New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #13

Bob Gaineswrote:

Regarding toproping....Well, I always say that toproping is the purest and most relaxing form of rock climbing. Unlike bouldering, you don't have to worry about hitting the ground; unlike free soloing, you don't have to worry about dying; and unlike leading, you don't have to stop and clip all those bolts or fiddle around with all the protection placements and get all scared about falling.

I had a conversation with Peter Croft a while back (Peter is arguably the most accomplished trad leader of all time) and he agreed with me. 

Toproping at JTree

A picture is worth a thousand words.  This has been an intense time, folks... for me, at least... with so much downtime this year, and so much has changed.  And now, living in Joshua Tree (except, so much remains unsettled here in Rocklin)--it's been hard to feel much excitement about anything.  Any climbing has been in fits and starts, and focus is all over the place.  

I just needed to see this picture.  Would anyone turn down such a route because they couldn't lead it?  This here is what drew me here, these incredible routes, this magnificent rock, and the  opportunity to  try to climb routes like this.  I don't give a fk if it's on a top rope, leading, or in a wing suit.  I want to climb.  Thanks to Bob, I smiled all day and found my stoke again.  I showed this picture to Tony and he (sort of hazily) said "Don't let me stand in your way. Go get it."   At this moment I don't want to know that it's a 5.12 route... I'm sure there's a 5.10 that looks just like it.      

I hope we all find our muse this season. I hope we get everything back, and then some.  What are everyone's plans?  Are you getting back in the mood to get on some rock?  And you have this wonderful trip happening here with Helen, coming right up.  I know Dwain is just pacing the floors, waiting to get there.   Now I'm pacing the floors, waiting to get back to Josh.  

A friend sent me this article last night.  At first I wondered why she sent it.  But reading it through, I thought it carried a good climbing message... something we've all experienced many times: when you get to that spot on a route where you have to let go to move on, but have no sure holds ahead.  Enjoy.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/15/style/modern-love-coronavirus-let-go-to-move-on.html

Lori Milaswrote:

A picture is worth a thousand words.  This has been an intense time, folks... for me, at least... with so much downtime this year, and so much has changed.  And now, living in Joshua Tree (except, so much remains unsettled here in Rocklin)--it's been hard to feel much excitement about anything.  Any climbing has been in fits and starts, and focus is all over the place.  

I just needed to see this picture.  Would anyone turn down such a route because they couldn't lead it?  This here is what drew me here, these incredible routes, this magnificent rock, and the  opportunity to  try to climb routes like this.  I don't give a fk if it's on a top rope, leading, or in a wing suit.  I want to climb.  Thanks to Bob, I smiled all day and found my stoke again.  I showed this picture to Tony and he (sort of hazily) said "Don't let me stand in your way. Go get it."   At this moment I don't want to know that it's a 5.12 route... I'm sure there's a 5.10 that looks just like it.      

I hope we all find our muse this season. I hope we get everything back, and then some.  What are everyone's plans?  Are you getting back in the mood to get on some rock?  And you have this wonderful trip happening here with Helen, coming right up.  I know Dwain is just pacing the floors, waiting to get there.   Now I'm pacing the floors, waiting to get back to Josh.  

A friend sent me this article last night.  At first I wondered why she sent it.  But reading it through, I thought it carried a good climbing message... something we've all experienced many times: when you get to that spot on a route where you have to let go to move on, but have no sure holds ahead.  Enjoy.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/15/style/modern-love-coronavirus-let-go-to-move-on.html

 

#ROADTRIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Great story, Lori, nice find! Especially as I need to start contemplating the terror of dating...maybe. 

Two weeks from today I'll be on the road again (cue Willie Nelson)!

Sending phone number via pm to the ones I'm pretty sure expressed interest at some point. Feel free to pass it on to people you know are coming who may not have it. 

Best, H.

EDIT to add, apparently there's a limit to "contact user" too, sheesh. Hit me up for the phone, if you don't have it or didn't get it and think you might be there.

Will be in Buena Vista, CO over Labor Day weekend doing some sport climbing. Besides just generally wanting to climb some fun stuff,  my chief target route is Despondent at the Pump Station crag. I always take any beta that I can, so let me know if anyone has been on it? MP description is limited...

