New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #13

dragonswrote:

Hey Wendy,

I'm not taking what you say personally. If my message sounded superior and preachy to anyone, then I'm sorry, that was certainly not my intent! I didn't take Kevin's post that way, either, though. He was saying how he feels about food. I agree with him, but that doesn't mean I'm looking down at anyone who eats a different way. "You do you", as they say.

Are we not allowed to discuss feelings about food? People do get kind of passionate about what they eat. I would hope we could agree to disagree on this reasonably safe topic, and discuss differences without getting bent out of shape.

For the record, we have no Hellman's, Heinz, or Grey Poupon in our fridge (at the moment we have no mustard at all, but when we do, it is generally foofy organic stuff). We are kind of "foodies" and yeah we get the organic stuff where you can recognize the ingredients. No sugar in our ketchup. We're not foodie enough to make our own mayo or ketchup, though  

Dragons,

My comment wasn't intended for you. And sure we can discuss food and preferences. We do it all the time. It's the use of the word "should" that I objected to. Tell me what you like to eat. Just don't tell me my Hellman's should stay in the jar. Personally, I'm (very obviously) not a foodie, though I enjoy fresh ingredients well-made. I also love (too much so for my own good) butterfat and sugar. And I have a few dirty little secrets about processed and chemical-laden comfort foods from my childhood which I shall spare you the horror of.   

Lori, I hope you were joking about feeding roadrunners dog food. Native animals have been doing fine for centuries eating that which is naturally available for them. Feeding them man-made food can do no good, and in many cases, do great harm. Please, please don't do this! 

Another thought: You may end up attracting more rats than roadrunners.

Brandt Allenwrote:

Lori, I hope you were joking about feeding roadrunners dog food. Native animals have been doing fine for centuries eating that which is naturally available for them. Feeding them man-made food can do no good, and in many cases, do great harm. Please, please don't do this! 

Another thought: You may end up attracting more rats than roadrunners.

Well, I half expected this response when I posted that.  Thanks, Brandt.  I don't believe Tony was going to broadcast dog food everywhere.  When I rehabbed a crow for six months, the vet had us feed him moistened dry dog food which I guess is standard for carnivorous birds.  I think the idea here was just to have a pellet in hand if a roadrunner should approach... but then again, maybe even that is not a good idea.  

I apparently can't overfeed the rats, because they feast on the wiring in my car.  Very frustrating!  I'm waiting for the next thing that short circuits.   

Allrighty, let's just fes up here, okay?

I AM a foodie, buying not merely organic but beyond organic (that's where you actually know the kids and dogs of the farmers ranchers and artisan pasta makers and bakers who feed you). I have made almost everything from scratch, at some point, sauerkraut most recently. Btw, ketchup relies on sugar one way or another to work. Just sayin'.

But?

Hostess cupcakes. The brand name changed over the decades, and regionally too. But, evil little cupcakes, with less than zero food value. Maybe once a year. The chocolate ones with white stuff in the middle, "chocolate" frosting on top, and white squiggles.

I do buy ice cream, whatever, whenever i truly want, these days. Yes, i have popcorn for dinner. Unless it's cheesecake I want. Maybe both...

And all bets are off on camping/climbing trips! Same goes if anyone else is kind enough to cook for me. You cook, I eat. Very, very, gratefully. 

Even if I haven't lead (led?) squat to earn it!

;-)

Wendy - I understand where you’re coming from on the food issue. Maybe it’s a little bit based on where we live too.... so much food shaming in the Boulder bubble! I’m sure it happens elsewhere too, but people in this area do tend to get pretty judgy about what other people eat. I get pretty sensitive when people tell me what I should/shouldn’t eat too. 

This is why I can’t live without an oven. Some days you just need to bake. This and bread. 

OMG, Erika, that looks sooooo yummy!

I might just hate you, a teensy wee bit. ;-)

Birthday tart for my momma! :)

Lori Milaswrote:This Alex Honnold bike ride totally has me bummed.  I want to ask a serious question: how do you (we) get to that level of fitness?  ... I'm guessing the answer to my question is to start slow and easy.  To climb up at Tahquitz, to navigate better around here... to be able to take on more physical fun, it seems grabbing my bike and heading out would be a start.    

