New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #16

Old lady Hwrote:

Ditto this one on Egg wall. There are two short routes (one set of anchors below the roof to the right) interspersed now with the earlier two routes. One to the left of this is very short. A teaching route, or an additional one for the Warrior's group?? So, not sure if this is Scrambled, Bacon something, or what. Oh, but there are now mussy hooks up top, on one, anyway! The shadow of the hooks is very large! New anchors are out of sight, but below the orange rock. Something run out, with bad "additional pro" (bad rock) is in here, too. Through the boulders, left of the orange, is what he tried. Not impressed, but the first one, once we went higher, was fun. Anything at City beats everything on my black basalt here, lol!

Thanks for the trip report, Helen - it looks like a great time!  I spent a 1/2 day at Egg Wall on my last trip out there.  We did Stage Left, Holy Moly, Hard Boiled, Eggstra Special and Scrambled - all fun routes with fun names.  The stuff in Hostess Gulley is all good too.  Honestly there are so many great routes out there at Castle.  Wish I could get back there!

Hi Helen,

The route in your photo from Egg Wall with all the bolts (first one skipped) is Bacon Slab - Duane Ackerman put it up. Duane is a good friend, but I have heartburn with the abundance of bolts (I skipped 1,3, and 5 when I did it) and the long chains and hooks in the other photo. The visual impact of all this hardware is exactly the sort of thing that drives the park manager to say there are enough routes, no more fixed hardware, or seek other limitations on climbing in the forthcoming climbing management plan for CIRO and Castles. Which is where Wallace is headed.

Locker wrote:

there is no longer a camp host and hasn't been for quite a while...

when they changed and tried to make it to a paid camping area people stopped going...

eventually they bailed on the idea altogether or at least this is what I've Been Told...

it's definitely better without a camp host...

camp host too often become control freaks...

no one likes a control freak...

That's good news, as we will probably be getting to New Jack sometime next season.

It was great to know that no matter how busy the campground, you could always find an unoccupied (if unofficial) site to throw down a tent and a table.

Occasionally needed ear plugs, but that's a small price to pay.

I would love to see non-climbers camp elsewhere and was thinking that charging to camp might help encourage that, but am also good camping for free :-) 

Honestly, Lori, that advice about climbing with people stronger than you is true for the average punter like me, who just climbs with his friends, and wouldn't even think of trying to get up something I have no business on.  It makes no sense - if I can't climb it, I can't climb it!

Your situation is a total 180 degree different one.  Maybe the persona you project here is different from reality, but it appears that you mostly climb with guides and very strong climbers.  They can "put the rope up" on things way beyond you, and/or coach you up things you'd never be able to work out on your own.  For your situation, I think better advice would be to spend more time:

"Climbing with people weaker than, or at the same strength as you."  That's the only way you'll ever learn anything about what you really can do, and then once you know that, you can begin to truly grow from there.

Just my opinion.

Cheers,

GO

Jay Goodwinwrote:

Hi Helen,

The route in your photo from Egg Wall with all the bolts (first one skipped) is Bacon Slab - Duane Ackerman put it up. Duane is a good friend, but I have heartburn with the abundance of bolts (I skipped 1,3, and 5 when I did it) and the long chains and hooks in the other photo. The visual impact of all this hardware is exactly the sort of thing that drives the park manager to say there are enough routes, no more fixed hardware, or seek other limitations on climbing in the forthcoming climbing management plan for CIRO and Castles. Which is where Wallace is headed.

Jay, the "long chains" with gigantic hooks are a shadow of the real thing, which is a normal length. 

Re the abundance of bolts? I agree.....ish. 

Except that there is now a very short route left of this, and anchors on the right, as someone has noted on the MP page. It's confusing right now, just which is which. However? This is such a short walk up around the corner from Warrior, that it could easily be two easy routes to add to those, for any Warrior events. That's my exception that makes this fine, to me, these four easy routes, in close proximity. 

We get 2, sometimes 3, routes per anchor, here at my local stuff. And, the next anchor is close enough we can run both ends of my 70 at the same time, if there's four of us! But, columnar black basalt is arete dihedral arete dihedral repeat repeat repeat.