Cherokee Nuneswrote:

I am coming off a long injury recovery period and had the opportunity the other day to put on my rock shoes and do some close to the ground bouldering. The nature of my injury is such that the thought of reinjury is so appalling it made relaxing next to impossible. It was not fun. As it happens a small hold broke and I did drop to the ground from just 3 feet up. Thankfully I did not hurt myself but I re-realized that my bouldering career is likely as over as over can be. 60+ year old previously injured bodies don't react well to sudden impacts with mother earth. So... top roping for me, even on the small stuff. But I've always loved top roping and there is no stigmata attached to my ego about it. :)

I ruptured my ACL on a pretty short jump off a boulder at 68.  I gave up bouldering after that; the risk/benefit ratio wasn't looking good.  But I've continued to lead trad outdoors in the ensuing 8 years, although I'm slowly dialing back what I'm willing to lead.  I mostly top-rope in the gym, as I feel I can get 90% of the benefit without risking getting spiked, but outdoors I mostly want to share the lead.

rgoldwrote:

I ruptured my ACL on a pretty short jump off a boulder at 68.  I gave up bouldering after that; the risk/benefit ratio wasn't looking good.  But I've continued to lead trad outdoors in the ensuing 8 years, although I'm slowly dialing back what I'm willing to lead.  I mostly top-rope in the gym, as I feel I can get 90% of the benefit without risking getting spiked, but outdoors I mostly want to share the lead.

I've been so inspired by you, Rich.  The stories you've told, just here on this thread alone, have been so uplifting.  

I noticed that Bob used the word 'relaxed' with regards to climbing on top rope.  I have to say, I've never once felt relaxed, ever.  Maybe relaxed, relative to dying in a long fall... but I'm pretty amped up any time I climb.  It's a lot of work, a lot of exertion... come to think of it, more than once Bob has suggested I slow down, rest, and take some deep breaths. I wonder if there is a way to get to 'relaxed', in the casual way you both sound.  I suspect it has something to do with fitness, with being physically strong for climbing.  I still huff and puff a lot.    

Lori Milaswrote:

I've been so inspired by you, Rich.  The stories you've told, just here on this thread alone, have been so uplifting.  

I noticed that Bob used the word 'relaxed' with regards to climbing on top rope.  I have to say, I've never once felt relaxed, ever.  Maybe relaxed, relative to dying in a long fall... but I'm pretty amped up any time I climb.  It's a lot of work, a lot of exertion... come to think of it, more than once Bob has suggested I slow down, rest, and take some deep breaths. I wonder if there is a way to get to 'relaxed', in the casual way you both sound.  I suspect it has something to do with fitness, with being physically strong for climbing.  I still huff and puff a lot.    

Hi Lori,
I think being relaxed while climbing depends on what you're doing.  Last night I went to the climbing gym with my friend and I did a grade 14, 16, 18, 18, 22, 21 (not clean) 14, 17, 18. The 21 I failed on is HARD for a 21, overhung lay backing on a crack. 

My friend has been climbing for about 40 years but he's now a bit overweight and seems completely unpsyched.  I like to climb with psyched people, in fact the other day when I was trying to get him to get a move on and climb instead of talk he said "Calm down! You're just so WIRED!". 

On the climbs I did last night, I really only had to 'try' on the first 18, the 22 and the 21.  All the others including the second 18 I could really relax on.  The second 18 is my style, overhung with jugs, pumpy but not massively so.  It really has only one hard move but you can flow on the rest.  Generally, I can have a conversation as I climb or whistle or even sing on most climbs up to about grade 17; esp indoors.  

We did a new climb that had been set that hadn't been graded. I looked at it and thought it looked easy, then saw a lady about my age (maybe a little younger) try it and then thought maybe it was harder than I thought, as she struggled on a particular move. Anyway, I got on it and decided she'd just read it wrong. It was very easy, I judged about a grade 13.  Too easy for me really apart for a warmup. I was able to really relax and really try and flow smoothly.  I got my mate to try it and he enjoyed it too. In fact I said "Give this a whirlygig, it'll relax you and get you moving nicely".  

I feel when one climbs close or at one's limit often you dump some technique.