The first question is easy to answer, you (we) will never get to Alex Honnold's level of fitness.  Even Alex will not be able to get to his level of fitness when he is 70, though I imagine he'll be way beyond most.

In one sense, nothing is easier than increasing aerobic fitness.  Do stuff regularly and you'll get fitter.  Now you have a choice: should you be happy that you are fitter, or should you be sad because even after a lot of hard work and notable personal improvement, you still can't keep up with folks half your age, including some who seem to be coming straight off the couch?

A few years ago i worked really hard on my aerobic capacity in preparation for a trip to the Tetons. Hilly trail runs. One of the first days I was out there, I was pounding up the trail, breathihg like an effin' locomotive, and feeling like I must be on the verge of setting a new international record for that hike. As I was settling into the pleasant contemplation of my awesome fitness, a gaggle of teenage girls appeared and blasted past me in a flash, without a moment's interruption in their non-stop banter. A few days later, a grizzled old granny blew the doors off what I thought was a very brisk descending pace. After a while, I grew accustomed to flesh-colored blurs streaking past me on the trail as I labored near my personal the red line. Then I'd see them again on their way down while I was still toiling upwards.

So yes, you have to start slow and easy.  And yes, you can continually build your fitness and be able to tackle more and more ambitious things, things you couldn't have touched before you started coditioning.  But Lori? (Channeling Helen here) You're always gonna be slow.  Even if you start winning master's races, you'll be slow.  Some amazing old guy just won a big master's one-mile race in a time I used to run in high-school when I was finishing fifth or worse in state meets.  He's slow too.

So I say embrace the slowness. Revel in tortoisity. Live in a private bubble in which you get better and better and push yourself to (sensible) limits. But don't go chasin' after Alex, because he's outta sight.

Lori Milaswrote:

 I mentioned to Tony that perhaps we should take a casual 120m bike ride (up 14k feet) for 16 hours... a little spin.    How in the world do these guys do this?  I guess Mountain biking is now the thing that goes with climbing?  My daughter is suddenly into it too... 

When not climbing I bike, a lot.  120 miles in 16 hours would be a slow pace on a road bike, even with 14,000 feet of climbing.  But on a mountain bike, with increased friction from the tires coupled with heavier weight of the bike, that's much more difficult, without considering how sore your butt might be after 16 hours!

ErikaNWwrote:

This is why I can’t live without an oven. Some days you just need to bake. This and bread. 

Omigod! I. WANT. THAT. NOW.  

With or without an oven, my biggest problem is getting the tart to stick to the wall AND not drop off any fruits.

Lori, rattlesnake is very good. Most can't get past the gut and skin part, but once you do the meat is sweet and tender We always used grandma's fried chicken recipe.  

Our "you aren't as good as you once we're" moment came when we got passed by an 80 year old on the http://www.rockymountainhikingtrails.com/devils-causeway.htm

He told us he lives nearby and hike the trail weekly in the summer. We now just let everyone pass us and don't fret about it.

Rgold.  You seem to always find the right words at the right time.  Than you.

However, while I am still in my fantasy life, I hope I can put on my red t-shirt and channel my inner Alex and do some feats the right size for me.  It’s kind of like Snoopys Red Baron.  There’s a lot going on in my head that never reaches my body.   As soon as it is no longer 95 degrees outside I’ll be on my bike.

I apologize for another left turn here but today we were at Home Depot to pick out a barbecue and I realized I don’t know what I’m doing.  I hope someone will have a thought.  During COVID quarantine I took a Master Class on line on Texas-style barbecue which was mostly about wood and fires and long, long cooking times using a smoker that looks a lot like the below. But when we got to Home Depot today I wondered if the cooker I was looking at was overkill... will we ever use or need all that?  It’s big.  Maybe we only need a propane or a charcoal grill... not both?  Tony only wants to barbecue a steak now and then. I’d like to slow cook a brisket and have it taste like wood. 

Can you share what you use to barbecue?  We left empty-handed until I can check in with you all.

A kettle barbecue, with wood "charcoal", pushed to the sides is the indirect way to BBQ. You keep adding briquets through the side slots, as needed. I used to do turkey that way. Steaks, stuff you cook quickly and want seared, goes directly over coals. 

