To Ban... or not to Ban Bolts!

can't have a confirmed A5 without a body

aid is soft

Keep the bolts fuck the rock. Sport climbin is fuckin cool. 

Cody Brownwrote:

Keep the bolts fuck the rock. Sport climbin is fuckin cool. 

I think that just about sums up the bolters argument. Thank you for your candor.

Tradibanwrote:

I think that just about sums up the bolters argument. Thank you for your candor.

+1

almostradwrote:

can't have a confirmed A5 without a body

aid is soft

https://publications.americanalpineclub.org/articles/12200213400 Soft? read this... you'd wish you were this soft

Mike Preisswrote:

https://publications.americanalpineclub.org/articles/12200213400 Soft? read this... you'd wish you were this soft

If being hard means having no friends or relationships I think I'll stay soft.

I've heard other stories of Beyer getting ripped off, must be bad luck or something.

Mike Preisswrote:

https://publications.americanalpineclub.org/articles/12200213400 Soft? read this... you'd wish you were this soft

Mt. Thor when you’re right next to Asgard?

Soft. 

M Mwrote:

If being hard means having no friends or relationships I think I'll stay soft.

I've heard other stories of Beyer getting ripped off, must be bad luck or something.

Not really referring to his character or mental state, just replying to the aid is soft comment

almostradwrote:

Mt. Thor when you’re right next to Asgard?

Soft. 

Have no idea what you are saying.

M Mwrote:

If being hard means having no friends or relationships I think I'll stay soft.

I've heard other stories of Beyer getting ripped off, must be bad luck or something.

I'm not sure if aid is soft but I am sure that aid is not climbing.

Aid is aid.

Cody Brownwrote:

Keep the bolts fuck the rock. Sport climbin is fuckin cool. 

Fuckin yeet 

I like this argument 

almostradwrote:

Mt. Thor when you’re right next to Asgard?

Soft. 

https://www.cntraveler.com/stories/2013-06-10/mount-thor-canada-maphead-ken-jennings You must be saying mount Thor is soft compared to Asgard. delusional. Thor has the steepest biggest wall on earth and when Beyer says it's a real grade IIV A5+ 5.10c then I believe. 

Tradibanwrote:

I'm not sure if aid is soft but I am sure that aid is not climbing.

Aid is aid.

Yep aid is just that aid but if any wall climber wants to go to the biggest baddest walls on earth and climb them then aid will have to be done at some point so you can call aid soft all you want but without the aid then many walls would never have been free climbed.  the free climbers can come later and rehearse the pitches, use the 1st ascent beta, use the pin scars(and probably add more bolts) to free climb it,  if it's not to cold for free climbing. El cap was only free climbed because of the aid climbers before them.

Mike Preisswrote:

Yep aid is just that aid but if any wall climber wants to go to the biggest baddest walls on earth and climb them then aid will have to be done at some point so you can call aid soft all you want but without the aid then many walls would never have been free climbed.  the free climbers can come later and rehearse the pitches, use the 1st ascent beta, use the pin scars(and probably add more bolts) to free climb it,  if it's not to cold for free climbing. El cap was only free climbed because of the aid climbers before them.

In a few cases the aiding of a route may have allowed that route to go free but I think that's an exception to the rule, and no matter how true all that may be it doesn't make aid legit climbing.

If someone's only goal is to get to the top by any means necessary then I think they miss the real point of climbing.

TC Pros are aid

Tradibanwrote:

In a few cases the aiding of a route may have allowed that route to go free but I think that's an exception to the rule, and no matter how true all that may be it doesn't make aid legit climbing.

If someone's only goal is to get to the top by any means necessary then I think they miss the real point of climbing.

Well this is where we part ways somewhat.....in a few cases?? pretty much all big wall free climbs had some or a lot of aid on the 1st ascent Trango Tower, El cap, Black canyon, liberty bell, half dome, Baffin Island,  ect... And YES of course when you set out to climb a big wall and spend all the money and time... your goal is to top out/summit!!  Obviously using  fair means and not ANY means, such as ground up(no rap bolting), using as much free climbing and as little CLEAN aid as possible (for the talent of the 1st ascent team) but virtually NO big wall in the world would have EVER been climbed without using aid and therefor NO big wall would have been free climbed. Maybe you are thinking of smaller walls/cliffs? of course aid is not climbing but without it forward progress would not happen.  

Mike Preisswrote:

Well this is where we part ways somewhat.....in a few cases?? pretty much all big wall free climbs had some or a lot of aid on the 1st ascent Trango Tower, El cap, Black canyon, liberty bell, half dome, Baffin Island,  ect... And YES of course when you set out to climb a big wall and spend all the money and time... your goal is to top out/summit!!  Obviously using  fair means and not ANY means, such as ground up(no rap bolting), using as much free climbing and as little CLEAN aid as possible (for the talent of the 1st ascent team) but virtually NO big wall in the world would have EVER been climbed without using aid and therefor NO big wall would have been free climbed. Maybe you are thinking of smaller walls/cliffs? of course aid is not climbing but without it forward progress would not happen.  

Just because they used aid on the FA doesn't mean that aid allowed the climb to be freed.

it would be narrow-minded to believe that no big wall would ever have been freed without aid.

I used to insist on getting to the top of whatever I was climbing but I realized long ago that's just human ego attempting to conquer the Earth.

Tradibanwrote:

Just because they used aid on the FA doesn't mean that aid allowed the climb to be freed.

it would be narrow-minded to believe that no big wall would ever have been freed without aid.

I used to insist on getting to the top of whatever I was climbing but I realized long ago that's just human ego attempting to conquer the Earth.

So what, you just toss the rope and bail now? Shame!

M Mwrote:

So what, you just toss the rope and bail now? Shame!

Yes. If there's mandatory aid the climb is done.

Tradibanwrote:

Yes. If there's mandatory aid the climb is done.

Rappelling off is aid down climbing.