New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #16

Another amazing day out today.  This is all Type 2 climbing for me at this point: it mostly gets good after it’s over.  And yet what a beautiful, stunning route and I hope I can go back and really learn some of these moves and get strong right where it counts.  I had no time to grab my red t-shirt... this was all a surprise.  

EDIT to add:  I'm having some questions about whether I have any business on these routes.  I wonder how you all treat days/routes that are completely over your head, way beyond your pay grade.  Is it true that this is how you learn?  Or is this how you piss off your patient belayer who wishes you would step down to something more reasonable?  Serious question.  

I just wanted to try it out.  I wanted to see what that rock felt like.  Then it seemed important to try that next move, which was a dinger.  I hung, rested, tried again over and over.  And then the next.  I just felt sorry for jeremy, who did not seem to mind at all... but had to coach me all the way.  There were holds and moves on that rock I have never experienced before. There was a step up that was forcing me to barn door... until he taught me how to flag my left leg to restore balance. Brand new!   It was literally all new. 

Towards the top there is a mantle move that was no way going to go.  Jer called up specific instructions about how to get a left foot up on a knob, and then pressing into the right wall behind me.  It felt so completely wrong, until suddenly I was upright and standing.  

I guess I'm asking... how do you choose your routes, and when is it rude to throttle up something that's really too hard to do alone?  

I'm not sufficiently familiar with JT ( presuming that's where the climb is). What is the route?

That's great news, John. Thanks for the update. My wife has a plate in her wrist as well. Glad to hear Jean's recovery is exemplary.

Alan Rubinwrote:

I'm not sufficiently familiar with JT ( presuming that's where the climb is). What is the route?

Dog Day Afternoon.   

Lori Milaswrote:

EDIT to add:  I'm having some questions about whether I have any business on these routes.  I wonder how you all treat days/routes that are completely over your head, way beyond your pay grade.  Is it true that this is how you learn?  Or is this how you piss off your patient belayer who wishes you would step down to something more reasonable?  Serious question.  

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I guess I'm asking... how do you choose your routes, and when is it rude to throttle up something that's really too hard to do alone?  

This is a legitimate question(s). 

While "working" a route is fairly acceptable/common on sport climbs, it is not so much on "trad" routes. There are several reasons for this. Two of these are concerns that I share as well.

1. Wear and Tear on the Route: It is entirely possible for inexperienced climbers to pull "out" not "down" on key holds, sometimes breaking them. Repeated poor footwork more quickly polishes holds and cause general wear and tear, equivalent to dozens or even hundreds of conventional ascents. 

2. Dominating a Climb. I have seen where a climber sets up a TR on a popular climb, so that a large group of others can thrash away at them for long periods of time (and see #1 above).  Small parties who want to climb the route in a conventional manner (leader leads, follower cleans, and they move on) either must endure long waits or not have an opportunity to get on the climb. 

As far as Lori, I really do not see either of these major concerns in her giving Dog Day Afternoon a try. The route is not notably more difficult than other routes she has done or attempted.  But, ultimately, I think for the traditional type of climbs at Josh, there is a lot to be said for climbing the largest percentage of routes below your or at your limit. 

Build the "base" and develop your skills where you can perfect them and execute them with precision. 

Getting on a trad route that is too far above your skill level isn't going to boost your technique, at all. 

But, yes, every once and while, it is good to test yourself on something a bit above your level.

As stated initially, climbing sport routes or in the gym often warrants a different approach.

^^^^  Poodles are People Too has suffered from overuse of this kind.

Lori, A mentor of mine told me that success breeds success. He also said that one of the most important things you do, as a climber, is to choose your routes wisely. For me that meant to do climbs that would challenge me, but that weren't so far over my head that I'd flail, and walk away disappointed. 

Lori, Good advice from Randy and Kristian. As far as pissing off your belayer, I think it depends on the particular belayer and you just need to talk it out. You also should be aware of other climbers lined up and waiting to get on the route. It even happens at the gym. I remember one climber from years ago who would spend what seemed an entire evening trying to lead a climb that was probably two letter grades above their limit. Clip and hang. Clip and hang. Rude and also nuts. For myself, I generally have a sense of when I'm making progress on a climb and when I'm just getting frustrated and exhausted. Sort of "I know it when I feel it." When I get to the point where I have to take a hang after every move, that's a pretty sure sign that I'm done. 

Thank you, Randy, Kris and Wendy.  Your comments are helping me get some clarity on the situation.  

It is wonderful to step onto a route where it all looks familiar and I think "I got this". 

But the routes I attempted this week were all new to me, and I guess the word is 'confusing'.  I couldn't make sense of what they were asking of me.  

I felt a bit stressed on Shovling-Cole, but totally bewildered by Billabong.  I couldn't figure out the body-English required to get through a hard sideways smear, and the exposure scared me.  But now, having seen that route up close, I would love to go back, minus the fear, and work out the crux moves.  So I'm glad I did it.

