New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #13

OLH... Thanks. It’s time to do garlic now. The tomatoes are done.
Maybe I started my onions to late, they got to be about 18” tall - it got “hot as hell” and no amount of water could stop them from drying up and falling over. The Farmers around here grow stuff year round. We have no winter to speak of, just short days, cooler weather and some rain.
H -Do you have sandy soil? I’ve read that onions, garlic, potatoes and other root vegetables need sandy light soil so the bulbs have room to grow. True?

Frank- we old folks never run out of interesting, cool and sometimes climbing related topics- so if you wish- join in. Don’t just toss mud at the window to see if it sticks like that Man child Burchey or tradiban does, it’s below you, I think. 

Bye all - time to go to Stoney.

Guy Keeseewrote:

OLH... Thanks. It’s time to do garlic now. The tomatoes are done.
Maybe I started my onions to late, they got to be about 18” tall - it got “hot as hell” and no amount of water could stop them from drying up and falling over. The Farmers around here grow stuff year round. We have no winter to speak of, just short days, cooler weather and some rain.
H -Do you have sandy soil? I’ve read that onions, garlic, potatoes and other root vegetables need sandy light soil so the bulbs have room to grow. True?

Frank- we old folks never run out of interesting, cool and sometimes climbing related topics- so if you wish- join in. Don’t just toss mud at the window to see if it sticks like that Man child Burchey or tradiban does, it’s below you, I think. 

Bye all - time to go to Stoney.

Guy! Have fun at Stoney!!

Naw, stuff isn't that picky. I've got clay. It is true that the spuds Idaho is famous for are grown in relatively sandy soil, but mine do good enough. The main sweet spot here, is the soil, plys the elevation. Avoids soil diseases, and, a heckuva lot of seed potatoes are grown here too, for that reason. Once the diseases get started, its much harder. Organic material added to any soil is always a plus, far as I know. Ph matters for scab and such, but again, mine do well enough (alkaline). 

You may be able to grow onions starting in the fall. Ask! The big sweet ones (Walla Walla types) are almost a year, for the days to maturity, even here. 

H.

Guy Keeseewrote:

What’s your question?
I gots lots of other things we can talk about.
Im personally wondering if anyone here knows how to grow Onions and Garlic? My last attempt- all the “tops” fell over and the Onions didn’t grow.

Or how about this Q Frank. What diarrhea meds do you use, when you have “days” like these? And can you still go climbing with absolute confidence after it takes effect?

Well, thankfully a number of years in the humanitarian world in less than ideal (or acceptable!) sanitary conditions have built up a pretty diarrhea-resistant immune system. Don't have kids, so I don't yet know if it kid-proof, but I don't have to worry too much on that front.

That and to be honest, I've grown somewhat skeptical of that kind of medications (e.g. that threat symptoms rather than the root cause). Really trying to stay out of that. Except Voltarin of course. Still a decade and a half before I can officially join, but not going to lie, I've learned over the past 2 years that I do need to treat my body a little more gently. Goes for climbing, running, etc...

Franck Veewrote:

Have you guys really maxed out 12 other topics? That's productivity right there!

Ha ha - we are all on the mature side, so sometimes we do repeat ourselves.... 

But yeah, pretty much no topic is off limits as long as we stay civil (which we do). 

Franck Veewrote:

Have you guys really maxed out 12 other topics? That's productivity right there!

We have a lot of ailments to discuss. Then there's the bone broth, mustard, what Lori should pack in her klettertasche, whether she should have a GPS chip implanted in her brain, how to cook lizards, the "poetry" and general whinging and complaining. 

Randywrote:

Contrary to some opinions, gadgets will only impede your ability to develop these skills of recognizing the terrain and features. It is fine to have them as "backups," but your own senses should be your primary means of navigation and learning.

