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New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #15
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Well I'm back from my climbing trip early and after a couple of days rest I hit the climbing gym. Onsighted a 17 that I declared was a 15. Then onsighted another 17 that I declared was ALSO a 15. Then flashed a 21, whereupon my partner mentioned that maybe the 17s were indeed17s but I was maybe just feeling strong? Then cruised an 18 I'd done before and decided to follow it up with a 21 with no rest after the 18. Came off on the last hold. Tried a 22 but it felt like a 23. I'll work on that tomorrow... Feeling good after my trip |
Andrew Ricewrote: Lori, I think we all appreciate your enthusiasm for the climbing at Joshua Tree, and subsequent to that, the history of Joshua Tree, but I agree with Senor about the market/interest in such a book. Firstly, there are a lot of climbers who have a passion for climbing but little interest in the history of climbing. Secondly, even if you have an interest in climbing history, and as much a the climbing in JT is wonderful, there are probably more that 100 different climbing areas in the US alone that are equally destination climbing areas, each with their own great climbs, each with their own history. I am personally more passionate about climbing in Yosemite Valley, Tuolumne Meadows, the east side of the Sierra, Donner Summit and the Tahoe area, Red Rocks, City of Rocks, Smith Rocks, etc. If I lived in New England I'm sure I'd be passionate about the Gunks and the climbing around N Conway. If I lived in the mid-Atlantic, I'd be passionate about the New RG and the Red RG. If I lived in Colorado, OMG, there are untold areas to be passionate about there, the place is a climbing Mecca. I could go on and on - AZ, WY, WA, SD. Amazing places, amazing climbs, rich climbing history. They all deserve their own books, some of them have them. Question is who has the time, background and interest to write them, and who cares enough to read them? John Long is an excellent writer and he was there through all of these early years of development at Joshua Tree, Suicide, Yosemite Valley etc. So to feed your interest in the history, that book would be a good place to start. ( I myself haven't been interested enough to read his Stonemasters book, even though I do have enough interest to read stories he and others have published in the climbing mags!) Here is a link to stories that people told on Supertopo: http://www.supertopo.com/forumsearch.html?s=ratings&o=ASC&v=0&cur=235&ftr=stonemasters+largo Here's a little article that might interest you: landscape-of-belonging-joshua-trees-climbing-legacy There have also been good articles published in Climbing and Rock & Ice over the years. With a little digging, you could probably find those in the archives online. |
phylp phylpwrote: Hey Phylp... Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts on this. I really appreciate it. I’ve been thinking/mulling, too... and it’s not quite “soup” yet. One thing I was not aware of was how much Randy Vogel previously wrote and documented about Joshua Tree climbing and it seems if anyone was going to write more on this it should be him. It may already all be there. He’s the guy for this. I also understand that thorough interviews have been taking place with as many of the Joshua Tree climbers as possible for the purpose of putting together an exhibit and possibly more here. All of that information- gathering and history may already be in place and available in some form or other with more to come. When I ran my thoughts by Bob he thought I was hoping for a recollection of all the greatest climbers who set the bar here.. Bachar, Cosgrove... the Stonemasters who came here and made history (when they weren’t in Yosemite or elsewhere). I think all that has already been documented and besides that is wasaaay outside my knowledge. That would pretty much overlook all the other incredible climbers who also hung out here and put up classic routes even though they weren’t setting grade records. It would also exclude the new crowd since even my little buddy Jeremy hasn’t made much history here, with the grade bar now set so high. And yet he and his partners are incredible climbers! But that’s not at all what I had in mind. What I would hope to see probably wouldn’t interest many people and likely wouldn’t sell. I sure wasn’t thinking of money in my daydreaming but about capturing what was and STILL IS going on here in Josh... even the old timers who still live here and venture out occasionally onto rock, maybe even the new family groups that head out for the very first time... and old ladies who think they want to climb Run For Your Life. You know... “Joshua Tree Climbing” mostly history but bringing things right up to the minute. It has also to do for me with the loss of the spirit of the 60’s. It is so long gone but for a minute it was obviously here. I’m loving the stories that aren’t published anywhere. I was thinking about a favorite movie of mine Casino with DeNiro .. a great reconstruction of Las Vegas goings on when the mob ran things and Sinatra et al made it their hangout. The movie painted the picture, and then showed how all of that collapsed and a new ethic and flavor took over. I guess that has been also running through my mind. Not everyone was climbing 5.13 but everyone was making another kind of history that I wanted to hear about. Thanks for the links (I did have the first one) and the opportunity to explore this a little further. Appreciate it. |
