New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #11

Old lady Hwrote: 
Those speeds that real riders get? The only time my bike ever got that fast, was sitting in the bed of my pickup. Some lady bike racers here, including our fellow forum member BITD when we had a major race in southern Idaho, rocketed down long grades on the road races at 50mph+, unless I'm misremembering. And in a pack, too! I'm guessing bike tech is even faster, now.

Pic is from late May. Climbing, cardio, walking, gardening are dino stickers. Blue gems are 10,000 steps per the Fitbit. Gold gems will be strength training. Didn't have those in March, lol! That's the hardest, on my own. But, I'm holding my own just being active.

Yep - 50+ mph easily descending Galena Pass and also the Sun Valley circuit race (50 mph into a hard corner then exit into a brutal climb - goal: don't throw your chain when you're frantically shifting into a small gear!). I wouldn't dream of riding my motorcycle without full gear but I used to do that wearing lycra. 

Crashing definitely sucks at any speed. PSA: As a piece of advice to anyone riding bikes - wear gloves and a helmet. A lot of people don't consider gloves - but even a small wreck will destroy your palms. My helmet has also saved my life more than once (quite literally).

You rock Helen!! I LOVE the sticker idea! I put x's on my calendar for every day I get off my butt and do something. Anything to help motivation!

It was very nice to read about your stellar cycling career, Erika. Thank you for posting it. 

ErikaNWwrote:

Lori - posting this to answer your question - it's probably a little too personal honestly, and definitely not climbing related!

I raced bicycles (road and track) all over the country from ~1990 - 2000. I rode Individual Pursuit - 3km against the clock (1998 30-34 National Champion, top 10 Elite) and Points Race (mass start, sprint for points every 2km, ~20-25 km race, most points at the end wins). 

Wow Erika, that's really impressive.  Reminder to self, don't try to outclimb Erika if you encounter her on your road bike.  

Thanks, Erika! The calendar started with just penciling in a note, "walk", "TRX", whatever, but I decided this was more fun. I didn't want to "out" you on here, on the racing, so it was nice you popped those pics up yourself!

All, my husband took pics of this women only race, way back when, and it was a big deal. Multi day, racing up long, long grades between little Idaho mountain towns. Then a circuit, time trial or some such in that town. The road was closed for the race as each stage happened. Dave (and his co-workers) took photos either riding backwards on a motorcycle, or hanging out a helicopter. Helicopter was trickier, as it could only hover a limited amount of time due to density altitude. And, the racers went by quickly.

Erika, I took my bike with me when I did some work at Elkhorn, many decades ago. Biking around where you were tearing around that circuit? I couldn't figure out why it was so much harder. Oh. Duh. 4,000 feet higher than I'm used to, lol!

I still forget at times, that elevation matters. That 4,000 is noticeable for me, especially getting dehydrated. I'm finally learning to try to remember that, lol! Next week!! City is same thing. I'm super stoked for this first trip! Well, not counting mid January.  :-)

Best, Helen

Old lady Hwrote:

Very nice! Do you ramp it up to R or X when the shooting/archery range is going? Traverse is harder than up, somehow....

But I also heel hook the mattress to get out of bed some days.

Best, Helen

EDIT to add a pic for Carl!

Souvenir of my husband's, lol! 

I love Marmite, better than Vegemite even.... 

Erika, I had no idea you were such a badass on a bike. That's very cool. I road ride a bit and have tons of respect for anyone who can compete at the level you did. Do you still ride?

My $.02 on e-bikes, Lori, is that you and Tony should both get some, the fat-bike kind, and you'll use them all over J-tree. If I recall correctly there's a bit of a hill from town to your house and from your house to just about anywhere else. Good e-bikes will get you actually riding rather than looking at your other bikes in the garage thinking about how you wish that hill were shorter.

I have about 5 different bikes. One of them is an older electric bike I built out as my surf bike. It has board racks and is a great boost to shorten the distance between my house and the beach.

Eddie G wrote: Sweet, where was the second picture taken Dallas?