You should not feel at all fearful on top rope.  If it's set up correctly and all the gear is good and you've done your checks and you have a competent belayer I feel there's very few situations when top roping where you are in any danger at all.  So then it should just come down to exertion and how hard you're trying. Nothing at all wrong with trying hard most of the time. However, take it down a peg or two once in a while to enable good practice of efficient techniques so they become ingrained

Moral of the story is, if you're working hard, or a little fearful, you maybe won't feel relaxed. But if you're climbing well within your limit, you should be, esp on TR.  If you take it down a peg or two so you're NOT puffing and panting you WILL be able to relax and really concentrate on technique, poise, flow etc.  

Just my opinion, hope it helps :-)

Carl Schneiderwrote:

Hi Lori,
I think being relaxed while climbing depends on what you're doing.  Last night I went to the climbing gym with my friend and I did a grade 14, 16, 18, 18, 22, 21 (not clean) 14, 17, 18. The 21 I failed on is HARD for a 21, overhung lay backing on a crack. 

My friend has been climbing for about 40 years but he's now a bit overweight and seems completely unpsyched.  I like to climb with psyched people, in fact the other day when I was trying to get him to get a move on and climb instead of talk he said "Calm down! You're just so WIRED!". 

On the climbs I did last night, I really only had to 'try' on the first 18, the 22 and the 21.  All the others including the second 18 I could really relax on.  The second 18 is my style, overhung with jugs, pumpy but not massively so.  It really has only one hard move but you can flow on the rest.  Generally, I can have a conversation as I climb or whistle or even sing on most climbs up to about grade 17; esp indoors.  

We did a new climb that had been set that hadn't been graded. I looked at it and thought it looked easy, then saw a lady about my age (maybe a little younger) try it and then thought maybe it was harder than I thought, as she struggled on a particular move. Anyway, I got on it and decided she'd just read it wrong. It was very easy, I judged about a grade 13.  Too easy for me really apart for a warmup. I was able to really relax and really try and flow smoothly.  I got my mate to try it and he enjoyed it too. In fact I said "Give this a whirlygig, it'll relax you and get you moving nicely".  

I feel when one climbs close or at one's limit often you dump some technique.

You should not feel at all fearful on top rope.  If it's set up correctly and all the gear is good and you've done your checks and you have a competent belayer I feel there's very few situations when top roping where you are in any danger at all.  So then it should just come down to exertion and how hard you're trying. Nothing at all wrong with trying hard most of the time. However, take it down a peg or two once in a while to enable good practice of efficient techniques so they become ingrained

Moral of the story is, if you're working hard, or a little fearful, you maybe won't feel relaxed. But if you're climbing well within your limit, you should be, esp on TR.  If you take it down a peg or two so you're NOT puffing and panting you WILL be able to relax and really concentrate on technique, poise, flow etc.  

Just my opinion, hope it helps :-)

Thanks, Carl.  Love it when you share what you're up to.  For sure, you are nearly always 'psyched'.  Or psycho.    

I have watched Bob, what I would call 'saunter', up difficult routes to set up a top rope anchor for me.  Relaxed is a good word for it.  And other climbers I've been out with, of course... are truly relaxed.  

One of the things I have noticed about myself is that my hands shake.  It's the tip off that I'm under a lot of exertion.  So, a goal of mine has been to get so strong that I don't shake...quiver... but that will take time.  If I'm shaking and breathing hard, I am not feeling 'relaxed'. 

Now that I've been completely off any exercise again for 2+ weeks... not even a walk outside... I can see how fast we loose fitness and strength.  It is so frustrating to climb in fits and starts... and now with our gyms closed I feel like I've lost a lot of gains, will have to almost start over (from having no real consistent exercise or climbing since February).  So, this fantasy of mine of having a whole year to roam, play and climb without having to head back to the city... trot out there with the coyotes daily, climb in the morning, climb at sunsets... I'm SO CURIOUS how my body will adapt to that and where my climbing will go.  

Also, Carl... I would have to think back on your videos, but I love how good climbers move, with a flow, decisively. I suspect you do, too.  

A favorite climber of mine, Brittany Griffith. 