Dog Day Afternoon was just SO unusual for me.  It didn't go like I saw it from the ground--there were pinches and side pulls and a scary mantle at the top.  I wanted to climb the face, Jeremy definitely saw it as moving off to the right.  When he did the below move, I said  "That's not gonna happen!"    He explained that in this position he was actually hands-free and could rest.  That STILL wasn't gonna happen, although I did my best.   Observing that heel hook, wow... I can see how helpful that would be.  

Maybe it was watching him so elegantly move up that rock... thinking about those of you who have climbed it 'dozens of times' that I felt pretty bad about not making it beautiful.  I did get to the top, I did learn the rudiments of some new moves...

Someone here (Kris, maybe?) said that to be a better climber you have to climb with people better than you.  But sometimes it's a little humiliating.  

That's great, Dwain!  How were the crowds at New Jack on a Saturday?  I climbed at Fairview with a friend who just moved here from the east coast and it was DESERTED!  I was fully expecting it to be crowded. That parking lot is normally packed on a weekend, but that lone Forrester in the distance is my car.  Perhaps the forecast for 85 degree temps and up to 50 mph winds scared people to go climb up high.  I thought it might be marginally OK in the shade on the north faces at Fairview, because the winds were coming from the southwest, and in fact the conditions were comfortable and lovely!  We managed to do 12 routes (they are pretty short) before we called it a day.

Funny story, when we arrived there was a party of three just coming down the Hillside trail, who approached us and told us they were leaving because they had just seen three big rattlers on the trail up near Tatooine, and they were aggressive and didn't move.  They packed up and went to New Jack to climb!  We went up that same trail, and obviously kept our eyes out but we did not see a rattler all day.

Hey Dwain! If you are still around tomorrow I'll be at New Jack with some friends. It'd be great to see you again.

lol

Locker's climbing?  OMG!

Locker wrote:

Almost every Campground was taken at new Jack and climbers were all around...

.

Are you saying there were empty sites on a weekend???

Well I've been continuing to do a lot of outdoor and indoor top roping and running laps or doing routes back to back. Tonight after a warm up on two 17s I did a 21 and lowered off that and with no rest at all (I didn't even touch the ground) got straight on the 18 next to it. Then I did a 19, two laps back to back. All those routes were on the overhanging wall. Then we had a break for some bouldering on the 45 degree wall and then I tried a 24. It was too hard for me but had some NICE moves at the start. Three days climbing with no rest means my bursitis isn't getting any better, because silly Carl is silly and doesn't look after himself properly... 

After looking back, Sasha and I agree it could have been a little less crowded at NJC, and the signal to noise ratio could have been better also.

Nice to read the drama club is still getting out here and there.

Nice to know there are always clowns around to ease the drama.

Locker wrote:

"Are you saying there were empty sites on a weekend???"

we left around 2 or 3, somewhere in that range and there were still a few sites left...

there was also a group of off-roaders with their huge motorhomes,  quads and little dune buggy things

they were not overly annoying and they did stay on the roads

but you do have to question their reading ability, considering the signs present

Isn't there a campground host these days?

If not, I'd expect a quick return to the wild west climber camping of recent years.

Which I actually thought was just fine, as long as fires were kept in official sites.

Dunno just what it is, but I more or less climbed it. We were only doing first pitches. Bigtime? Oh my gosh? 

Ditto this one on Egg wall. There are two short routes (one set of anchors below the roof to the right) interspersed now with the earlier two routes. One to the left of this is very short. A teaching route, or an additional one for the Warrior's group?? So, not sure if this is Scrambled, Bacon something, or what. Oh, but there are now mussy hooks up top, on one, anyway! The shadow of the hooks is very large! New anchors are out of sight, but below the orange rock. Something run out, with bad "additional pro" (bad rock) is in here, too. Through the boulders, left of the orange, is what he tried. Not impressed, but the first one, once we went higher, was fun. Anything at City beats everything on my black basalt here, lol!

Also climbed on Gallstone, that was...interesting. We were on it a bunch, last year, that's the only one of four outings where we actually were certain just what we were climbing, lol! Probably did pitch one of Fruit Pie, in Hostess Gully, and my partner did part of one we later realized can't be done with one rope, to the first anchor, if you intend to single pitch it. Oops. He bailed earlier anyway, when it got too run out coupled with not knowing where the bolts were, and bad rock for gear.

Fun stuff!

Big weather came through southern Idaho. We were done, and staying in the bunkhouse, so that worked out great!

Canal behind my house in Boise. Water is moving, so no big deal. Canal guys will have plenty of cleanup, I'm guessing. 

I really do need to mow, though. It's getting deep! We had so much rain right before I left, that new neighbors moved in! 

His gf is behind the pole. They usually stay along the canal. Dunno what they were thinking, milling around where the dogs and cats are.

No shoe cams, sorry. I didn't even take much for pics.

Best, Helen