New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #14

cassondra lwrote:

Lori, there is a very nice 5.6 splitter called Gargoyle on Zippy Rock in Pinto Basin area that you might like to check out. Just sayin’

Cassondra! Thank you!  I’ve been combing guidebooks and YouTube for a list of cracks here. Most start at 5.9 and SuperHeroes climb them. I need some for humans.  I haven’t been to Pinto Basin yet. Will check this out!!!   THANK YOU! 

Lori, you are most welcome. My friend Doug said Gargoyle is his favorite crack in the world, so when I went there with my friend Bud, I insisted we try it. I will definitely do it again if I have the opportunity.

Russ Walling wrote:

Lori, I’m glad you are not interested in leading.  Keep doing what you are doing and having fun.  The facts are a lead fall of nearly any distance that breaks something on you will probably be the end of you climbing, forever.  Them is the facts.  I know lots of people, way harder, tougher, younger etc than you who got hurt and were never the same. It does not take much to get screwed up pretty bad.  Be super careful doing what you are doing and enjoy it.  

This is great advice. I've heard people say "if you're not leading, you're not really climbing." Utter nonsense. Don't let anybody pressure you into leading.

The desire to lead should come from within, um, Grasshopper.

Lori Milaswrote:

Thank you Carl (and all).  I don’t know if I can explain my feelings on leading.  I get that every climber here places a huge premium on leading and measure their climbing skill on what they can lead.  I’m just not interested at this point. I’m open to that changing and I think it will one day.  

In one way I do consider the risk vs benefit of leading much the same as with bouldering. There have been very few boulders that have called to me so much that I was willing to break an ankle or leg for it.  If I REALLY loved bouldering I would take the risk. If I really felt the call to lead I’d be doing it. 

A few months ago I did take a rack and rope and mock led a route on Hemingway.  There have been some others I’ve led on a very loose mock lead. My overriding feeling was annoyance at having to stop and place gear every few feet.  I was worn out and irritated... not the response I expected!   

But also.. during this year I’ve entrusted myself to a few (mainly one) really excellent climbers.  They know what I want to climb and steadily we are working through the routes one by one. They see my weaknesses and strengths every time we go out. They know my diabetes, age and personality and it’s nice to have an objective assessment from someone I trust.  It’s pretty cool to hear “I think you’re ready for this route now.”  I like being pushed to my limit. I have not heard the words “I think you should be leading this.” 

I trust that. I also wouldn’t be surprised if I wake up one morning and decide it’s time to start leading.  I have NO IDEA where this goes. Clearly it’s different for each of us.  

You are right to think about risk/benefit.  It has become commonplace to speak of leading as if it is just another stage of learning, like improving from, say, 5.10 to 5.11. I hear people speaking that way in the gym all the time, and in subtle and not-so-subtle ways they pressure others to take that step, perhaps letting it be known that there is something diminished about you if you aren't leading.  That's all bullshit, but maybe hard to resist.  For well-bolted sport climbing, maybe leading isn't that much of a step.  As far as trad is concerned, the leader takes on a hell of a lot more risk and needs a boatload of new skills and mental strategies, so the transition should be understood as a major decision and not just some incremental step,

Is it true that "every climber here places a huge premium on leading and measure their climbing skill on what they can lead?"  Possibly, but that may be partially because BITD rock climbing on crags was viewed much more as a preparatory activity for bigger enterprises, where leading would, of course, be the only way to get up.  Everyone I knew when I started climbing had mountain, multipitch, and big wall objectives.  The entire enterprise, from the outset, selected people who viewed the risks as intrinsic to their aspirations, and who started leading, on easy ground, almost as soon as they started climbing, and 30, 40, 50, 60 years later, here we are.  But in case no one noticed, time has been marching on, and now we have more and more ways of enjoying the spectrum of physical challenges of climbing without needing to embrace most of the risks, and  some people now come to the sport for those physical challenges, without the perspective of absolutely needing to lead in order to get up things.

