk about. Keesee on the other hand...     

Tempted as I am, here and now I'm going to take the sage advice of Mr. Kamps.

We have a friday night music jam with a very diverse group of folks. we have a no politics rule. Even with that rule I am no longer friends with the tRumper...  

Carl Schneiderwrote:

I'm thinking 'El Camino' with Clint Eastwood as an example.  

Did you mean "Gran Torino"? :)

Kristian Solemwrote:

That's a cool post, and there's a lot in there to unpack, as todays pundits like to say. I could dive in deep here. Not in any sort of hostile manner, my experience is similar to yours. But now I feel like my AAC rant has nudged this thread in the direction of politics in the bigger sense.

When I first arrived in Los Angeles I was an east coast climber; Gunks and Adirondacks. I started showing up at Stoney Point, met some climbers, including Jan, and soon enough got invited to a party at Bob Kamp's home. Wow. Bob, God bless him, was an iconic climber, respected and admired by all, loved by those who were fortunate enough to know him. The party was quite a gathering. Herb Laeger was there. I think Mike Jaffe. "Mad Dog" Jim Wilson, Jim Fulmis, of course Jan. Even Kamps was there.  

At some point I got into a polite chat about politics with I can't remember who. Bob got wind of it, and admonished us both.

"Never talk religion or politics with a friend. Why would you want to spoil a good relationship over crap like that."

I'm selective about who I'll talk politics with with. For example, in Jan's case it's off limits. And he doesn't even have to say it, so it never occurs to me as something we'd ever talk about. Keesee on the other hand...     

Tempted as I am, here and now I'm going to take the sage advice of Mr. Kamps.

Kristian... thank you for writing. 

We could all talk about politics here, but you are right, we shouldn't.  Coming close to 17,000 posts here on this thread (wow)... what makes it sing to me are the stories and the personalities.  I've tried to be human and real here... more than I was probably comfortable with.   But as climbers, we have stories.  And when it comes to finding out how we came to our relative political positions, life-stories explain a lot. 

I was trying to figure out why I was so upset yesterday over this one small matter. (redacting names and reading the new policy on 'inclusiveness').  I can only think of the word 'fatigue'.  I'm just deeply tired, in my soul.  I've hit a saturation point.  

I used words (Republican/Democrat, Liberal etc) as shorthand.  It's really not about policy, or politics for me right now.  It's about needing a break from earnestness and weight.   

When my son died, after 15 long years of battling drug addiction with two of my kids, I always believed I would open a rehab.  I had already been through jails, probation and parole boards, ICU's and overdoses... lawyers and judges and therapists.  With all that knowledge, I should open a rehab because I could really do some good.  But it turns out I couldn't.  And I can't.  I will have to do something else, because I hit my limit with darkness and death.    

I spent 2 hours on the phone yesterday with my beautiful eldest daughter, who has 2 autistic twins.  She has just spent the COVID year indoors with them... and the resources they need, the amount of various therapies she is getting them, is mindblowing.  $500 per kid, per week, for 'swimming lessons'.  This is so that they can learn 'relationship boundaries' while swimming. That's $4k for that one thing.  She inspires me, and I'm so proud of her.  I wanted to ask her if she's had any time for romance lately... but I know she hasn't.  She hasn't been able to exercise.  She's just trying to hold it together.  I wish I could be there to carry some of this for her.  

But that conversation made me want to go to the local bookstore and find 'a book'.  Right now, 'a book' is not available there.  A trash romance.  Or maybe a climbing book.  

And the list of issues and problems that are ever-present in my life goes on.  But the one thing I can do, that I have energy for, is to grab a rope, a helmet and some shoes, and head out for some wilderness.  I have just enough energy to go scraping around for a chuckwalla, or to see if I can catch a roadrunner. (dont' worry, I can't).  I've been practicing Bob's talus-hopping (seeing if I can move across boulders).  This is the one place I can go where everyone smiles, where politics don't matter, where the most important thing is whether or not we have fun.  To take on the enormous task of making it 'inclusive', of being appropriately abashed at rude route names... right now, I can't.  (Wendy, if there really is such a route name, then there's hope. :-) )

Carl... great advice.  It's been a decade since I listened to the song "The Song Remains The Same".   I'll lose Tony for awhile and find a 'safe place' where I don't violate any 'relationship boundaries' and play it loud.     

PS. GUY.... I love this video!  I felt right there in the flow with you.  Thank you for posting it! 

Lori Milaswrote:

But that conversation made me want to go to the local bookstore and find 'a book'.  Right now, 'a book' is not available there.  A trash romance.  Or maybe a climbing book.  

There are plenty of great places to find books other than The Mincing Mockingbird or Coyote Corner. Check out Raven’s Bookshop, Sagebrush Press, Cactus Wren Book Exchange, Angel View, Joshua Springs Thrift Store, or even Wal-Mart if you really just want trash romance.