One of the pullouts along the Samuel H Boardman State Scenic Corridor in SW Oregon.  Closer to Brookings, OR than Gold Beach, OR. 

OldLadyH, yup rude e-bikers are a nuisance.  But like a lot of things, it's not the tool, it's the user.

Most states categorize a gas engine bicycle as a motorized vehicle.  Thus you need emission controls, helmets (in most places), license and registration, and are not allowed on bike paths.  

I am quite sure that ErikaNW and Jim could go a lot faster on a regular bike than I will ever obtain on my e-bike, even downhill. They have put in years of training and practice to get there.

E-bikes in cycling is like sport routes in climbing. Well ok, not exactly, my point being is change due to technology is difficult to accept. After all, you worked so hard to get good at what you are doing.  Then someone who has not put in the hours and hours of work comes along and takes up breathing room.  

We are lucky because we get to travel all over.  I see the same thing time and again. The folks that have predominately used and area for an extended length of time get the feeling that they have a greater right to that area than others who come later and use that area for a different reason.  

Ever see this sign:

Ever try to hike on a popular MB trail, even though it's multi-use it's one of the scariest things I've done.  Ever scare the crap out of a horse because you are quiet hiker and startle the horse making the rider work hard to control the animal.  

Sorry, I noticed that my soap box was out.  People naturally resist that which they don't fully understand because it is not in alignment with what they know and do.  It takes much less effort to criticize than to understand.  But it is imperative that no matter what our own belief is that we take a moment to be kind and respectful to others.  This is the underlying principal of humanity and civilization.

ErikaNWwrote:

Lori - posting this to answer your question - it's probably a little too personal honestly, and definitely not climbing related!

I raced bicycles (road and track) all over the country from ~1990 - 2000. I rode Individual Pursuit - 3km against the clock (1998 30-34 National Champion, top 10 Elite) and Points Race (mass start, sprint for points every 2km, ~20-25 km race, most points at the end wins). My most proud moment was helping my teammate win the Elite National Championships by 1 point in 1997. People often don't realize how much of a team sport cycling is. Here are a couple of pursuit photos - 1998 and 2000 I believe.

On the road I did well regionally (Rocky Mtn Region Rider of the Year in 1999, multiple Colorado state championships) and was more of a middle of the pack rider at the National level. Posting a couple of photos from the web of the 2000 Idaho Women's Challenge which was the premiere women's event worldwide for many years (I'm in there somewhere!) - in 2000 it was a 13 day stage race. 2000 was a really tough race since most of the European teams were using it for Olympic Selection. I was definitely pack fodder, but my team got a couple of podiums that I helped earn. It was always an accomplishment to make page 1 of the results sheet on a stage (that would be top 35 or so). This is the event Helen referred to - I rode it in 1993, 1997 and 2000. It was an honor to compete there since it was by invitation only.

Racing at that level was a full-time job. I trained 25-30 hours/week and spent the rest of the time consuming every calorie I could get my hands on, resting, and working part-time to make ends meet. I was fortunate to be able to earn enough through sponsors and prize money to cover most of my race-related expenses. The last couple of years it really was more work than fun, and I was always either on the verge of being sick, sick, or recovering from being sick. Honestly, I am way healthier now (and according to my husband much less crazy!!)

One thing I love about climbing is that it is completely non-competitive for me. I still 'train' - but it is more for injury-prevention and to stay fit/sane more than for performance benefit. If I don't feel like doing something or it isn't fun/enjoyable, I don't do it. It's kind of liberating.

And yes, I am spending WAY too much time on the internet today!!

Very cool!  I raced in college and worked my way up to Cat 3 afterward(mostly crits).  I always wanted to see what I could do on a track but never lived close enough to a velodrome.

ErikaNWwrote:

Yep - 50+ mph easily descending Galena Pass and also the Sun Valley circuit race (50 mph into a hard corner then exit into a brutal climb - goal: don't throw your chain when you're frantically shifting into a small gear!). I wouldn't dream of riding my motorcycle without full gear but I used to do that wearing lycra. 