My advice? (Gotta channel Helen's style every now and then.)  Don't bother with leading unless or until your objectives drive you towards it.  Don't do it because you think you should or because someone told you that you're ready.  If a time comes when your desires turn toward multipitch experiences with others of similar abilities, if a time comes when you are willing to be scared and work with it, then it will be time to think about leading things.  Until then, there's a limitless supply of challenging and enjoyable things to do on a top rope.

Great advice given above - and certainly didn’t want to imply you should be leading or pressuring towards that. I was responding to a few comments Lori has made that expressed interest in leading - emphasizing that the dial moves WAY back from TR-ing at your limit. I would never disparage anyone for toproping - I definitely spend more time following than leading and am perfectly cool with that.

That being said, when I look back on my favorite days out or most memorable routes, they are usually days where I swing leads on something or pushed myself to lead something hard or scary for me. I had been climbing quite a few years before I ever attempted to lead. Everyone is different. The important thing is to love what you’re doing and not injure/kill yourself along the way! It’s only climbing. 

Lori may I suggest an edit? 

 "every (many? Some?) climbers here place a huge premium on leading and measure their climbing skill on what they can lead?"  

Some don't. I don't. I just was saying I may have just come to The realisation that if I move past unreasonable fear I'm probably more focused and climb smoother because I hate falling, so I'm even more focused on NOT falling... 

Russ Walling wrote:

Lori, I’m glad you are not interested in leading.  Keep doing what you are doing and having fun.  The facts are a lead fall of nearly any distance that breaks something on you will probably be the end of you climbing, forever.  Them is the facts.  I know lots of people, way harder, tougher, younger etc than you who got hurt and were never the same, or never got back to the sport. It does not take much to get screwed up pretty bad.  Be super careful doing what you are doing and enjoy it.  

Ask Bob sometime about how he saved my life as a belayer when I was leading and shit went wrong.  Not being able to touch my toes or look to the left for about a year is not something I’d recommend.  Once again, thanks Bob.  I think about it pretty often.  As an aside, a guy that was there and saw it basically quit climbing after the event!  Damn... it must have looked spectacular!

Russ.  I hope we get to meet one day.  Bob speaks so highly of you.  You kind of nailed it... at this age I do consider the consequences of a single fall whereas in earlier years it would have been no big deal.  I spent many years looking out for four kids, always trying to foresee whatever danger, and help them make 'wise decisions' while still having fun.  Now it's my turn to make wise decisions out there.    

Erika, you are such a strong climber--and it turns out, you were an athlete even before that!   "I had been climbing quite a few years before I ever attempted to lead."   That says it all.  Thank you for sharing this.  

Carl... I can still remember your posts when you first bought your rack, and apparently stayed up nights arranging and rearranging all your gear.  It's been really nice getting to follow you on your journey.  

rgold... thank you for posting what you have.  I believe you said something similar over a year ago that gave me new eyes here in Joshua Tree.  At the moment, a Big Wall is not on my horizon.  By comparison, routes here are short and sweet.  There is not a strong reason to lead, with the exception that there are many routes with no walk-on.  All that in good time.  

Guy said it will unfold organically.  Of this I am sure.  Each day there is a new thing to learn that I didn't know yesterday.  So I was thinking about Tony's go-for-broke attitude.  He says "Put it all out there, Lori. Don't pull anything back."  For me, I'm still learning what I can and cannot do on a rock.  I have to remind myself "It's ok. You have a rope here."  I could not give 1000% to learning this craft if I also knew I could fall at any moment.  

Last week I was looking at a series of moves on a route that I just knew would not work.  I was absolutely stuck and getting tired.  Bob finally said "Your feet are good. Make that next move!"  I shouted back "Blind faith!"  I did proceed despite everything telling me that I was in for a fall.  It was a beautiful crux, and it worked.  I'm just full of gratitude.  To think, what is considered 'old' and 'done' ... so many of you out there doing the nearly impossible.    

This here is my motivator.  Maybe it's prettier in a picture than it was in person but just WOW. (Bob Gaines pic, Peter Croft on Figures).  I have decided that what I cannot climb, I can always photograph.  I would happily tag along to document beautiful feats like this. 

#2 us a pencil...

