How many cams did you take up El Cap?

Hey all,

I'm going to climb El Cap one day. It won't be soon, and I know I'm gonna die. Based on a couple of books I've read, (Higher Education by Kirkpatrick and Yosemite Big Walls by Sloan) it seems like the recommended rack is 40-something cams: something like triple X/Z4s, double C4s to #4 or 5, and double offsets. Me and my partner have about a dozen cams between us so far, and 40+ seems like a long way off (then again, so is my planned attempt in 2-3 years) So it got me curious how many cams you brought to climb the captain? Feel free to elaborate on the route, your rack, and your experience.

The Sloan book has recommended racks for all the big routes. 

There's a lot of variation on what people consider the necessary rack for a given wall. (Just like there's a lot of variation on what rack people want for a given free climb, right?)

That said, I find Sloan's rack recommendations off. Looking at his rack for the nose, for example, he's saying to bring 3-4 BD 0.5 sized cams, plus 1-2 offsets in that size. So, up to 6 cams in that size? Unrealistic. Carrying 40+ cams on your harness would blow. 

Back of the napkin math for the Nose: 

2x offsets from .2/.3 to .4/.5 + 1 of the smallest one (7 cams)
1x totems black-purple (4 cams)
3x BD cams .75-2 (9 cams)
2x BD cams 3-4 (4 cams)
Maaaybe: 1-2 more microcams, and 1 more set BD .3-2 (so, 8 more cams at most?)
So...24-32 cams. And this is assuming a fairly conservative and aid-intensive multi-day approach to the nose. Many NIAD teams bring a double to triple rack.

And yes, I realize that the max of my back of the napkin rack has 4 BD #.5 cams, the low end of Sloan's recommendation. I find that a lot of times the high end of what I would consider reasonable is the low end of Sloan's recommendations.

This is obviously just one quick estimation, and I'm looking forward to hearing why I'm totally wrong. But no, you don't necessarily need 40+ cams to climb el cap. 

3 sets of smaller cams (for me that’s usually 2 full sets of Totems and one set of Metolius Offset Mastercams) 

2 sets of Camalots from .5 to as big as you need.. 

this will give you 4-5 each in .5-1 (depends- Totems go bigger than Metolius) so you may end up dropping a piece or 2 (usually the BDs) but .5-1 tends to get used a ton..

Rebecca Anne Cwrote:

There's a lot of variation on what people consider the necessary rack for a given wall. (Just like there's a lot of variation on what rack people want for a given free climb, right?)

That said, I find Sloan's rack recommendations off. Looking at his rack for the nose, for example, he's saying to bring 3-4 BD 0.5 sized cams, plus 1-2 offsets in that size. So, up to 6 cams in that size? Unrealistic. Carrying 40+ cams on your harness would blow. 

Back of the napkin math for the Nose: 

2x offsets from .2/.3 to .4/.5 + 1 of the smallest one (7 cams)
1x totems black-purple (4 cams)
3x BD cams .75-2 (9 cams)
2x BD cams 3-4 (4 cams)
Maaaybe: 1-2 more microcams, and 1 more set BD .3-2 (so, 8 more cams at most?)
So...24-32 cams. And this is assuming a fairly conservative and aid-intensive multi-day approach to the nose. Many NIAD teams bring a double to triple rack.

And yes, I realize that the max of my back of the napkin rack has 4 BD #.5 cams, the low end of Sloan's recommendation. I find that a lot of times the high end of what I would consider reasonable is the low end of Sloan's recommendations.

This is obviously just one quick estimation, and I'm looking forward to hearing why I'm totally wrong. But no, you don't necessarily need 40+ cams to climb el cap. 

Thanks! Part of what got me thinking about this was watching the nose speed record. Obviously the rack they're using is ridiculously thin and relies on being an elite free climber with a very high risk tolerance, but there's a bit where they see another guy hiking to the base with a massive amount of gear that seems like it's meant for comic relief...but it looks like about the amount of gear commonly recommended. Your napkin rack is roughly the direction I'm currently heading: we have single X/Z4s, and double C4s to #3. Great for everything I've climbed so far, and I was expecting to spend the next year buying mainly offsets and totems, plus a few big cams. And obviously you don't carry every single cam on each pitch, but beta in Sloans book would lead me to carry most of it... just leaving behind the big gear. Can't imagine leading with 30 cams on my harness.

Andy Wiesnerwrote:

The Sloan book has recommended racks for all the big routes. 

Yep, that's the information I'm referencing for carrying 40+ cams.

Quinn Hatfieldwrote:

3 sets of smaller cams (for me that’s usually 2 full sets of Totems and one set of Metolius Offset Mastercams) 

2 sets of Camalots from .5 to as big as you need.. 

this will give you 4-5 each in .5-1 (depends- Totems go bigger than Metolius) so you may end up dropping a piece or 2 (usually the BDs) but .5-1 tends to get used a ton..

Right on, sounds like about the amount I was expecting. Seems like you're using totems to do some double duty as micros and offsets when compared to Sloans rack, is that correct? I've heard a lot a out the magic of Totems for placements that would normally require an offset, but I haven't had the chance to try them yet. Will be buying some by the fall season for sure.