Crashing definitely sucks at any speed. PSA: As a piece of advice to anyone riding bikes - wear gloves and a helmet. A lot of people don't consider gloves - but even a small wreck will destroy your palms. My helmet has also saved my life more than once (quite literally).

You rock Helen!! I LOVE the sticker idea! I put x's on my calendar for every day I get off my butt and do something. Anything to help motivation!

Thank you so much for sharing, Erika!  Who knew about this part of your history?  What beautiful pictures!  I was looking closely and realized "Hey! That's Erika!" Wow.  

Ok... for MY soapbox (Dallas)... I know I just keep on writing in this forum--it's been a way for me to process this life of climbing, and to learn from you all.  But everyone here is a badass in their own right, and I hope the stories will continue to unfold.  This is an incredible group here... I know things get lost in the hundreds of posts, and maybe a kernel of wisdom or experience is overlooked.  I hope you will just keep on writing, posting pictures, telling your stories.    
----------------
Neither here nor there... I keep thinking about an older friend of mine who did thousands of ascents over his career.  He believes he was the first person ever to take music with him on a big climb.  I was a little disappointed to hear that the very first song ever to hit El Cap was Andy Williams singing MOON RIVER.      Hint: when we first saw him he was holding a picture of Bob Dylan.  

So when I'm out alone I will put in earphones and play whatever is inspiring.  (Does anyone want to share playlists?)  But what I'm finding is that on technical climbing even really great music is too distracting.  I almost need total silence.   Anyone?

---------------------------

Rattlesnakes.  When out scrambling yesterday I got really concerned about running into a rattlesnake.  Maybe it's all the local pictures of snakes now... they're everywhere.  I realized when hopping over boulders yesterday that there is NO WAY to poke under every single rock/tree/shrub.  And, if I was a half hour away from my car, and it was a HARD scramble back... what would be the right response to a bite?  

This guy was found in the very crack we were using to learn to place cams for anchors.  

  

I've created a little summer project (Echo Rock Traverse.  I don't know why I thought it was called Black Tide).  It's a 100 foot traverse I can work on alone.  My goal is to work it clean by end of summer...

Since Bob is the slab-guru I'm trying to follow his rules.  
1) Make sure shoe soles are squeaky clean.
2) Nose over toes
3) Keep heels down, and away from rock
4) Place hands first before taking next step
5) Wear reading glasses (actually, that's my rule)

I've been thinking about Carl... and wondering what your rock looks like up close.  Actually, my exposure to other rock is pretty limited so I'm curious what you all are working with.  This is what I have to work with on the traverse... these are the foot and handholds.  

Side toe on this one:

"Jug"   


the first part of the traverse:

Greetings, O ye friends of superior chronological standing.

 I’m launching the next season of Sender’s Game Podcast and looking for stories from previous generations of climbers. I’ve interviewed many modern pros and found that I much prefer tales of Back in the Day when climbing was wilder and less commercialized

Previous guests of note have included the inimitable polymath Pat Ament, Jim Newberry and Arno Ilgner. This season we’ve got Stewart Green, Crusher Bartlett and hopefully Bryan Becker and Jimmy Dunn lined up as well.

If you have a story to share, feel free to PM me and we can set up a short Skype call, or I’ll be in SLC / City of Rocks / the Fins / Lander for the next four months.

(I realize that the market is oversaturated with climbing podcasts right now, but most seem to be infatuated with contemporary bone-crushing kids who grew up on plastic. I’d prefer to give a voice to the previous generations of trailblazers and preserve the oral tradition for posterity . )

(cast)

Wow! Lots on here...

Dallas, I will probably own an ebike eventually. The range needs to get higher, for me. Here, they have made the decisions where they are, and aren't, allowed. We have a huge system of trails in the Boise foothills, accessible from town. Fifty miles of greenbelt. Laws that favor bikes. And yes, any of us who use any of these resources need to understand who yields to whom, and how to do that.

The escooters are a nuisance, too, littering sidewalks on too many corners. Dunno if they'll stay, or not. The problem with a lot of this, is cars. All of our systems were designed with cars as the primary or even sole users. That's not sustainable long-term. The best thing to come out of covid was people discovering they don't have to drive as much as they think....and dusting off those bicycles. Or simply walking. If this had happened in the middle of a hard winter, I can't even imagine.