Lori Milaswrote: The best books are about the storytelling more than the underlying facts of the book. Think Milagro Beanfield War. It's just about gentrification and a water war, but great story. Grapes of Wrath is just some poor people fleeing the Dust Bowl. To circle back to JL's books, IMO John's best writing isn't talking about the climbing itself but the feelings and personalities and relationships that happened around it. That's also why Kristian's and Rich's and Guy's stories resonate so much. |
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Water wars are the best topic. Think Chinatown. |
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Lori? The simplest answer? Your story is a good one, and so is this long series of threads. Personally, I think it would be worthy of a reel rock sorta film. The intersection of people on here is really great, imo! For JT specifically? Keep chatting with the people who are there, climbers and otherwise. Park service, local history buffs, etc. Remember the old buildings and salt flats that caught your attention? You should know by now that people who have wonderful stories are often disguised as run of the mill, stealth model, badasses, lol! Have fun! .............. I'm trying to get better organized for weight training at home. So I bought a bench. Go to put it together, it's just seven nuts and bolts total, easy, right? Wrong. The nuts will need a socket wrench to tighten. Okay, fine. Except my child absconded with everything of use when he left home. Sigh. Off to the nearby Fred Meyer to buy a socket set. 40 piece, 28 sockets. Good to go, right? Nope. Need the next largest size, past what's in the set. Sigh. Now it's a Lowe's trip next. Longer trip, more traffic, way more crowded. Or. Cheesecake. Kinda tempting to just shoot for being a normal old lady some days. But see, there's this damn climbing thing.... Best, Helen |
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JOHN WOLFE & BOB DOMINICK's guide 1979 edition to JOSHUA TREE has a historical miscellania section it's worth a read. |
Andrew Ricewrote: Those were all great! I got to sit across a picnic table from Jim Doninni at COR last summer . Great storyteller! Another trip there last year? Sitting in a living room of a COR local, who inexplicably (to me) decided we are friends...with the Urioste family, that he was hosting at his house. I chatted with the very charming George Urioste, and his son (in law? Not sure. Nice guy!). Then that September trip, meeting guidebook names, plus some of you! More stories! It's always the people, for me. And yes, we have some great storytellers here! Look forward to meeting more of you, and seeing my friends again, only 10 weeks! I won't exactly be ripped in ten weeks, oh well. Maybe I'll bring a cheesecake to share? Best, Helen |
phylp phylpwrote: Just want to add the link for what Phylp posted. Excellent article! TFPU, phylp! https://www.kcet.org/shows/artbound/landscape-of-belonging-joshua-trees-climbing-legacy |
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Lori- here is a story. Can’t really do that anymore because of all the development just outside the park! Another: The LEO’s were constantly transferring in and out, some were great some not so much. One of these guys pissed off one of our mutual friends by slapping a “dog off leash” ticket on him. To get even he wrote out a long tyrade about this LEO with his photo and very funny bio. This was posted on the inside of the doors of the bathrooms, for all to read. He never read it cause they never use the facilities in the park. |
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Guy, the "coasting into town" (or as you refer to it as "dead stick") was a "fun endeavor" in the 80s - when traffic was light, visitors few and before the building of the Ranger booth at the Park Entrance (no entry fees). You actually began near the Lizard Landing parking area (just where the road begins to descend). In addition to getting up to sufficient speed, you needed a car that handled well - to take the initial corners at high speed. Though others may have certainly accomplished the feat, Dan Leichtfuss successfully navigated this several time in his Porsche. And, as you point out, the "crux" was making it up the last uphill before the final drop into town. |
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This is a climb in the Hall of Horrors called Jane's Addiction:  Photo: Guy Keesee It brings to mind another Mayville-Suzuki tale. Hidetaka Suzuki and I were hanging out people watching in Hidden Valley Campground. By that point in the day climbing was the furthest thing from our minds. Then Dave Mayville rolled up. He was obviously excited about something, but then when was he not? "Guys, I just did a great new route someone put up in the Hall of Horrors. You have to come and check it out. Let’s go, we’re burning daylight!" So, we motored on over and followed Dave around back to the climb. It was short but looked steep and hard. Neither Hidetaka nor I were terribly anxious to get on it, so Dave went up first. While I belayed I watched his every move carefully. Then it was my turn. I was worried about one bit. Dave had thrown a long reach back under an overhang and palmed a roundish feature about the size of the top of your head. All I wanted to do was lay around soaking