To live is to struggle.  Fun part of being human is that we are self aware enough to choose some of those struggles. After we survive some of the struggles we didn't choose the ones we do choose become that much more satisfying. 

I love multi-pitch climbs. 

Dallas Rwrote:

I love multi-pitch climbs. 

Agree Dallas, I find nothing quite as satisfying as toping out on a long multi-pitch and relaxing in the setting sun.  But I've learned not to hang out too long.  On Crescent Moon Buttress in Las Ventanas de Mina Mexico we watched the sunset, got to the base just as darkness arrived, then had to walk out through the cactus in the dark with only one headlamp for the four of us.  We got the "point" that we should all carry a light!

Russ and rgold make excellent points (though having started climbing in the 1970s, I never viewed rock climbing as preparatory for anything other than climbing more rocks).

The inherent problem with leading most easier trad routes is the possibility of hitting things if you fall. As a general rule, the steeper and feature free the terrain, the cleaner and safer the fall.

In this regard, leading steep sport climbs can sometimes be a lower risk entry into leading -- but how you fall (it is a skill too), what you hit, and how you are belayed all factor into whether a fall is a "no big deal" or ends up with a serious injury. And, lets face it, as we get older, our bodies tend to not handle impacts as well as when we were young.

Frankly, you should feel no pressure to lead. Following and top-roping involve doing all the same moves, just without the same degree of risk (and potential mental distress).  

Since none of us are pushing the envelope on difficulty or into the unknown, we measure our accomplishments against ourselves. Sounds as though you have goals and are making progress toward achieving them - that is the real measure of success. If you find that someday, you have "ticked" the wish list of climbs you currently have compiled, there are literally thousands of new goals (climbs) to set for yourself.

Lori Milaswrote:

In the middle of the night I asked Tony "Why did I spend 40 years raising ungrateful children when I could have been crack climbing?"  It was a serious question.  He said "Lori, you played the hand you were dealt. Now you have a fresh hand.  Play it."  

The cycle of life is to go from wiping butt cracks to climbing rock cracks...

Thank you Randy. I’m getting my head together over this issue, finally.  I was out again today at the Heliodrome and can say I didn’t see ANY spot where I would want to take a fall.  The climbing was hard enough, no need to add a dangerous fall potential. 

A well-bolted sport climb does seem like a possibility. Maybe a few days at New Jack sometime... 

We have hit upon a plan that will allow me to see the face of Billabong up close and personal so I will know what I need to prep for.  We will be climbing Bat Crack up to an adjacent ledge and I can see what’s involved. From the ground it looks like sheer vertical rock. 

—-

Has anyone put their New Years Resolutions together? Got a to-do list for 2021?  What will everyone be climbing?  

Today! First day of winter!  (We need rain. )

Climbing photos tomorrow...

Got out early this morning. We'd planned on some leading but it rained last night and the crag we were headed to is in the shade so it would have been wet, so changed plans to TR a grade 19 (5.10a). My partner did it cleanly after a few goes. I did it cleanly about 10 times, sets of 2 back to back. 

On the way there I had to stop and carry a koala off the road. He was just sitting there dozing and wouldn't move... 

Today I put up 2 new 5.11s. If you had told me 10 yrs ago that I would be putting up routes at 55 I would have laughed in your face. Back then I owned a successful business and was stressed out 24/7, but never would have admitted it. I lost all that shit in 2011 and got humbled in the way I needed it at the time. When ya lose your business and your home at the same time you also lose weight. There I was broke and thin. A familiar feeling for a new reason. I started climbing again and it was like no time had passed. I was still a hippie tree hugging climber, but w a lot more experience and a shitload of  gratitude.

Jarrod Webbwrote:

Today I put up 2 new 5.11s. If you had told me 10 yrs ago that I would be putting up routes at 55 I would have laughed in your face. Back then I owned a successful business and was stressed out 24/7, but never would have admitted it. I lost all that shit in 2011 and got humbled in the way I needed it at the time. When ya lose your business and your home at the same time you also lose weight. There I was broke and thin. A familiar feeling for a new reason. I started climbing again and it was like no time had passed. I was still a hippie tree hugging climber, but w a lot more experience and a shitload of  gratitude.

