New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #14

dragonswrote:

Just wanted to add a different point of view here. I'm very surprised that your COBRA was less expensive than what you get on the marketplace. I went on COBRA a couple of times in my life. My employers always covered a really big chunk of the insurance (over 50%). So both times, when I did get onto COBRA - at a point when I'd lost employment and totally lost my income source - I was very alarmed at the monthly premiums. I'd be paying more than twice my usual premiums for insurance with just a small chunk of weekly unemployment income. My expenses were mostly being paid from savings at those times.

The last time I was offered COBRA, it would have been $600/month. I declined. I went onto private insurance and began paying $500/month (out of my savings), and yes, the deductible was $5000/year. This was prior to the ACA. I was just happy to get insurance of some kind. I avoid going to the doctor except in extreme circumstances. One year I spent about $1500 on medical expenses, but for the rest it was just paying premiums.

I'm now on ACA through the marketplace. The plan has a $6K/year deductible. But I only pay about $100/month because I'm subsidized. This is a huge savings for me compared to pre-ACA. It's also a huge relief to feel that pre-existing conditions are not a consideration. I'd rather the US have a single payer option like European countries, but I think the ACA was a huge step in the right direction.

So yeah I'm very surprised to hear how much more your marketplace costs are. Are things so different from state to state? I do have a relatively low income, which probably helps (I would rather be making more...), but I didn't think you were making much either. Not trying to pry, just suggesting that maybe you're paying for something you shouldn't be.

So, I don't remember the exact numbers, but even when I was employed, insurance for three adults cost just about the same as my pay check. I worked part time, so I had only a portion paid by my employer. That portion they paid, plus credits for health incentives, is the only reason I had a pay check at all.

Twenty five years ago, I bought my own insurance. Disaster insurance, high deductible. A separate deductible for pregnancy. My son was born in January. So two different years for the deductible. Plus, he was a separate insurance the instant he was born. Another deductible. That pregnancy was a year's income, out of pocket. I dropped that insurance on myself shortly after, when it exceeded my business mortgage on commercial property for the monthly payment. I had claims on it, you see. 

Yes, I am "low income", because neither SS nor the money I get from investments counts. The last angers me also, honestly, but I signed up because I believe in the thing in principle. 

So, to start out, this is on me. Down the road, it will be subsidized. This is how my tax guy and I decided to work it, for now. It's not yet clear how it will sort out, or if my income for the year will qualify. 

I just have two years to manage, then it's Medicare. 

The system is seriously broken, though, imo. Remember, my clientele for the last ten years I worked, was Homebound services for the library. Plenty of people on severely limited incomes. They had food, shelter, medical care and a tiny amount toward transportation. That was it. About $30/month for anything else. Think about it. 

Best, Helen

dragonswrote:

I thought I was the last person on earth who can't do a pull up. Can you do an underhand pull up? And how are you training for the overhand? I've started doing hangboard training a few times per week, since climbing is out for now. I'm using a counterweight - minus 25% of my bodyweight.

I cannot do an unassisted pullup.  The only time it has gotten in my way outside is going over roofs where I am unable to get a foot on anything underneath (due to my 5'4" height) and I'd have to pull up a ways to reach the next hold.  Sometimes I can aid through (usually use a sling to create a foot to stand in), but sometimes I have to back off.  Often if it's a single pitch route, I'll just take it off the list and not get on it at all.  It hasn't been enough of a barrier that I've ever had it as a training goal.  I do use a hangboard to train but I use bungees to support some of my weight.

I'm constantly perplexed by two things; The 'health care' system in America and those who can't do chinups   

I can book in to my doctor, often get an appointment on the same day, get referred for an ultrasound (within a few days) and pay nothing at all and I do NOT have private health insurance. 

Recently I did something like 140 chinups in a few hours, in sets of seven. I can do about 5 with an 8 kilo kettle bell hung from my waist. 

However, I can't hand jam for shit, wouldn't even guess how to shovel snow, and couldn't for the life of me make a pumpkin face thingy for halloweeen.