There is no substitute, at an extensively-cataloged place like J-Tree where there is lots of visual information available, for for sitting with the guide book and identifying formations.    Gadgets cannot help you recognize complex terrain and features---or perhaps more accurately can only provide a some clues.  What they can do is give you your location on a map and tell you what direction certain things are in, even if those things are hidden from your current position, and they can do this in circumstances where it may be hard or impossible to use the visual clues.    If, even with lots of visual data, there is some uncertainty, the technology can often resolve the confusion.  Of course substituting a gadget for other more effective sources of information---when such sources are available---is wrong-headed and even possibly dangerous, and there is evidence that the lure of technology can lead people into that trap.  That argues for using technology intelligently, the way it was meant to be used, not condemning it as some sort of "obstacle" to competence.

GPS systems do not inevitably impede anyone's ability to develop skills. Mistakes can be made, as they can with a map and compass and a guide book with photos and number of fingers between the horizon and the sun.  I don't think knowing less is ever better than knowing more when there's a choice, and redundancy is just as important for navigation as it is for climbing protection.  The issue, for all these things, is not to think you know more than you actually do.

Franck Veewrote:

Well, thankfully a number of years in the humanitarian world in less than ideal (or acceptable!) sanitary conditions have built up a pretty diarrhea-resistant immune system. Don't have kids, so I don't yet know if it kid-proof, but I don't have to worry too much on that front.

So the treatment is to expose yourself to lots of diseases, and if you don't die, you're good for life? That's one approach... Nonsequitur about the kids, I didn't get it. To those of you with kids, do they give you diarrhea?

That and to be honest, I've grown somewhat skeptical of that kind of medications (e.g. that threat symptoms rather than the root cause). Really trying to stay out of that. Except Voltarin of course.

What are you taking that for (since you brought it up)?

Still a decade and a half before I can officially join, but not going to lie, I've learned over the past 2 years that I do need to treat my body a little more gently. Goes for climbing, running, etc...

You know what they say, sometimes our chronological age doesn't match our biological age. Perhaps you qualify. Welcome to the over-50 club!   

rgoldwrote:

There is no substitute, at an extensively-cataloged place like J-Tree where there is lots of visual information available, for for sitting with the guide book and identifying formations.    Gadgets cannot help you recognize complex terrain and features---

rgold, I have spent most of the summer (when here) doing just this.  I believe it's working.  I don't think it's either/or--only using electronics, or never using them.  But the day I decided to put all that away and just look around, things started to make sense.  Even so, the gadgets can be lifesaving.  So can all the other learnings you get from being in the environment day after day.  There's a little green plant that looks just like a fern.  I've gotten tangled up enough times in its thorns to finally realize to stay away from it.  There's another plant that looks just like poison oak, but it is not.  It's safe. Dallas' advice that for awhile everything looks like a snake is correct.  I've seen many stick snakes here.  But I also learned to leave my headphones off for the real ones.     

In my little video I actually got it all right.  I have perched up on the top of that rock formation (the Sentinel) enough times now to get the eagle's view and know where i am.  It's still a little confusing when I'm back on the ground, rumbling through shrubs and boulders, trying to get somewhere.  Also, identifying NSEW faces on some of these rocks gets a little confusing.  They are rarely facing exactly one direction.  I STILL can't figure out Cave Corridor rocks... they sit just cattywonkers enough that I don't know which one is the 'north' rock, etc. 

The Real Hidden Valley has been my schooling place.  It has some boundaries, and just enough for me to bite off without getting too lost.  I haven't even begun to cover all of the actual Park.   

My current question/curiosity is about 2 rock formations that I don't find in the guidebook.  Randy (and others) probably knows exactly what they are.  If I don't know the name, and I don't see them in a guidebook... what is the best way to identify these rocks?  Would coordinates help?  I would describe these as formations adjacent to the West Face of the Sentinel, before you get to Tumbling Rainbow formation.  There are canyons between these rocks.  There is chalk on these rocks, and some beautiful cracks... so I'm guessing there are routes.   I have tried different approaches to see if I can get to them, always get stopped by a boulder, or shrubs.  Will try again this morning... 