I actually needed to hear this. Sometimes the worst thing that happens is the best thing that happens. 

Jarrod Webbwrote:

Today I put up 2 new 5.11s. If you had told me 10 yrs ago that I would be putting up routes at 55 I would have laughed in your face. Back then I owned a successful business and was stressed out 24/7, but never would have admitted it. I lost all that shit in 2011 and got humbled in the way I needed it at the time. When ya lose your business and your home at the same time you also lose weight. There I was broke and thin. A familiar feeling for a new reason. I started climbing again and it was like no time had passed. I was still a hippie tree hugging climber, but w a lot more experience and a shitload of  gratitude.

Really cool story. I'm always mindful of how one can go from a literal billionaire to a pauper in a very short space of time. 

Good on you for putting up new routes too!

Carl Schneiderwrote:

Got out early this morning. We'd planned on some leading but it rained last night and the crag we were headed to is in the shade so it would have been wet, so changed plans to TR a grade 19 (5.10a). My partner did it cleanly after a few goes. I did it cleanly about 10 times, sets of 2 back to back. 

On the way there I had to stop and carry a koala off the road. He was just sitting there dozing and wouldn't move... 

Carl, how do you carry a koala off the road? Just pick it up in your arms? Aren't they germy? They seem really benign and gentle, but those claws...

Jarrod Webbwrote:

Today I put up 2 new 5.11s. If you had told me 10 yrs ago that I would be putting up routes at 55 I would have laughed in your face. Back then I owned a successful business and was stressed out 24/7, but never would have admitted it. I lost all that shit in 2011 and got humbled in the way I needed it at the time. When ya lose your business and your home at the same time you also lose weight. There I was broke and thin. A familiar feeling for a new reason. I started climbing again and it was like no time had passed. I was still a hippie tree hugging climber, but w a lot more experience and a shitload of  gratitude.

Hey Jarrod. I was hoping you'd introduce yourself to us and tell us your story.  (tell more!)  

Maybe that's another part of the 'over 50' thing: we've all lost something big somewhere along the line, and now we have a couple of choices-quit on life, or go back and live large.  

So glad to meet another hippie tree-hugging climber.  Although I must say that here in Joshua Tree the trees are not friendly to hugging.  Everything is prickly.    

Hope you will share stories and pictures.  This is great! 

I was out with Chris yesterday and still thinking about the routes we climbed and the learning that takes place every time we go out.  Different rock, different weather to climb in, different features.  I thought I had a feel for grades, but on a given day a 5.8 feels like a 5.10.  It's coming down to hours logged on the rock--there are no shortcuts. 

But some days everything just flows, and yesterday was one of those days.  I wonder if it's the music?  (does this matter to anyone else?)  If I can sneak in a great song, ("quietly")... it adds an extra energy.  Yesterday, just as I was wearing out, I played Kentucky Woman by Deep Purple.  I was ready for another 2 hours of hard climbing.  More than that, great music adds some fearlessness.  

I think what's happening is over time I'm learning how to manage more kinds of rock, edges, vertical reaches and certainly to read the rocks better.  

The desert sun is becoming a real concern for me, not just for skin cancers, but for the glare off of rocks and damage to the eyes.  I've been researching for quite awhile... am adding a supplement containing Lycopene, Lutein, Zeaxanthin, Astaxanthin... along with more greens and salmon.    

"Lutein and zeaxanthin are members of the carotenoid family — a group of natural plant pigments that includes beta-carotene and lycopene. Lutein and zeaxanthin have identical chemical formulas and are isomers (they have slightly different molecular structures). They, along with a stereoisomer of zeaxanthin known as mesozeaxanthin, are the only carotenoids found in high concentration in the macula of the eye and surrounding retinal tissue, where they may protect the eye from damaging light. Lutein and zeaxanthin are available from a wide variety of foods and it is believed that meso-zeaxanthin is synthesized in the retina from lutein. However, most adults in the U.S. consume less lutein and zeaxanthin than the amount believed to lower the risk of macular degeneration. Consequently, dietary supplements are often used to increase lutein and zeaxanthin levels."