[EDIT] Make that three things... 

https://rockandice.com/climbing-news/access-fund-sues-to-block-americas-largest-loss-of-climbing-to-a-foreign-owned-mining-company/

BTW just joking about the chinups thing

Carl Schneiderwrote:

I'm constantly perplexed by two things; The 'health care' system in America and those who can't do chinups   

I can book in to my doctor, often get an appointment on the same day, get referred for an ultrasound (within a few days) and pay nothing at all and I do NOT have private health insurance. 

Recently I did something like 140 chinups in a few hours, in sets of seven. I can do about 5 with an 8 kilo kettle bell hung from my waist. 

However, I can't hand jam for shit, wouldn't even guess how to shovel snow, and couldn't for the life of me make a pumpkin face thingy for halloweeen.

[EDIT] Make that three things... 

https://rockandice.com/climbing-news/access-fund-sues-to-block-americas-largest-loss-of-climbing-to-a-foreign-owned-mining-company/

BTW just joking about the chinups thing

Carl, "health care" in America is like the tired joke about sport climbing. That it is neither...

About those pullups? I can match that 140. Just don't put a time limit on it. About half a year??

And?

I will have you know I once chopped down several trees and baked a cherry pie on the same day. 

I shovel shit, too. 

:-)

Old lady Hwrote:

Carl, "health care" in America is like the tired joke about sport climbing. That it is neither...

About those pullups? I can match that 140. Just don't put a time limit on it. About half a year??

And?

I will have you know I once chopped down several trees and baked a cherry pie on the same day. 

I shovel shit, too. 

:-)

Challenge accepted. I have a Silver Birch that needs to come down, and maybe a cherry and pear tree too. I'll have to buy the cherries for the cherry pie as the reason the cherry tree's being chopped is because the Wisteria killed it. 

I have four dogs so shit shoveling is par for the course. 

I think you're older than I am so you win that race... 

Carl Schneiderwrote:

I'm constantly perplexed by two things; The 'health care' system in America and those who can't do chinups   

I can book in to my doctor, often get an appointment on the same day, get referred for an ultrasound (within a few days) and pay nothing at all and I do NOT have private health insurance. 

Recently I did something like 140 chinups in a few hours, in sets of seven. I can do about 5 with an 8 kilo kettle bell hung from my waist. 

Health care in the US is somewhat dependent on where you live.  I'm in a small town, population about 4,000.  Hospital here services a large surrounding area and is currently being expanded.  Advance appointments are needed for routine/chronic care, but emergency/acute service is excellent.  I've been on Medicare for a few year and that insurance system works fine, but does require supplemental private insurance that costs US$160/month.

My pull up work out is 5 reps, six sets, 25lbs added (about 11 k), one minute between sets.   Do this 2-3 times/week.  5th rep is always hard!

After the wonderful and talented Doctors, who preformed an 8 hour spine surgery on me- sort of a new technology- I can now walk again. Tons of stretching and strength work lie ahead for me because of 5 years of atrophy to my butt, quads, calf, lower back and core muscles. The pull ups will come along in due time I reckon- when I could climb hard I could do between 10-15 at a go. Now 2 Max....... but their is now some hope for me.

Carl- that Oak Flat deal has been in the works for a long time- no matter what political party is in power. They sell most of the mining rights to foreigners with big cash bonuses for the “salesman” - been going on forever. The Clinton’s and friends sold off a big chunk of the US Uranium to the Russians- go figure.

I hope Tony is doing well!

Big storm coming- hopefully we get a week of rain and get back to normal rain fall amount. I fully intend to get back to the DomeLand wilderness. I have found out that the actual “smokestack” on Steamship Dome has never been climbed. We cannot go there unless the springs are flowing.

It’s exciting to have a reasonable climbing goal once more- I tore up my list of climbing goals 4 years ago when the doctors told me to start looking at walkers - “cause you’re going to need one” 

I hope everyone is well.

