Should I be more scared?

Spider Savagewrote:

Trad is simple.  You place the right piece in the spot it fits in.  You "set" it.  That is yank on it hard to make sure it doesn't pop right out.

I’d disagree here. There are accident reports out there of serious injuries from when someone yanked on a piece hard and it *did* pop out, and they lost their balance and fell.

In my experience, you can evaluate almost all placements by looking at them.

 ...you can evaluate almost all placements by looking at them.

Yer gonna die.

Not "setting" your placements, even cams, doesn't make any sense.  OP: Do not listen to this guy.  You will NOT fall and die from "setting" a piece.

Spider Savagewrote:

Yer gonna die.

Not "setting" your placements, even cams, doesn't make any sense.  OP: Do not listen to this guy.  You will NOT fall and die from "setting" a piece.

Unless you’re placing micro cams in rotten rock, why on earth would you set a cam?

You should read more accident reports.

Spider Savagewrote:

Yer gonna die.

Not "setting" your placements, even cams, doesn't make any sense.  OP: Do not listen to this guy.  You will NOT fall and die from "setting" a piece.

Especially nuts...You NEVER want to set a nut. Rule of thumb is to always just gently place it and hope for the best. Works every time if you don't fall.

I wasn’t clear before, nuts should always be set. Not sure why you would “set” a cam though.

John Sigmonwrote:

I wasn’t clear before, nuts should always be set. Not sure why you would “set” a cam though.

Have you ever climbed on gear on slick limestone or quartzite?

John Sigmonwrote:

I wasn’t clear before, nuts should always be set. Not sure why you would “set” a cam though.

I just had to give you some crap for it lol I always (like 100%) give my placements a tug, even if I know it looks good. I actually think it's a good habit to get into. I'm sure people have fell trying to yank real hard but I mean...How hard are you yanking and how shitty is your stance for that to actually happen? Regardless, do what you want. Tug it or don't.

csproulwrote:

Have you ever climbed on gear on slick limestone or quartzite?

Limestone no, that makes sense. Quartzite yes, but wouldn’t say it was “slick”

Thank you for (indirectly) answering my question.

I am still not convinced there is a need to waste energy going around setting every cam, unless the circumstances are extenuating- slick glassy rock, micro cams, rotten rock, etc.

John Sigmonwrote:

Limestone no, that makes sense. Quartzite yes, but wouldn’t say it was “slick”

Thank you for (indirectly) answering my question.

I am still not convinced there is a need to waste energy going around setting every cam, unless the circumstances are extenuating- slick glassy rock, micro cams, rotten rock, etc.

I’d say that’s a fair statement depending on where I’m climbing and how slick or flaired the placements are. Uniform parallel granite cracks...I don’t set them. Flaired  pin scars or slick rock, then sure I do it much more often. Some quartzite is pretty slick. Most of the stuff here in Carolina is not super slick, but Devil’s Lake OTOH.

All you guys who don't set your pro are gonna die.

By the way.  I have read every issue of Accidents in NA Mountaineering every year for 30 years.   I have no idea about all these people died and injured due to setting their pro.  

The number one reason I see people not setting pro is they are afraid it will get stuck and cost them money to buy a new one.  Which is also silly.  A. You life and limb are worth more than even the most expensive cam.  B. If it went in, it can come out.

Setting gear or not is like most other things placing gear - context dependant. I guess you could be overzealous and set everything hard. I set nuts mostly, and then only when there's reason to think it may move. Cams for the most part I see not need. The quality of the placement >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> setting it or not.

Spider Savagewrote:

If it went in, it can come out.

thats what she said 

You should be afraid. Fear can focus the mind and may keep you from going too far, too fast.

Keep leading; the fear will come back. And if not, maybe try ice climbing.  

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2771683409739594&id=1682342008673745&anchor_composer=false

Maybe not more scared, but super-aware of potential issues.  As a beginner, you don't know what you don't know.  Leading something you have already followed, where you have had the opportunity to know that you can climb something without falling, and where you have already seen that you can place ample gear, is a far different scenario from leading something onsight.  It is very beneficial to have a solid margin of error.  Good luck.

Spider Savagewrote:

Yer gonna die.

Not "setting" your placements, even cams, doesn't make any sense.  OP: Do not listen to this guy.  You will NOT fall and die from "setting" a piece.

 I had a partner set his first piece about 30 feet up and when he yanked on it it to set it and it popped and he hit the deck requiring a helicopter rescue.

june mwrote:

 I had a partner set his first piece about 30 feet up and when he yanked on it it to set it and it popped and he hit the deck requiring a helicopter rescue.

You could look at this two ways:

1. Don't yank or "set" check your placements
2. Know that the piece could pop when you yank test it and be prepared with a good stance, balance, etc.

I choose the latter.

I've been "trad" climbing for 43 years.  I get scared every time I go out.  I thought that was just normal.

FrankPSwrote:

You could look at this two ways:

1. Don't yank or "set" check your placements
2. Know that the piece could pop and be prepared for it with a good stance, balance, etc.

I choose the latter.

Agree with Frank.  The arguments against reasonably setting your pieces seem to amount to “its better to not know if it’ll hold, rather than yank it out and fall when it doesn’t hold”.... Ignorance is bliss I guess

I’d rather know ahead of time, and have less risk of it zippering or plain popping out when I move above it.  

I’ve never not been able to retrieve a piece. 

I admit I haven’t read every post (who has time for that) but one thing you should really think about is managing the rope as you are leading.

If you fall will the rope pull pieces down below your top piece out of a good placement? If so consider extension.

In trad more so than sport, there is a higher chance that the leader may step one of their legs in front of the rope.

NEVER leg the rope. I see new trad leaders do this a lot. It’s a great way to take an upside down lead fall and go head first in to a feature. Wear a helmet, always.  You should feel naked and slightly sketched out leading without your helmet  

I have lots of rules/maxims but here are my top three 

1. Your ability to climb trad terrain well is your first piece of protection(be a great climber on toprope)

2. You’re  not allowed to be scared(if you feel fear creeping in and you can’t get it under control you need to make an exit and you should already have figured  out your options before you enter the crux.) 

Be good at safely backing down. Every time I’ve done something dumb it’s been when I was totally gripped and didn’t back down soon enough.

3. Always keep two pieces of protection between you and the emergency department. (I didn’t coin this, read it on MP) 

10 years leading with plenty of close calls but no real incidents so far.

-Sam

I'm only one season into leading trad and had a similar mindset of not being scared when I was just getting started. I was mostly ticking off 5.6/5.7 routes to prepare for an SPI course, and figured I had a decent lead head. In hindsight, I think that was mostly confidence and a feeling of full control in 5.6 terrain. I was ushered into what my climbing partner called the new england trad ethic (I think it was just bullying quite frankly) of ground up projecting, so as I pushed grades a bit more I started putting onsight attempts onto routes I knew I wouldn't send, and that's when I started to get scared, and is where I am currently. 

It's worth noting that I'm still scared of sport falls, and am trying to develop that further. I also haven't done all too many R/X routes so I usually know when I'm safe whether or not I felt like it haha

Maybe that's how it'll go for you, just figured I'd throw in my 2 cents since I felt the same way you describe just a few months ago