Best, Helen

No climbing this weekend. our best local spot seen here from Isa's front porch is up there in the fresh snow. 

we did some trail work 

and went out for a rip. It was a bit exciteing getting through this section of 4th class rd. I walked it first. 

cooked a foraged dinner here

hiked to the terminus of the Long trail and stood with one foot in Canada and one in the US. 

Lori, Check out the post just back a bit by Todd Berlier. He's bouldering with Jonny Woodward. Take a look through your Josh guides looking for Woodward routes. I've done a few of his climbs. All I can say is eat your Wheaties and fasten your seat belt. I think he first one I did was a thing out in the Wonderland called Morality Test. Yikes! I should have figured out right then to steer clear of his stuff, but I'm a slow learner.

Jonny is one of the greats. And you can't find a nicer guy.

Todd. Cool story. Johnny is amazing to watch climb.

So you worked at BD? I had quite a few friends who worked there.
Did you know Peter Willkiney?

Come on Kris, that route is only a 'little necky'!

GabeOwrote:

Honestly, Lori, that advice about climbing with people stronger than you is true for the average punter like me, who just climbs with his friends, and wouldn't even think of trying to get up something I have no business on.  It makes no sense - if I can't climb it, I can't climb it!

Your situation is a total 180 degree different one.  Maybe the persona you project here is different from reality, but it appears that you mostly climb with guides and very strong climbers.  They can "put the rope up" on things way beyond you, and/or coach you up things you'd never be able to work out on your own.  For your situation, I think better advice would be to spend more time:

"Climbing with people weaker than, or at the same strength as you."  That's the only way you'll ever learn anything about what you really can do, and then once you know that, you can begin to truly grow from there.

Just my opinion.

Cheers,

GO

When I read that last para (which I read before the rest of the post) I thought 'what the fuck's he on about?' but when I read the rest and had a think it actually makes sense. Sometimes one needs to make their own road after a while. 

If anyone wants to know the route direction on Run For Your Life (Charles Cole, Dave Houser, Herb Laeger)  all you need to do is follow the trail of blood, all the way to the top, literally.     I gashed my ring finger on one of those 'pull down' crank edges at the start, and sprung a geyser which would not stop bleeding, no matter the chalk and pressure.  But what a gas... 

RFYL is possibly the first climb I actually enjoyed WHILE I was on it (Type 1 fun).  Crazy weather, howling wind, cold... up there on a ledge where I wasn't sure how to descend to pee, even... but the actual route was like it was just created for me, personally.  I had been waiting so long to climb it, and was nervous about everything.  In the nick of time Arno Ilgner's video on climbing showed up in my inbox, and I had time to listen and remember the spiritual and emotional qualities of climbing.  It was just exactly what I needed.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyR0YHZS0fY

The reminder to not pre-judge a climbing experience (with fear, anxiety, etc) but to wait until you are facing it, on it, and deciding in the moment what it really is. To get rid of the stories in my head, which were all frightening, and just do the climb.  I was surprised how easy the climbing was--I have worked hard to get here, but I always thank Bob.  It's been a lot of preparation to be able to even think about a route like this.  At any time if i got befuddled, if I looked around a bit, the perfect edge would show up.  I asked Zach for some coaching, which turned it into magic.  Now, next time, I think I would be ready to climb it clean.  

My goal going forward is to learn to stop groaning when I climb.     Those high step 'crank ups' take work, but do I have to grunt on every move?  It almost sounds like a 67 year old woman is climbing those rocks.  Wait a minute... it IS an old woman!!    

It was Nelson and Zach who set me up on this route yesterday, and enjoyed some climbing themselves.  Zach led up Runaway and now... oh, man!  What a gorgeous route.  Bob delivered another one.  I wonder if I could EVER climb that!  Just beautiful to watch... such delicate and precise footwork.  I am always a little bit smitten by that.  