Idaho Bobwrote:

Health care in the US is somewhat dependent on where you live.  I'm in a small town, population about 4,000.  Hospital here services a large surrounding area and is currently being expanded.  Advance appointments are needed for routine/chronic care, but emergency/acute service is excellent.  I've been on Medicare for a few year and that insurance system works fine, but does require supplemental private insurance that costs US$160/month.

My pull up work out is 5 reps, six sets, 25lbs added (about 11 k), one minute between sets.   Do this 2-3 times/week.  5th rep is always hard!

Idaho, this is great news.  You can do pull ups for all of us.  Call it your contribution to the community.    

———

I’m parked out in front of Kaiser in a storm, having just dropped Tony off for his surgery.  Because of the storm all the lights are out in greater Sacramento and the hospital is operating on generators.  The surgery center is waiting to hear whether the surgery will go forward or will be rescheduled. If rescheduled “no idea when that might be”.  4 1/2 hours of scheduled surgery doesn’t sound easier than the last one.  We are in a hotel this time.  I’m not ready for this, but he just wants to ‘gitter done’.

Last night I saw a blizzard warning for Truckee, where my son Tim lives in a 5th wheel with his wife and 3 little girls—‘off the grid’’. “Extreme danger, winds up to 100mph, 3-6 feet of snow overnight. Warnings to stay put, do not leave, not get in a car. Travel near impossible or paralyzed. This is a life threatening situation. Also, avalanche warnings.”

And so I laid in bed all night taking turns worrying over Tony and my kids.  

Honestly, this is the honest truth, if I had known that children and husbands would die, do crazy dangerous shit, and cause so many days and nights clutching my rosary and praying for safety one more time, I would never have done this.  I wouldn’t have had children.  I could not bear one more piece of bad news, so my family and Tony just need to chill.  

————

After all this, I’ve been occupying my mind with thoughts of fitness and climbing.  I was wondering what specifically I would need to do to be able to safely climb in Tahquitz, and/or get to the Astrodome.  This one seems like a worthy goal even if I can never make it happen.  I had forgotten about the trail at Ryan’s that I could progressively walk/hike/run.  And, something a little easier for me is the Hidden Valley Loop... about a mile with some inclines, a couple of times would be a good start.  

Also, while I’m dreaming... I watched this video from Esther Smith’s Grassroots site and got fascinated by the trail running of her client.  I think maybe we can relearn a little bit of that playfulness and frolic of childhood running.  

Carl Schneiderwrote:

I'm constantly perplexed by two things; The 'health care' system in America and those who can't do chinups   

The most perplexing thing is that many Americans have been convinced we have the BEST health care system in the world. And that they're fortunate not to have to suffer with great healthcare like you in Australia and our neighbors in Canada have. Propaganda works.

My first born was born at Cedars Sinai in Los Angeles. A scheduled C-section. Even with our insurance our out of pocket costs came to about $12,000. My daughter was born 3 years later at Clinica Del Country in Bogotá, Colombia. I paid CASH for 9 months of pre-natal care and for another scheduled C-section and a luxury suite in the finest hospital in Colombia. Amazing doctors and amazing service. Total bill for all that? $2,500 USD. 

Andrew Ricewrote:

The most perplexing thing is that many Americans have been convinced we have the BEST health care system in the world. And that they're fortunate not to have to suffer with great healthcare like you in Australia and our neighbors in Canada have. Propaganda works.

My first born was born at Cedars Sinai in Los Angeles. A scheduled C-section. Even with our insurance our out of pocket costs came to about $12,000. My daughter was born 3 years later at Clinica Del Country in Bogotá, Colombia. I paid CASH for 9 months of pre-natal care and for another scheduled C-section and a luxury suite in the finest hospital in Colombia. Amazing doctors and amazing service. Total bill for all that? $2,500 USD. 

There's a difference between quality of health care and cost of healthcare. Depends upon your definition of "best." Sounds like you were happy with both.

Andrew Ricewrote:

The most perplexing thing is that many Americans have been convinced we have the BEST health care system in the world. And that they're fortunate not to have to suffer with great healthcare like you in Australia and our neighbors in Canada have. Propaganda works.