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I received Bob's new book, Toproping. Rock Climbing For the Outdoor Beginner.  From the first page I knew this was the book I've been waiting for.  I always try to suss out the skills I need to do what I want here and this just nails it.   The contents include:  

Face Climbing Techniques

Crack Climbing Techniques

Anchoring, Toprope Anchor Systems

Knots, Belaying and Lowering, Rappelling, Risk Management 

I think the title is a little misleading. Yea, it will be great for beginners, but it also patches in a lot of information for people (like me) who are not beginners, but who have limited experience in some areas such as building anchor systems, setting up rappels, identifying approaches, etc.  I'm pretty excited to be able to work through the chapters, right here in the Park.  

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The weather is changing here.  I have NO IDEA what happens next.     Does it rain?  I have wanted to build some raised beds... speaking of onions and garlic... but I probably need to talk to some folks around here who garden.  The growing season in Northern California is over until April.  We just pulled 25 oleander shrubs from this property... now I have to learn what, if anything, to replace them with.  I'd like to keep it to native plants.  My first project is to locate some of these, and plant them before spring. Chris and I found these in the Park while climbing last year. 

My oldest son knew Eddie for a time.  I was more of a fan than my son was... and I've watched from a distance.  Always smiling, crazy good guitarist, loved watching him perform. Will be listening to Eruption today, good and loud.  R.I.P.

dragonswrote:

So the treatment is to expose yourself to lots of diseases, and if you don't die, you're good for life? That's one approach... Nonsequitur about the kids, I didn't get it. To those of you with kids, do they give you diarrhea?

I don't know if exposures actually builds resistance, but after a few road-side close calls in the middle of nowhere during my first 2 years, I can't any diarrhea for like.... 5 or 6 years now.  Whereas I do have a few friends with new-ish kids (kindergarden ages and below) and seems every other weeks one's telling they or their wife had a bit of a run with it recently. Though I have to admit, I had ASSUMED it was the kids that were the source of the issue. Maybe it's actually their personal hygiene. I guess we should stop shaking hands.

Ah wait.... covid's got that covered. Well that's one good thing, I guess.

What are you taking that for (since you brought it up)?

Seems I just keep jumping from one issue the next this year (2020, what to expect I guess). Left shoulder impingement, so inflamation after climbing. This spring I was climbing ONE route each outing. Needless to say, I was choosing very deliberately. Although it did give more time to just hang out at the crag & chill, which wasn't all that bad. Then climber's elbow re-surfaced. Then back issues (running-related, but still impacts climbing). I'm on my third tube this year...

You know what they say, sometimes our chronological age doesn't match our biological age. Perhaps you qualify. Welcome to the over-50 club!   

Haha, yeah. Well hopefully it fluctuates & my biology accepts to slow it down a notch for a few years. All that being said, I'm overall pretty happy with my body. Yes I have a few ongoing/recent issues, but still when I compare to a lot of people my age, I still wouldn't switch for 1 millions $.

Lori Milaswrote:

My oldest son knew Eddie for a time.  I was more of a fan than my son was... and I've watched from a distance.  Always smiling, crazy good guitarist, loved watching him perform. Will be listening to Eruption today, good and loud.  R.I.P.

Sorry for you different losses there, Lori. And I just learned about the news anyway. Me gonna play some Van Halen while working today as well!

Russ Walling wrote:

That pic of the crag west of the Sentinel looks the top of Bikini Whale.  Access is via a sketchy downclimb on a ramp to the south, or walk all the way around the Sentinel to the north then back along the west face.  It is basically across from Illusion Dweller

THANK YOU.  

I went both ways this morning.  It's both beautiful and frustrating... a little frightening to be out wandering in these bottomless canyons.  Per Randy's guidance, I'm doing this without gadgets.  

After all the hiking around over the last few months, this morning I also concluded that this could only be Bikini Whale with exactly one route.   

It feels really good to have solved a mystery.  Thank you, Russ!  

SOMEONE got tired of hearing about Bikini Whale and sent me a video of this little hotty climbing it.     Thank you, John!  

One of the unexpected pleasures of learning to climb here is that what is old for the veterans is brand new for me.  I spent most of the summer trying to figure out this crag.  I know I could have asked around, but I wanted to figure it out myself.  