Never used a smoker, but you can add chips to the BBQ and make smoke toward the end, easy enough, just for flavor.

I'm guessing you can accomplish all this with big fancy rigs, but I always went inexpensive, going clear back to hibachi on the back porch days. 

"Revel in tortoisity." I love it! My new slogan.

One of man's greatest ongoing great debates is the best BBQ grill.  I love to use my son in laws huge texas style smoker, I make some really great stuff when I have two days to prepare it.  Get one for Tony, it will take him about 5 months to get it right, but when he does you will be amazed. 

I started buying these cheap chinese stainless steel propane grills.  They are portable, which works well in the RV, they have decent heat control if you factor in wind and possibly add something to keep the lid open a little.  And they are cheap.  Gets the basic job done. 

Cycling has to be one of the best means of achieving increased (good) aerobic fitness. Unless (until) you fall off, it is a great low impact activity, unlike running (or hiking downhill). Swimming is another great low impact activity.  Yet, because running, biking and swimming all use various different muscle groups, being in good shape aerobically in one discipline, does not fully carry over to another (but will give you a great base for other activities).

There are a lot of different theories on gaining cycling fitness, but I've found that two elements play a role: (1) getting in mileage - e.g.: time on the saddle; and (2) intensity of effort (high "watt output") over shorter periods of time.  If you just ride slow, even over longer distances, you will always be slow and limit your aerobic potential. But, riding just fast over short distances, will not give you endurance.

Unless you have inherently good (and/or developed) cardio vascular capacity, your potential for speed and distance will (and should) be more limited. And, as you age, your max heart rate will continue to decrease, and thus the amount of speed and output. And, for older people not used to intense aerobic activity, pushing too hard can have risks - having a good medical physical and stress test might be advisable.

However, I would also observe that some older elite cyclists (60s and 70s) who regularly train and compete, can be performing at very high levels, particularly when compared to cyclists in general, rather than competitive cyclists. 

One thing I have observed in myself (and others), is that as I have gotten older, I do not tolerate heat as well (whether climbing, cycling, hiking, etc.). Be extra careful in engaging in intense activities in the heat, and always keep well hydrated. It is much easier to go over your "red line" and do potential harm. 

Take time to learn your own body and how it adapts to cycling (or hiking).  Get a good sense of when you need to push a bit and when you are pushing too hard. 

The nice thing about riding or hiking is you can eat and drink on the go, so as to maintain proper blood sugar, electrolytes, etc.

Thank you, Randy, rgold and others for your thoughts on fitness and cycling (at a 'certain age').  I can only imagine what it must be like for you, being lifelong athletes, and knowing what you could do back in the day.  You have something to compare to.  

But starting to climb at 64... and I just turned 67 last week... I don't have a 'past'. (well, not that kind of past, anyway)    The highlight of my career is NOW.  So, I'm still finding out by trial and error what this older body can do.  

Thanks for the words on heat, Randy.  Much as I love this desert sun, it has worn me out more than once.  

Just to leave this here... I checked in with my Type 1 Diabetic Athlete friends, asking about what they experience in terms of fitness, fatigue, problems with endurance, strength.  Most of them are half my age.  They all report variable days... some concluded that just the fact of being diabetic calls upon a lot of energy reserves.  One said "I’ve had this conversation with my endo - natural for people with chronic conditions to require more sleep or feel persistent tiredness. Reason being your body is working significantly harder to find “equilibrium” or fight highs and lows."

So.  We've all got something, some kind of challenge that makes life interesting.  And we keep on doing what we love.  (I'm looking forward to that climbing wall. I do plan to use it. Thank you, Brandt, for letting us see yours.)

Lori Milaswrote:

Can you share what you use to barbecue?  We left empty-handed until I can check in with you all.

My preference is a propane grill.  Much easier than charcoal or wood to control temperature.  For steak, chicken, fish, shrimp I start on high temperature to sear, then reduce to medium or low, depending on type of meat and thickness.  I like a basic Weber grill, but one where the grill is made with large diameter rod.  Sometimes the models sold by mass merchants have grills with small diameter rods and those will not last.  I've found the "same" models sold by independent stores come with the more robust grill structure.