Forget the gear for now, start climbing more cracks.  Start pulling on gear and learning to trust it.   The NIAD is a brutal undertaking for the first go and if you have little trad experience it will shut you down fast.  Start thinking about belay transitions, leading in blocks, how you are going to carry food and water because you will be up there a LONG time.   You need to start getting mileage in on the rock.   What long routes have you done? What is you timeline for preparing to do the NIAD?

Niko Hawleywrote:

Right on, sounds like about the amount I was expecting. Seems like you're using totems to do some double duty as micros and offsets when compared to Sloans rack, is that correct? I've heard a lot a out the magic of Totems for placements that would normally require an offset, but I haven't had the chance to try them yet. Will be buying some by the fall season for sure.

Totems deservedly get tons of love from the Big Wallers.. I totally agree- but for me, the Metolius Offset Mastercams edge them out slightly in a couple of very common flared pin-scar situations.. generally situations where both Totem or OMC would probably work.. 

I tend to leave Totems and walk Master Cams.. YMMV 

Andy Wiesnerwrote:

The Sloan book has recommended racks for all the big routes. 

Do not think about how many cams for El Cap. Think how many cams for the route I'm doing on El Cap. 

Every route topo will have a suggestion for what is needed on the rack. Usually that suggestion is for what will get you up comfortably. You can pair a rack down based upon your climbing style and your lead head, but generally one wants to have knowledge of the route before you start pairing the rack down. 

Niko Hawley wrote:

 but beta in Sloans book would lead me to carry most of it... just leaving behind the big gear. Can't imagine leading with 30 cams on my harness.

When you climb a bigwall, you'll have a tagline (or haul line) attached to you as you climb. You don't need to carry every single piece on your rack because you can call for anything else you need from your second to send up on the tagline at any time over the course of the pitch (or anytime before you pass the 30m mark on the pitch if you forgo the tagline and just carry the haul line) Thus, you usually start the pitch with what you think you'll need based upon eyeballing the parts of the pitch that you can see and then call for the rest later when needed. 

Logic 

I carry Metolius off sets too but mainly use Totems.  The downside of any off set compared to a totem is that it can only be used one way.  Lobes on off sets are either right or left facing and unless you carry one of each you can be screwed.   Totems are great because you can just flip it around if it doesn’t work one way.  Cant do that with a conventional off set cam.

Fail Fallingwrote:

Do not think about how many cams for El Cap. Think how many cams for the route I'm doing on El Cap. 

Every route topo will have a suggestion for what is needed on the rack. Usually that suggestion is for what will get you up comfortably. You can pair a rack down based upon your climbing style and your lead head, but generally one wants to have knowledge of the route before you start pairing the rack down. 

When you climb a bigwall, you'll have a tagline (or haul line) attached to you as you climb. You don't need to carry every single piece on your rack because you can call for anything else you need from your second to send up on the tagline at any time over the course of the pitch (or anytime before you pass the 30m mark on the pitch if you forgo the tagline and just carry the haul line) Thus, you usually start the pitch with what you think you'll need based upon eyeballing the parts of the pitch that you can see and then call for the rest later when needed. 

Lego Hater, good points!  You're making me less of a gumby ;-)
--
I was doing quick mental math, including nuts it isn't hard to quickly hit 40 pieces for a big wall route? Am I wrong?

Assuming, you do a 100' pitch and two gear anchors, you need a minimum of 16 pieces (assume 10' between each piece).  So 150' pitch is 21 pieces.  With big wall each pitch may require different cams (or triples).  So, if I'm following, you're suggesting 40 pieces is a "safe" (but not a rule of thumb) number after researching a route and not having done it before.  Just bring what you need for each pitch and use the tagline if necessary.

Gumby Kingwrote:

Lego Hater, good points!  You're making me less of a gumby ;-)
--
I was doing quick mental math, including nuts it isn't hard to quickly hit 40 pieces for a big wall route? Am I wrong?

Assuming, you do a 100' pitch and two gear anchors, you need a minimum of 16 pieces (assume 10' between each piece).  So 150' pitch is 21 pieces.  With big wall each pitch may require different cams (or triples).  So, if I'm following, you're suggesting 40 pieces is a "safe" (but not a rule of thumb) number after researching a route and not having done it before.  Just bring what you need for each pitch and use the tagline if necessary.

The important point is that the entire rack is listed to comfortably climb the route, not any individual pitch. The second point is that you shouldn't leave the belay wearing the entire rack because this is going to slow you down and wear you out. Just take what you need to get through half of the pitch and call for more later. This won't take you more time because you'll get to the part of the pitch where to restock gear faster (and are more likily to freeclimb when you're wearing a lighter rack)

I get this question often when I put up a route requiring 10 each of the 3 beak sizes, "you placed 30 beaks on a single pitch!?!" First of all, I wish. Second of all, no. Some pitches might need 15 #1 and #2 beaks and no #3 beaks, others might need 5 each of all three, some only #3 beaks, etc.  So if you bring all 30 beaks on every pitch then you're going to be weighed down quite a bit so you bring the entire rack for the climb but not for every pitch. Of course everything is different if you solo unless you're using a tag rack. 