What I didn't expect was that Jeremy Schoenborn had climbed it already.  For reasons too many to mention, I've had a motherly affection for him, and we like each other.  I sent him a quick note yesterday, and sure enough, that was him.  He's currently in Kentucky, having a ball climbing hard.  So, we have a deal... he will accompany me to the base of Bikini Whale in November, and help me explore this rock.  Is this not some real synchronicity?

I have not yet found a 'cause' to get into in my retirement.  I'm still recovering from hard years of family life.  But if cheering on, supporting, helping youngsters like Jeremy (ok, I think he's 23 now??) if that qualifies as a cause, I'm all in.  

Nothing makes me happier than to see strong, healthy young people, killing it out there on the rock.  Having witnessed the deaths, suicides and terrible struggles of a whole tribe of young people in my family and extended family... if only they had had THIS.      Let's develop these relationships and keep them climbin'.  

I admit, just seeing all this hanging there in my hall doorway makes me smile. I think it's the "it's my house, I can do anything I want even if normal people wouldn't do that" thing.

But, yes, I know they should be more than decorative, so, Rock Rings 101, anyone? I'm assuming just hanging, to start. My hands just go over the top of them, clipped where they are, feet on the ground. Super easy to clip higher or lower, and I didn't even do anything with the cords yet. Seems good enough, as is? 

I said it earlier, but to repeat, my hands are small. Open grip will get me more than fingertips in all of the holes. 

Thanks so much! A nice gift, and thoughtful, too!

Helen

Old lady Hwrote:

I admit, just seeing all this hanging there in my hall doorway makes me smile. I think it's the "it's my house, I can do anything I want even if normal people wouldn't do that" thing.

But, yes, I know they should be more than decorative, so, Rock Rings 101, anyone? I'm assuming just hanging, to start. My hands just go over the top of them, clipped where they are, feet on the ground. Super easy to clip higher or lower, and I didn't even do anything with the cords yet. Seems good enough, as is? 

I said it earlier, but to repeat, my hands are small. Open grip will get me more than fingertips in all of the holes. 

Thanks so much! A nice gift, and thoughtful, too!

Helen

Helen

I hope these are not going to be just decorations. Get some bungee cords to attach to the rings so that you can start to do some pull ups. 

You can also just hang and bring your knees up to start to work on your core strength. After a while you can keep you legs straight out and bring them up to be parallel to the floor and maybe have you knees touch your face. Work it slowly.

Have fun,

John

Old lady Hwrote:

I admit, just seeing all this hanging there in my hall doorway makes me smile. I think it's the "it's my house, I can do anything I want even if normal people wouldn't do that" thing.

But, yes, I know they should be more than decorative, so, Rock Rings 101, anyone? I'm assuming just hanging, to start. My hands just go over the top of them, clipped where they are, feet on the ground. Super easy to clip higher or lower, and I didn't even do anything with the cords yet. Seems good enough, as is? 

I said it earlier, but to repeat, my hands are small. Open grip will get me more than fingertips in all of the holes. 

Thanks so much! A nice gift, and thoughtful, too!

Helen

Have I got a treat for you! Metolius Rock Rings come with a workout routine. MOST of it should be do-able for you, esp if you modify it a little. There's a chart that you can print. However, I found looking to see what exercise I should be doing and for how long disrupted the flow. So, I downloaded a little app for my phone named 'Flexible Interval Timer'. This is for interval type training: do an exercise for x seconds, rest for x seconds, etc. The great thing about the app is is speaks the instructions to you. It uses the lovely ladies voice that the phone uses for the Maps navigation app. I think one can change the phone's voice, mine uses a lovely, posh English lady.

Anyway, you create a text file of the exercise name, the duration, then the word rest and the duration of the rest. It's easy to learn how to create the files. So, I started of course with a normal routine, but then thought I'd have some fun. Rather than the lovely, posh English lady telling me to do "Do five pullups on the jugs" I thought it'd be fun if she had a sort of a recruit instructor vibe and told me to "Get the fuck up there and do five fucking pullups on the jugs, recruit". Think 'Full Metal Jacket' drill sergeant' type thing. 

The problem is, having a lovely, demure English lady give me these instructions in such a nice manner made me laugh so much it was hard to do the actual work out.