This pretty much wraps up my 'season' of climbing here for the next few months. Like 4th of July fireworks, all the best came at the very end, one after the other. Chalk Up Another One, Billabond/Shovling-Cole, Dog Day Afternoon, and now Run For Your Life --all in the 10a-b range.  I want to take some time now and consider what is next, if anything.  I've had the thought lately "I could lead this..." mostly humorously, but could be the beginning of a new phase.  I really saw next October as the beginning of trying to learn how to break thru that 10c ceiling I have.  

---

Re. all the advice about what I 'should' be doing right now re. climbing.  I have to say this gently.  I refrain from giving advice because I don't know what others are experiencing.  This is such an individual thing that what looks plain as day to me is not right for someone else, or even possible.  And we give and swap a lot of information here--so it's only fair to expect advice.  But as much as I have shared about my own journey, there is much I have not shared.  I'm doing my best here, with enormous gratitude for all the help and gifts of training along the way.  I'm taking this day by day.  

PS. Quite a bit of conversation yesterday about "The Helmet".  Apparently, Bob has some routes there.  I am to ask about this. (?)

Lori? On MP forums? Anything anyone posts will have a huge number of replies, advice (asked for or not), and opinions (relevant or not). That's just how it is. At least these threads stay relatively civil.

What I learned way back, as a noob? 

Listening does not mean obedience. 

That's a lot of what climbing is anyway, picking your own way. 

I had a friend ask just yesterday, if I ever wanted to lead. The simple answer is that yes, I can lead. Do I want to? Not particularly. I truly enjoy plowing up the rock wherever I want. Sometimes? What I'm doing is likely harder than the route. It's certainly harder for me to climb, compared to average. 

I think we all share a deep appreciation for being able to do any of this, at all! 

Frontyard foraging ahead! I got Miner's Lettuce established, yay!

Bought some from the farmers market that had already gone to seed. Poured it out, and here it is!

Best, Helen

PS I am actually mowing today. Mark your calendars, lol!

EDIT to add: 

I know nothing about "The Helmet" routes, but I can report my climbing partner got a new style helmet, with full protection. He says it is very comfortable, and he's glad for the protection.

Old lady Hwrote:

Lori? On MP forums? Anything anyone posts will have a huge number of replies, advice (asked for or not), and opinions (relevant or not). That's just how it is. At least these threads stay relatively civil.

What I learned way back, as a noob? 

Listening does not mean obedience. 

That's a lot of what climbing is anyway, picking your own way. 

I had a friend ask just yesterday, if I ever wanted to lead. The simple answer is that yes, I can lead. Do I want to? Not particularly. I truly enjoy plowing up the rock wherever I want. Sometimes? What I'm doing is likely harder than the route. It's certainly harder for me to climb, compared to average. 

I think we all share a deep appreciation for being able to do any of this, at all! 

Frontyard foraging ahead! I got Miner's Lettuce established, yay!

Bought some from the farmers market that had already gone to seed. Poured it out, and here it is!

Best, Helen

PS I am actually mowing today. Mark your calendars, lol!

EDIT to add: 

I know nothing about "The Helmet" routes, but I can report my climbing partner got a new style helmet, with full protection. He says it is very comfortable, and he's glad for the protection.

So glad you’re mowing again!  Some things on this earth can be counted upon... your endless grass is one of them.  Hey! You might come here!  NO LAWN!

I made a decision early on that if I was going to participate here on MP (other than the occasional digression) it would have to be with some transparency and vulnerability.  I’ve really shown warts and all and sometimes later I just cringe.  But I’d loose interest just swapping tips about Scarpas vs Mocs. But there’s only so much I can share and only so much tolerance for the minutea of my life.  So... some wrong impressions can also occur.  

I appreciate everyone here.  It’s a great group. 

Locker wrote:

"RFYL is possibly the first climb I actually enjoyed WHILE I was on it"

speaks volumes

I guess I should clarify that.  I enjoy it ALL.  I've never had a really bad day on the rock and I always come home happy, even when the day sort of tanked.  However, I always work hard, sometimes at my limit... and that is just 'hard' for me.  For whatever reason, maybe I'm just getting stronger or a little better at this stuff... yesterday I enjoyed the whole journey.  I would not keep doing something I hated.