Beautiful almost spring day here today, about 22 degrees and not a cloud in the sky. Went top roping, one climb (a 17) I'd done a couple of tunes before and a newie. The 17 has a tricky balancy start with a high step up with a poor ish hold and a big move up and left to a wide pinch. Had to have a couple of shots at the start. Failed on the 22. The rope wasn't set up right causing a big swing when you came off at the crux. Luckily I decided to wear a helmet as one time as I swung back to the rock I thought "fuck, I better turn around. My head was heading straight for a hit. Gotta go back to the 22.

https://www.thecrag.com/en/climbing/australia/morialta/route/13533475

Lori Milaswrote:

Thanks, Carl.  Love it when you share what you're up to.  For sure, you are nearly always 'psyched'.  Or psycho.    

I have watched Bob, what I would call 'saunter', up difficult routes to set up a top rope anchor for me.  Relaxed is a good word for it.  And other climbers I've been out with, of course... are truly relaxed.  

One of the things I have noticed about myself is that my hands shake.  It's the tip off that I'm under a lot of exertion.  So, a goal of mine has been to get so strong that I don't shake...quiver... but that will take time.  If I'm shaking and breathing hard, I am not feeling 'relaxed'. 

Now that I've been completely off any exercise again for 2+ weeks... not even a walk outside... I can see how fast we loose fitness and strength.  It is so frustrating to climb in fits and starts... and now with our gyms closed I feel like I've lost a lot of gains, will have to almost start over (from having no real consistent exercise or climbing since February).  So, this fantasy of mine of having a whole year to roam, play and climb without having to head back to the city... trot out there with the coyotes daily, climb in the morning, climb at sunsets... I'm SO CURIOUS how my body will adapt to that and where my climbing will go.  

Also, Carl... I would have to think back on your videos, but I love how good climbers move, with a flow, decisively. I suspect you do, too.  

A favorite climber of mine, Brittany Griffith. 

  

Yes, I like watching good climbers. Ithink for me to be climbing smoothly I need to not be trying very hard. If I'm climbing at my limit (see the story about today's 22 above). It's all relative.i know in the scheme of things a 22 is fuck all. 

Why aren't you exercising at home if you can't climb? I find I lose form fast too. Any more than four consecutive days off climbing and I start to get weak. 

Carl Schneiderwrote:

.i know in the scheme of things a 22 is fuck all. 

Why aren't you exercising at home if you can't climb? I find I lose form fast too. Any more than four consecutive days off climbing and I start to get weak. 

Why aren't you drinking?  

I'm fresh out of excuses for why I am not exercising.  I could echo you that in the scheme of things, right now is fuck all.  

I think maybe it was Helen who said this, and I second... when you are completely fallen off the wagon, the best thing to do is to do SOMETHING.  So that's my goal today... put my shoes on and go do something.  I may hike back to our local quarry and see who's climbing back there.  Take a long walk and breathe in some fresh... .smoke.  

It has been a bit disorienting to travel so much between Joshua Tree and Sacramento.  Sometimes I think something is right down the street and then I remember, oh, that's in Joshua Tree.   Our local gym here just moved all its equipment outdoors under a tent-like structure.  I was about to give up my membership both here and Pipeworks, but maybe I'll keep it just a few weeks longer and go lift some weights.  

Update: Tony had his follow up visit yesterday with surgeon.  A bunch of pretty medical assistants and nurses hovered around and admired his scars and told him what a wonderful job he's doing... that perked him up a lot.  There have been fewer buckets of blood the last few days.  So I guess all in all, things are on the uptick.  

I'm glad there's some positive news. Sounds like you're in a rut. Yes, do at least something. Honestly, get some rock rings and/or a chin up bar. Try hanging for a few seconds from the rock rings or try doing a chinup. I know you may not be able to manage one, but pull up as far as you can, even a few inches. Then keep going back throughout the day and repeating it. May e every half hour or everytime you walk through the doorway... 

Cheer up. 

Gotta get up early. I going to New Jack City to climb and teach. I am Mentoring a Fantastic Lady named, Sasha, her 17 year old son Liam,

and Sasha's brother's son Trevor who just finished Nursing school. I have known them for years because Sasha's Mother has been one of my window washing customer since 1991.