My first born was born at Cedars Sinai in Los Angeles. A scheduled C-section. Even with our insurance our out of pocket costs came to about $12,000. My daughter was born 3 years later at Clinica Del Country in Bogotá, Colombia. I paid CASH for 9 months of pre-natal care and for another scheduled C-section and a luxury suite in the finest hospital in Colombia. Amazing doctors and amazing service. Total bill for all that? $2,500 USD. 

Wow. Bailey, my grandson was diagnosed with bone cancer (Ewings Sarcoma) at age 4. He had 9 months of chemo. They also took out his humerus and replaced it with his fibula. Operation took about 12 hours. Of course there's all the related surgeries and treatments. Months in hospital. Best surgeons in the world. I honestly can't count how many. Bailey is now 13 years old. He still has checkups every few months, MRIs etc. 

All the treatment, other than some pain killers and other medications cost us nothing at all. 

FrankPSwrote:

There's a difference between quality of health care and cost of healthcare. Depends upon your definition of "best." Sounds like you were happy with both.

Well, yes. The quality of the healthcare in Colombia was actually superior to the same service provided in California. I wouldn't necessarily hold up the Colombian system as a role model for the world. I was clearly operating at the top of the economic heap and there's a real access to health care issue for the poor. But the fact that a developing country that was actually at war at the time can compete with one of the most prestigious US hospitals on both quality and cost speaks to how screwed up the US system is.

People think the US system is the "best" because we've developed moon-shot technologies for a lot of rare and devastating diseases and conditions. Sometimes that's great, ie. Pfizer developing this amazing COVID vaccine in record time. But there's a real breakdown where the rubber meets the road at just providing basic quality healthcare for most people for things like strep throat, diabetes, preventive care. etc. 

Andrew Ricewrote:

Well, yes. The quality of the healthcare in Colombia was actually superior to the same service provided in California. I wouldn't necessarily hold up the Colombian system as a role model for the world. I was clearly operating at the top of the economic heap and there's a real access to health care issue for the poor. But the fact that a developing country that was actually at war at the time can compete with one of the most prestigious US hospitals on both quality and cost speaks to how screwed up the US system is.

People think the US system is the "best" because we've developed moon-shot technologies for a lot of rare and devastating diseases and conditions. Sometimes that's great, ie. Pfizer developing this amazing COVID vaccine in record time. But there's a real breakdown where the rubber meets the road at just providing basic quality healthcare for most people for things like strep throat, diabetes, preventive care. etc. 

AND... my personal soap box: I went to pick up Tony’s prescriptions yesterday at the most efficient and packed Kaiser pharmacy, filled with hundreds of people. We dispense great pills. We have a pill for everything. And we do good surgeries. But not one of us has been asked “Do you exercise?” Or “What do you eat?” No one is asked about quality of life, isolation, amount of sleep or sunlight.

We do great pills and a doctors job is to thumb thru his mental PDR and pick the right one.  

And I’m still scratching my head that a large skin cancer on my nose has been healed by an OTC medication.  The surgery would easily have been $10k,  meds around $1k... so what’s the incentive to recommend what I used?  

Lori Milaswrote:

AND... my personal soap box: I went to pick up Tony’s prescriptions yesterday at the most efficient and packed Kaiser pharmacy, filled with hundreds of people. We dispense great pills. We have a pill for everything. And we do good surgeries. But not one of us has been asked “Do you exercise?” Or “What do you eat?” No one is asked about quality of life, isolation, amount of sleep or sunlight.

This, too. I remember going to an orthopedist in Colombia for some severe neck pain. He started the exam by asking me a bunch of questions about my life in general: "How is work going? How is your relationship with your wife? Are you sleeping well?" All holistic stuff. We talked for at least 20 minutes and then he said, "Do you mind if I examine your neck now?"

Also, after my daughter was born and we'd been at home a week we called the pediatrician to schedule her first baby appointment. I said, "When should we bring her in?"

The doctor was aghast. He said, "Andrew, you don't want to bring your newborn baby to my office. There are sick children here. What time would you like me to come to your house?" And when he did, he spent about a full hour with her and with us. 