Here's the link to the app for your phone:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=zev.flexibleintervaltimer&referrer=utm_source%3DAndroidPIT%26utm_medium%3DAndroidPIT%26utm_campaign%3DAndroidPIT

So, if you look at the first lines below, you do 3 pull ups on the jugs. Duration of exercise is 15 seconds. Then rest for 45 seconds. Next, do a 10 second bent arm hang using the 3 finger pockets, immediately followed by a 15 second dead hang using the 2 finger pockets.

Here's my workout (the fun, potty mouth one) and below that is the boring one:

Get the fuck up there and do 3 pull ups using jugs 15

Rest 45

10 second bent arm hang using 3 finger pocket 10

15 second dead hang using 2 finger pocket 15

Rest 35

2 offset pull ups using 4 finger edge and 2  finger pocket 10

2 offset pull ups other way around using same holds 10

Rest 40

20 second sit hang using 4 finger edges 20

10 second dead hang using 3 finger pockets 10

Rest 30

5 fucking pull ups using 4 finger edges 20

Rest 45

20 second bent arm hang using 3 finger pockets 20

10 second dead hang using 2 finger pockets 10

Rest 30

15 second sit hang using 4 finger edges 15

15 second dead hang using 4 finger edge 15

Rest 30

10 second offset hang using jug and 2 finger pocket 10

10 second offset hang using 2 finger pocket and jug 10

Rest 40

20 second sit hang using 4 finger edges 20

Rest 40

Get up there and do five fucking good pull ups using 3 finger pockets 10

Straight arm hang to failure using 3 finger pockets 50

(Boring workout below)

3 pull ups using jugs 10

Rest 50

Bent arm hang using 3 finger pocket 10

Straight arm hang using 2 finger pocket 15

Rest 35

2 offset pull ups using 4 finger edge and 2 finger pocket 10

2 offset pull ups using 2 finger pocket and 4 finger edge 10

Rest 40

Sit hang using 4 finger edges 20

Straight arm hang using 3 finger pockets 10

Rest 30

5 pull ups using 4 finger edges 15

Rest 45

Bent arm hang using 3 finger pockets 20

Straight arm hang using 2 finger pockets 10

Rest 30

Sit hang using 4 finger edges 15

Straight arm hang using 4 finger edges 15

Rest 30

Offset hang using jug and 2 finger pocket 10

Offset hang using 2 finger pocket and jug 10

Rest 40

Sit hang using 4 finger edges 20

Rest 40

5 pull ups using 3 finger pockets 10

Straight arm hang to failure using 3 finger pockets 50

Tony offered to wash my backpack but looking at the condition of everything in the backpack is distressing. I can say that these shoes smell worse than they look. The straps on my helmet were once white. My harness is pretty ripe too.  Is there a correct way to clean this stuff? 

I wash my climbing shoes in the washing machine, much to my wife's dismay. I've washed a backpack in there too. I never use anything other than water to wash ropes and slings. Normally I wash my climbing rope in the shower and string it up to dry on the dining room chairs. 

I've not done it, but you could try putting your shoes in a pillow case and then putting them in the washing machine. 

First day back in the gym since mid-February, and I have video to prove it!  I tried the "shoe holder" method for the first time, and it worked.  This is my favorite of the gym cracks.  They rate it 10a with the chips, but it will be easier or harder depending on your hand and foot size.  It's perfect hands for me, and without the chips, probably 5.9/10a.  I'm breathing pretty hard by the time I get to the top!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y06TnHQglc&feature=youtu.be

phylp phylpwrote:

First day back in the gym since mid-February, and I have video to prove it!  I tried the "shoe holder" method for the first time, and it worked.  This is my favorite of the gym cracks.  They rate it 10a with the chips, but it will be easier or harder depending on your hand and foot size.  It's perfect hands for me, and without the chips, probably 5.9/10a.  I'm breathing pretty hard by the time I get to the top!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y06TnHQglc&feature=youtu.be

Well done!  Looks like Reppy's Crack back on Cannon!

Wish my gym had one