In fact, my travel trailer has been parked in Sasha's mother's yard for the last ten every years and that is where I stay when I come to Calif to wash windows. So they are just like Family.

Calif is where my original window washing business is and the Las Vegas business I started 10 years ago when My Wife and I moved there. 

w00t, Idaho City of Rocks vacation roadtrip starts in 12 days!!!!! I am so excited!

Carl Schneiderwrote:

I'm glad there's some positive news. Sounds like you're in a rut. Yes, do at least something. Honestly, get some rock rings and/or a chin up bar. Try hanging for a few seconds from the rock rings or try doing a chinup. I know you may not be able to manage one, but pull up as far as you can, even a few inches. Then keep going back throughout the day and repeating it. May e every half hour or everytime you walk through the doorway... 

Cheer up. 

Carl, it would be SO FUN to climb with you!  I wonder, would you sing and recite poetry on every route?  Or swear like a sailor.  I'm not sure which is better.  Hope one day we can meet up and have that time... I would say 'meet somewhere in the middle', but I think we'd have to have on our scuba gear to do that.

--------

I had an annual rebate to spend at REI, so I browsed around yesterday and it felt good to be doing something halfway normal (being in a store, even masked and sequestered). I bought John Long's book, How To Rock Climb! I am enjoying every page... nothing so new here, just a little different perspective. Maybe Bob (or someone) can fill us in on John as a person and climber. I know his face, and of course his name... this book was last revised in 2010 so a lot has happened since then. That 'relaxed' word is mentioned again:

"The smooth coordination of hands and feet allows fluid movement: balance, agility, and flexibility are often better weapons against gravity than brute strength; endurance is generally more important than raw power; husbanding strength is accomplished by keeping your weight over your feet, rather than hanging from your arms; and the best execution of any climb is that which requires the least effort. Finally, staying relaxed is half the battle." 

There's a long section on edging.  Pat Ament yesterday posted something about mountain goats... I've studied this picture many times.  I don't know whether they are fearless, or they just have the right shoes.  I remember this route on Cap Rock, trying to learn how to walk the line here... 

Lately I think I have forgotten gratitude.  Reading the adventures of many here, and realizing that there are endless possibilities ahead, we are so lucky.  Dwain knows it.  I am shocked when I realize my playground is right out my front door (when I return to Josh).  I have decided to go ahead and build that climbing wall in my garage since the gyms are closed, and the climbing gym in Palm Springs has closed for good.  I'm checking around for cheap/used holds.  I'm still not used to the spiders, snakes and scorpions of the desert... and rodents... and my garage could pretty much be a haven for them all.  So, I don't know if it's too 'city girl' of me to want to drywall it, or patch the holes... and I don't know if the previous owner had a meth lab or some kind of shop there, but there are dozens of hanging electrical outlets and wires everywhere.  Hopefully someone can help me clean it up, so that it becomes a 'garage', and one I'd like to visit.  

How's everyone's weekend going, and is anyone going to be out this week?    

John Long is a GREAT writer! His books "Rock Jocks, Wall Rats and Hang Dogs" and "Stories from the Dirt" collect his amazing stories. Very enjoyable reading except of course that it highlights my own lack of courage and sense of adventure! When you can't get out climbing these are the next best thing.

We have a quarry here with slick black rock and holds that pull off when you grab them.  I’ve climbed very little here. I don’t know why I always feel weird about it... maybe just knowing it’s a scar. It was once beautiful foothill mountains... this has to be the result of many blasts. But it is quite awesome to view, probably 200 vertical feet. 

Lori Milaswrote:

Carl, it would be SO FUN to climb with you!  I wonder, would you sing and recite poetry on every route?  Or swear like a sailor.

Both. It'd be fun to climb with you too Lori. 

What a productive day.  Teaching and climbing. I am exhausted but satisfied..

Cosmic, your exuberance is wonderful.  I'm so happy that you are finally back out there, doing what you love.    

I've been waiting for some kind of fresh wind of change.  I have the sense that it's on its way, if not here just yet.  This song has been playing in my head for days.  I've got a feeling we are all just a moment away from the best adventure of our lives.  Hang in there...