How many cams did you take up El Cap?

Fail Fallingwrote:

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Couldn't be bothered to read 5 posts into the thread?

lol, I read the whole thread, but somehow skimmed past that sentence. mea culpa

I personally haven't done any big wall climbing yet, but the prospect fascinates me, so I try to soak up as many details as possible. OP, seek advice from users like Mark Hudon and Kevin DeWeese; they're up there constantly, and could fill reams with their wisdom.

Andrew Krajnikwrote:

Well, you have an upper bound of 40 cams for comfort. For a lower bound, here's the rack that Tommy and Alex used when they set the speed record on the Nose:

Adjust between these 2 bounds based on your abilities and comfort level.

The lower bound can actually be seen in this photo... :P

Ben Horowitzwrote:

The lower bound can actually be scene in this photo... :P

Fair point, the OP just specified "El Cap". It was I who assumed "The Nose".

Mark Hudonwrote:

I climbed El Cap several times and never took any! 

Hah, me too but made up for it with nearly 100 pins :P.

Since NIAD was mentioned on page 1, what do you all consider the ideal rack for that? What do the 12hr+ people carry? 

For the NIAD we carried doubles Blue TCU to #3 (triple #1's) and had a single grey, purple, green C3 and #4 camalot w/ a set of stoppers and 1 cam hook. We dropped the peenuts and a 0.5 early on so I can attest you can easily do the NIAD with one 0.5 camalot and no small nuts. Carrying triple #1's was crucial beta as the pitches above the great roof are predominantly thin hands sized cracks. We did it in 19.5 hours.

Doubles to 3, and a #4

As others have mentioned it totally depends on the route.  I have found that I tend to have 3 sets of regular cams from about a blue alien/green C3 size up to a 4 and whatever big gear the top recommends.  (for example on Zodiac the pitch above peanut ledge is wide for a long ways.  If you're aiding it you'll want 2 #4 2-3 #5 and a #6 camalot.). I also have 2 sets of offset cams and mostly offset nuts. I also have 2 black alien size cams. probably around 40 or so but like Kevin mentioned if you're climbing with all of it on your gear sling you're doing it wrong.  Another way to think about it is how hard is the climbing your doing and how much can you back clean? I.e. how many pieces will you clip over the course of the pitch.  Routes like the nose take really bomber gear so you can leapfrog cams and leave a piece every 10-15 feet. On the nose I would probably take a triple set with one set of the small stuff being offset. If the climbing is hard you will want to clip a lot more gear. On a pitch that is C3/A3 where a lot of placements are not going to withstand a big fall you might clip a piece every 5 feet if you can.  In a 150 ft pitch with a piece every five feet you'll place 30 pieces on the pitch.  On thin pitches you might need 4-5 in a size to have enough to get you to the anchor.  I don't have the Sloan book but I always found the Supertopo rack to be enough to do the route without excessive back cleaning and not using speed tactics and without too much free climbing (other than the mandatory free)

Niko Hawleywrote:

Thanks! Part of what got me thinking about this was watching the nose speed record.

Tom Evans photo below of Gobright and Reynolds rack for October 2017 Nose speed record:

Fail Fallingwrote:

 The second point is that you shouldn't leave the belay wearing the entire rack because this is going to slow you down and wear you out. Just take what you need to get through half of the pitch and call for more later. This won't take you more time because you'll get to the part of the pitch where to restock gear faster (and are more likily to freeclimb when you're wearing a lighter rack)

fair point but not entirely applicable if short fixing, no? As kevin M mentioned, working on systems saves the most time for us noobs... and short fixing saves in spades for easy free/aid routes.

as soon as I post this, I guess if your follower arrives quickly enough, they can tag up what they just cleaned on the excess from your short fixed line - though that also takes time - do you save enough time by leaving 12-15 cams to make stopping to tag up gear worth the time?  (I prefer to keep the tag in the follower pack and not waste time managing a second rope, but ymmv).

Christian Heschwrote:

fair point but not entirely applicable if short fixing, no? As kevin M mentioned, working on systems saves the most time for us noobs... and short fixing saves in spades for easy free/aid routes.

Completely applicable for shortfixing. Your second will have finished cleaning the previous pitch before you get to the point where you need to be restocked  via the tag line. 

We took 20 cams for one long day on The Nose; mostly totems and BD, no offsets. Singles of blue alien, #3 and #4. Triples of #1 and #2 but we fixed one of the #1s low down; it would have been useful on the upper dihedral pitches but we managed. Doubles of everything else.

Take lots of runners, one of the dark secrets of Nose speed climbing is how much fixed gear there is, often at very convenient points.

NIA long D rack and other beta for a 5.10+ leader. 

Terry Ewrote:

Tom Evans photo below of Gobright and Reynolds rack for October 2017 Nose speed record:

What ladders are those?

duncan...wrote:

We took 20 cams for one long day on The Nose; mostly totems and BD, no offsets. Singles of blue alien, #3 and #4. Triples of #1 and #2 but we fixed one of the #1s low down; it would have been useful on the upper dihedral pitches but we managed. Doubles of everything else.

Take lots of runners, one of the dark secrets of Nose speed climbing is how much fixed gear there is, often at very convenient points.

NIA long D rack and other beta for a 5.10+ leader. 

Tons of draws was also crucial for us. I think we brought 20 draws or thereabouts for climbing all the fixed stuff.

If I recall correctly, the NIAD rack my partner and I took was doubles BD 0.5-#4 (maybe a single #4?), something akin to heavy doubles below that--mix of C3s, offset X4s, totems, one or two hooks (whichever ones are the crucial ones), 16 draws, and an extra 0.75 (as opposed to the #1 recommended upthread). So 25 or so cams seemed to do it for us.

Speaking of a Nose rack...

A rack of the most advanced set of cams know to man (at the time).
1979

Kyle MacKrellwrote:

What ladders are those?

Potentially some model of Metolius’, like the alpine aiders? I know that Brad climbed in a red metolius harness, so maybe he liked/was sponsored by them?

Emilio Sosawrote:

Potentially some model of Metolius’, like the alpine aiders? I know that Brad climbed in a red metolius harness, so maybe he liked/was sponsored by them?

Those are the BD Alpine aiders. Metolius makes the pocket aiders as their alpine/light aid ladder.

Mark Hudonwrote:

Speaking of a Nose rack...

A rack of the most advanced set of cams know to man (at the time).
1979

Arguably way lighter than the rack most nose climbers lug up the wall these days!

There was far more fixed gear in the route back then.