Another thing to know about the rack is that unless it's for a trade route that has been done a bunch of times and the rack itself has been updated, the rack is what the FA party used, which doesn't always means it's the best rack. I've climbed obscurities where the arrow rack can be completely removed due to using camhooks and thin gear. Why didn't the FA party use these tools? Because it's a lot easier to use nonbomber placements when you know the climb goes, and it's a lot more committing to use nonbomber placements when you don't know what's coming up next. 

When I solo my FAs I climb heavy and so generally have triples of cams, a set of nuts, assorted heads, 10 each beaks, 5-10 arrows, and a few angles and blades. 

Fail Fallingwrote:

The important point is that the entire rack is listed to comfortably climb the route, not any individual pitch. The second point is that you shouldn't leave the belay wearing the entire rack because this is going to slow you down and wear you out. Just take what you need to get through half of the pitch and call for more later. This won't take you more time because you'll get to the part of the pitch where to restock gear faster (and are more likily to freeclimb when you're wearing a lighter rack)

I get this question often when I put up a route requiring 10 each of the 3 beak sizes, "you placed 30 beaks on a single pitch!?!" First of all, I wish. Second of all, no. Some pitches might need 15 #1 and #2 beaks and no #3 beaks, others might need 5 each of all three, some only #3 beaks, etc.  So if you bring all 30 beaks on every pitch then you're going to be weighed down quite a bit so you bring the entire rack for the climb but not for every pitch. Of course everything is different if you solo unless you're using a tag rack. 

Another thing to know about the rack is that unless it's for a trade route that has been done a bunch of times and the rack itself has been updated, the rack is what the FA party used, which doesn't always means it's the best rack. I've climbed obscurities where the arrow rack can be completely removed due to using camhooks and thin gear. Why didn't the FA party use these tools? Because it's a lot easier to use nonbomber placements when you know the climb goes, and it's a lot more committing to use nonbomber placements when you don't know what's coming up next. 

When I solo my FAs I climb heavy and so generally have triples of cams, a set of nuts, assorted heads, 10 each beaks, 5-10 arrows, and a few angles and blades. 

Thanks!

Rebecca Anne Cwrote:

There's a lot of variation on what people consider the necessary rack for a given wall. (Just like there's a lot of variation on what rack people want for a given free climb, right?)

That said, I find Sloan's rack recommendations off. Looking at his rack for the nose, for example, he's saying to bring 3-4 BD 0.5 sized cams, plus 1-2 offsets in that size. So, up to 6 cams in that size? Unrealistic. Carrying 40+ cams on your harness would blow. 

Back of the napkin math for the Nose: 

2x offsets from .2/.3 to .4/.5 + 1 of the smallest one (7 cams)
1x totems black-purple (4 cams)
3x BD cams .75-2 (9 cams)
2x BD cams 3-4 (4 cams)
Maaaybe: 1-2 more microcams, and 1 more set BD .3-2 (so, 8 more cams at most?)
So...24-32 cams. And this is assuming a fairly conservative and aid-intensive multi-day approach to the nose. Many NIAD teams bring a double to triple rack.

And yes, I realize that the max of my back of the napkin rack has 4 BD #.5 cams, the low end of Sloan's recommendation. I find that a lot of times the high end of what I would consider reasonable is the low end of Sloan's recommendations.

This is obviously just one quick estimation, and I'm looking forward to hearing why I'm totally wrong. But no, you don't necessarily need 40+ cams to climb el cap. 

Do you really think you'll need a double set offsets for the nose? have the offsets and a totems from black to purple. Do you think if I am most french freeing all of that will really be necessary?

Single set of cams and it's still too much gear. 40 Gu packets and a liter of water. Run the PDL and really go for it.

I climbed El Cap several times and never took any! 

Mark Westfallwrote:

Do you really think you'll need a double set offsets for the nose? have the offsets and a totems from black to purple. Do you think if I am most french freeing all of that will really be necessary?

Quick back of the napkin estimation of a rack. Probsbly don't need them! People take all sorts of combos of gear and get it done. I don't really remember what I took the last time. It's always a conversation with your partner. 

I was trying to illustrate that even with an estimated very conservative big rack, I wasn't counting to 40 - speaking to OP's question about the Sloan rack.  

Well, you have an upper bound of 40 cams for comfort. For a lower bound, here's the rack that Tommy and Alex used when they set the speed record on the Nose:

Adjust between these 2 bounds based on your abilities and comfort level.

Andrew Krajnikwrote:

Well, you have an upper bound of 40 cams for comfort. For a lower bound, here's the rack that Tommy and Alex used when they set the speed record on the Nose:

Adjust between these 2 bounds based on your abilities and comfort level.

...

Niko Hawley wrote:

Thanks! Part of what got me thinking about this was watching the nose speed record. Obviously the rack they're using is ridiculously thin and relies on being an elite free climber with a very high risk tolerance, but there's a bit where they see another guy hiking to the base with a massive amount of gear that seems like it's meant for comic relief...but it looks like about the amount of gear commonly recommended.

Couldn't be bothered to read 5 posts into the thread?