EDIT TO GABE:  

GabeOwrote:

Hey Lori,

Personally I absolutely cannot stand unsolicited beta.  So if my post came across that way (and I can understand how it might) I truly apologize.  I was trying to honestly answer a question you asked:

If my thoughts on the subject you asked about are not helpful, no problem.  I took you at your word that you wanted an answer to the above, and was trying to do so nicely and with no judgement.  But like OLH said, not every opinion is relevant to everyone, and no-one is going to make you do anything.  Perhaps my situation is just so far removed from yours that it bears zero relevance, and I have nothing useful to add to your quest for understanding how this whole climbing thing works.  I guess that's for you to judge.

Glad you had a good season.

Cheers!

GO

Hey Gabe.  Thank you for that. I do really appreciate your thoughts on this.  I’m perhaps getting a little sensitive to so many suggestions about how I should be climbing and with whom, when I’ve already done plenty of hand-wringing over this on my own.  When I start to get defensive I know it’s time to back away and take a break.  

I’m really struck by just how much this is an individual journey.  And yes, I do a lot of second guessing myself when I’m out with an outstanding climber like Jeremy.  But I get over it.

It was very instructive to me that when Alex Honnolds mom came to stay a couple of weeks, two women who have had plenty of good coaching, we were still not prepared to head out, lead up anything we wanted to climb, set up anchors and climb.  That’s not a moral problem... just facts.  And we did climb together with some help and had a great time out there on the rock. 

Hey Lori,

Personally I absolutely cannot stand unsolicited beta.  So if my post came across that way (and I can understand how it might) I truly apologize.  I was trying to honestly answer a question you asked:

I'm having some questions about whether I have any business on these routes.  I wonder how you all treat days/routes that are completely over your head, way beyond your pay grade.  Is it true that this is how you learn?  Or is this how you piss off your patient belayer who wishes you would step down to something more reasonable?  Serious question.  

<snip>

I guess I'm asking... how do you choose your routes, and when is it rude to throttle up something that's really too hard to do alone?  

If my thoughts on the subject you asked about are not helpful, no problem.  I took you at your word that you wanted an answer to the above, and was trying to do so nicely and with no judgement.  But like OLH said, not every opinion is relevant to everyone, and no-one is going to make you do anything.  Perhaps my situation is just so far removed from yours that it bears zero relevance, and I have nothing useful to add to your quest for understanding how this whole climbing thing works.  I guess that's for you to judge.

Glad you had a good season.

Cheers!

GO

Agree with Locker.

Client vs Climber. Big difference.

forget about the grades. that 5.2 that you led will stick in your memory with much more satisfaction than the 10+ you follow.

Gotta say comments from Locker, Jay, and Nick ring true to me. I top-rope lots of routes these days, but when i stop leading anything I'll be putting my gear up for sale.

This is not a judgement on what you're doing, Lori - just my personal choice.

Jay Goodwinwrote:

Agree with Locker.

Client vs Climber. Big difference.

Gee, I always thought of the people I climb with as partners, friends....family. ;-)

I deleted my above post, sorry, that was peevish, but this felt pretty insulting to me personally. We're friends, and I'm sure it wasn't meant that way, still...

But, in my case?

I simply don't get the hardon for leads, or the satisfaction that most of you get. Why?

Because the "lead head" is always there. It has to be. All the time.

Just getting up and down approach trails is a risk. The next hand and foot placements have to be considered, always. 

Ditto climbing. Every. Single. Move.

I can and do lead, but rarely. I'll never be anyone's rope gun, ever, and that's just how it is. 

But? 

On top rope? Even single moves are a triumph. Climbing at all, is a triumph.

Hmmm? Can I pull off something like a heel hook there? Yeah, maybe that dyno will go....

Ice climbing!!!

Jay? First move, off the deck, on Rollercoaster....remember? I've got multiple challenges going. ;-)

Please just consider, that how it is for you, isn't how it is for everyone else.

I am as bold as I can be.

And, still able to walk without a cane, to prove it. 

For now.

Best, Helen

I totally get that and being a good second  is a valuable part of the team.  I just think that you ladies could have a few amazing days  now and then  on your own without a rope gun if you chose the right  objectives and that might translate into an incredible  memory.