Lori, if you can stay on 100' of traverse, you're doing great! Bet you discover core muscles you didn't know you owned! No advice on the rattlers, but, I personally know not a single person who's been bitten. I've only seen (or heard) them three or four times in my life.

Fritz! Yay! Bet I know what you spend part of our time next week doing! I don't know who else we'll meet, but it's sure to be interesting! The Boise contingent is STOKED!!!  

I'm doing a special project today, while working on house stuff and getting ready for my trip to climb with Fritz. I'll post up in progress, it's unusual!

Best, Helen

Lori Milaswrote:

Rattlesnakes.  When out scrambling yesterday I got really concerned about running into a rattlesnake.  Maybe it's all the local pictures of snakes now... they're everywhere.  I realized when hopping over boulders yesterday that there is NO WAY to poke under every single rock/tree/shrub.  And, if I was a half hour away from my car, and it was a HARD scramble back... what would be the right response to a bite?    

While volunteering at Gingko Petrified Forest State Park near Vantage/Frenchman Coulee the state park invited a herpetologist from the university to give a 1/2 day course on rattlesnakes, we got to attend.  First off rattlesnakes are not aggressive toward humans, they are defensive.  If given an opportunity they will run away. If they feel threatened they will coil into a defensive pose and rattle.  (buzz).  Mature snakes may bite you but not inject venom, they know it does no good.  The buzz does not mean the snake will strike, it's just a warning.  So if you hear it just take one step backward from the way you came. If you see a snake just take one step backward.  

Mostly you will spot them well before they go into defensive mode.  You will always watch for them.  You will see a lot of stick snakes, sticks that look like snakes; this is a good thing, means you are watching for them.  When it is hot out they will be in cool places, shade.  When it is cool out they will be in warm places sunbathing. You will learn to zip your packs closed and stuff socks in the tops of your shoes, not so much for snakes but for scorpions.  Desert living is so much fun.  It gets pretty exciting when you pick up your pack only to have a snake under it trying to cool off.  With time and practice you will learn to spot them.  

I have never been bitten.  I have seen a lot of snakes.  The herpetologist told us that rattlesnake bites are rarely deadly.  People die from complications from the bite.  He didn't go into specifics.  Just that if bitten in the field make your way to the nearest hospital. Give them a heads up as soon as you are in cell range.  Try to avoid driving yourself.  Your bitten appendage is going to swell badly. So remove jewelry, shoes, other restrictive clothing. Don't tie a Tourniquet, don't try to bleed or suck the bite, it does no good.  

So your response in the situation you presented is to scramble back to the car and drive into to town.  Try to keep your heart rate as low as possible. It will be essentially the same response you will have if you break an ankle.   It's going to hurt, it's going to swell up.  It's appropriate to abandon unnecessary gear that will hinder you from getting help. 

The Benadryl theory.  There was a story going around about benadryl curing a snake bite, it doesn't.  What it does do is slow an allergic reaction you may have to the venom.  So it doesn't hurt.

When we first started out Barbara was not very snake aware.  She passed many without seeing them.  When she did spot one she would get excited start jumping up and down and screaming at the snake, scared the crap out of them.  Most just ran away, a few would coil into defensive posture.  Over time and many snake encounters she no longer goes into frantic defensive mode, but just stops, takes one step backward, picks up the dog, and says there is a snake.  End of excitement.

Thanks for the nice messages about my cycling past - it feels like a lifetime ago now. I hesitated posting anything as it feels a lot like spraying.

@Phylp - I really enjoy your posts. Your training wall is great!

@IdahoBob - ha ha! Going uphill has never really been my specialty and even less so now. I have discovered there is a really easy way to decrease suffering on a bike - go slower! I employ that tactic on the regular and don't even feel bad about it!