That's real medicine. Oh, and you can get so many things OTC there that you need a prescription for in the US. Birth control pills, serious pain meds, etc. 

Seems like things have changed a lot since I was a kid, and not for the better. I think our family had something called "major medical insurance" (i.e., a large deductible) to cover the big stuff, but the small stuff wasn't so expensive. I recall our family doctor coming to our house late at night when my dad had a migraine and not charging him.

I'm not sure why people harbor the misconception that our medical care in the US is superior to the care available in other countries (as an excuse for the cost, unavailability and uneven distribution of medical care in the US).

It simply isn't true. There may some trade-offs, and as Senor Arroz correctly points out, it is often the rare disease, surgery or treatment ("moonshot") that the US can claim any superiority - and that is open to debate.

The populous has been fed a false narrative, generated by the Insurance industry, some in practice of Medicine, and certain politicians, that Universal Healthcare will be sub-par, more expensive, or it smacks of some dangerous "ism." 

Approximately 2/3s of personal bankruptcies in the US are tied to Medical debt. Shameful.

I think often there's a tendency to treat the symptoms rather than the disease or root cause. Primary health care (i.e. preventative health care) is lacking in some cultures too. 

Randywrote:

The populous has been fed a false narrative, generated by the Insurance industry, some in practice of Medicine, and certain politicians, that Universal Healthcare will be sub-par, more expensive, or it smacks of some dangerous "ism." 

Big pharma, too. As much as I'm in love with them at the moment for creating a COVID vaccine, Big Pharma does more to drive the profit-driven, pill-focused nature of US healthcare than anyone else. And the US laws encourage it. Same meds that are hundreds of dollars a month are $10-$15 a month in other countries.

How is everyone?  Is anyone climbing?

I’m having a barrage of thoughts this afternoon. Tony’s surgery went surprisingly well and nothing like the pain and blood of the last one. I think this may offer a huge opportunity for him to move forward in life.  We make a well-oiled surgical team... I’m doling out meds and watching stitches, he’s happily in la la land and healing.

With some time off I’m back having an afternoon cup of bone broth and I swear within two days aching joints and pain are gone. I don’t think that can really happen... but it seems to be true for me.  

I have never seen anyone mention pain in the big toe joints. It must be common among climbers, no? Or maybe specifically slab and edging climbers.  After a day of steep slab and edging my toe joints are toast. I’m looking for some solutions. 

I saw a picture of a neighbor building her raised beds with cinder blocks and it hit me like OF COURSE! That’s a brilliant idea! This I can do without lugging railroad ties and wood and digging ground. There’s the answer!

And I’m thinking about Poodle routes again. When I first started climbing in Josh I thought I would try to climb all Poodles and then quickly realized they were almost all way over my head.  Revisiting a couple Poodle descriptions this week I think maybe at least a few are doable now, or soon.  What about Poodles are People over on Hemingway?  It appears to be right on the edge of possibility for me.  Very cool.  

The cool thing about setting goals like the Houser and Poodle routes is I feel kinda Zen about them. I will work like heck to achieve those goals but I wouldn’t be distressed if it doesn’t work out. It is indeed the journey.

Guy, SO happy to hear your good news. I’m so happy for you... I know it must have seemed like it might not happen.  I hope you’re taking lots of pictures for us... let me know if you need coaching on the shoe-cam. The shoe-cam is my largest contribution to the climbing community...   

Lori Milaswrote:

And I’m thinking about Poodle routes again. When I first started climbing in Josh I thought I would try to climb all Poodles and then quickly realized they were almost all way over my head.  Revisiting a couple Poodle descriptions this week I think maybe at least a few are doable now, or soon.  What about Poodles are People over on Hemingway?  It appears to be right on the edge of possibility for me.  Very cool.  

Unless you suddenly decide to lead climb it I say give it a go. The bottom is tough finger crack but there are good feet. You could just treat it like a slab with bonus fingers. On TR I think you'll find it doable. And, if not, just swing a bit right or left and you've got some good 5.6-5.7 options.