up rays, but what the hell. All but for that one move it didn't look too bad, and after all I had the beta. There was no way I could fall off in front of those two, so I didn't. Suzuki was a kind soul, but Mayville would've never let me live it down. It would have gone something like this: "Dude, I even showed you the beta! I can't imagine what would have happened if you went first. Good grief, that would have been a sight to see. And I thought you knew how to climb." This would have been followed by a smack on the back hard enough to leave a mark. By the time I did the walk off Hidetaka was standing there, shoes on but no harness, chalking up. I could see the wheels turning in his head. If these guys can do it, and especially if Kris gets it first try, it can't be very hard. He looked at me with a wry smile and a glint in his eyes. "I think I free solo.." He did Dave the courtesy of cleaning and returning his draws, showing him that same wry smile. Ever since then that's been one of my favorite short climbs in the Park. I got the thing ruthlessly wired and gave it a visit whenever I was in the neighborhood. That had to be around 1996 (mid-forties for me) judging by those particular Scarpa's. |
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Randy! Thanks for the clarification. I was able to do that in my MGB GT. |
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Helen. Everyone. Your forebearance in letting me write endlessly about this place is so wonderful. I know that every place has its stories. Every place has its special magic. If I did not live here I would be sick of hearing about it. Senor just said it... I could have saved some words by just saying “human”. I’m interested in the human aspects of the climbing scene here... the climbing itself, of course, but also what went on around the campfires. The car drive into town. The bets on who would peel off Toe Jam. I’d also like to hear the stories of first ascents. Who had the bright idea of creating the route EBGBs? Who said “Now there’s something to do!” and how long did it take and how many broken bones or belly flops? Who decides who leads and who follows. The story of flying over the Park looking for great rocks. Stories about the rangers. Dallas talked about Castle Builders and nomads. Well, as a nomad I’d be here and gone before I ever could poke around and ask big questions. So I guess that makes me a castle builder putting down roots. (Speaking of roots, has anyone ever tried to pull a FUCKING oleander? This isn’t going well.) Tahquitz, Red Rocks, Bishop, El Dorado, Gunks etc. are all as rich or richer. I hope the same curiosity and passion are going into recording those histories. |
Lori Milaswrote: Lori your the life of the thread. |
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Hey Lori: Thinking about books. Suggest you take a look at the "Red Rock Canyon Visitor Guide" by Tom Moulin. It covers History, Flora and Fauna, and Activities (including rock climbing). That type of book has potential appeal to a wide audience. That said, I don't know if such a book already exists for JT. |
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Here's my little tiny insignificant tick list from my Arapalis trip. As you can see we just did easy stuff. Trad still scares the shit out of me... You can tell that by the fact I can follow and TR an 18 and 19 but wail and cry and carry on on a grade 12! Holdup line, direct finish 15, led Long Bow, 10, led Serpent, 10, follow The Archbishop, 11, led D Minor, 14, led 2nd pitch Piccolo, 11, led The Bishop, 11, led Entertainer, 18, follow Sideshow, 19, TR Watchtower Chimney, 12, follow Piccolo (again because I love it) Diapason, 8, led 1st and 3rd pitches D Major, 10, led first pitch |
Guy Keeseewrote: Speaking of free-wheeling down to Joshua Tree… I met a woman in Hidden Valley Campground. She was a tough one, a geologist who spent her summers on survey ships out of Alaska and going up into the Arctic. So, after a few days climbing, she decided we needed to go down to Desperate Hot Springs. There was a resort down there which featured an outdoor area with four or five big hot tubs fed by the springs. There was a sequence from hot to hotter to hottest. The you’d jump in a cold swimming pool, pull a couple laps, and start over. So, we hopped in my little Porsche, and I commenced the dead-stick run. I spun it on frozen sand in the 35MPH curve Guy mentioned. We ended up facing uphill on the other side of the road. No big deal. But my passenger declared me disqualified and took the wheel. It was all good until she got a run going down the curvy stretch below Morongo. The one about two miles long with four lanes, a steel rail separating traffic, and no shoulders. OMG. At least when I biff’d it we weren’t going fast enough to get killed. I crossed my stars that I’d put a new set of wide Pirelli meats on the thing two weeks before. The hot tubs were great. Rejuvenating. Did I mention that she was travelling alone in a mid-size RV? |
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Along about here in these stories, I ponder... Are these guys actually scary? And, um, maybe that's not a minus? ;-) |
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I just started reading this book Hangdog Days which I think you will enjoy Lori, lots of history and some amusing Joshua Tree stories. The chapter I just finished features a great cameo from Russ acting a fool on Bearded Cabbage in tennis shoes. |