@OLH - yeah Elkhorn! I think that was the name of that circuit stage. My favorite stages were Lowman to Stanley (of course) - the town treated us SO well - one year my team got put up in these little cabins on the river and we soaked our legs in the cold water. In 2000 we had a mountain top finish at some ski area (can't remember which one - a town outside of Boise, not Bogus Basin) - I had one of those helium legs days there and finished with the main group (unusual for me). Paid badly for it at the Twin Falls - Glens Ferry stage in the following days. The Boise crit was always a highlight for me too - the crowds were insane and it was a relaxed day with an afternoon start.

@Senor - one of the gifts of coronovirus/shelter in place order is that I have been riding a lot more this year - enough to actually gain enough fitness to enjoy it and do some good rides. I still have a habit of my brain writing checks that my body can't cash though (my brain still thinks I'm 25....).

@MikeK - I started in collegiate racing also! My first bike race I lined up with Julie Furtado, Alison Dunlap, Sandol Brinig and Sunne Pollart (who years later became my good friend and teammate). They all rode for CU which was the powerhouse team in those days. I think I lasted 20 meters and probably got lapped 5 times. I do remember throwing up in a McDonalds bathroom afterwards - I don't think I had ever pushed that hard in my life. I was hooked! My husband was a big trackie (match sprint and keirin) - so whenever we were considering a move, we would draw a circle around the velodromes since we figured we had to be within 100 miles. We lived 80 miles from the CoSprings track and were down there 2-3 days a week for training/racing. It's changed so much - that program is pretty much dead and the Boulder Velodrome is in dire financial straits. I was lucky to race when I did and track racing was thriving. Now we plan our lives around climbing.

I stay involved with USACycling as an official - now I'm the one on the moto for road events and on the judge's stand for track. The climbs are way easier with a motorcycle. :)

And...... now back to your regular climbing content!!

ErikaNWwrote: Thanks for the nice messages about my cycling past - it feels like a lifetime ago now. I hesitated posting anything as it feels a lot like spraying.
@IdahoBob - ha ha! Going uphill has never really been my specialty and even less so now. I have discovered there is a really easy way to decrease suffering on a bike - go slower! I employ that tactic on the regular and don't even feel bad about it
And...... now back to your regular climbing content!!

A few years ago on Mallorca. I had been there 3 or 4 weeks and was feeling good about my riding.  One morning I was on the climb from Soller to Valdemosa and one of the tour teams that was there for training passed me.  8 young guys.  After passing me I swear they slowed just a little.  Pissed me off. So I passed them. A couple of minutes later they passed again, and then slowed.  I was really pissed.  So I hammered as long and hard as I could, maybe 400 meters.  Next thing they pass me like I was standing still.  Tried to stay with them.  No way.  They were out of sight quickly.  End of my delusions that I could still climb (on my bike)!

I don't deep water solo, but there are a lot of quality limestone sport climbs and a cool multi-pitch mixed climb up Puig Major if you know how to sneak through the small army base (they don't really care). From the top you can see most of the island.

I'm making posole today, the extremely slow way.

Start with Oneida white flour corn. From your garden five or six years ago, when you grew out every bit you had, for seed saving. From seed saved by an old gent in Maine, sent years before that, a year before he was gone. Winnow this before proceeding.
Into an enamel pot with plenty of water, bring to a boil, then add baking soda (wood ashes are traditional) and it goes very bright orange! Boil for an hour or two, until light yellow. Then, scrub the kernels in cold water until you get the hulls off. You have just nixmatilized (sp?) corn! At this point, with the hulls off, it's still quite hard and, if you dry it again, and get out your handy dandy stone tools, you can now grind it into masa, for tamales or tortillas. 

But, I'm going for hominy for posole, so....into the pot and boiled. Several changes of water and more hours. It will swell 4-6 times the size it was.

Tonight or tomorrow, this will become a pot of posole, with meat, onions, green chillies, garlic, and likely green onions, cilantro, and maybe the greens off the chioggia beets I got from the market yesterday, green chard essentially.

This will be dinner Tuesday for our first night at City of Rocks, with people I love. Warm food, a campfire, renewing deep bonds of friendship.

And I will be remembering those who went before us.

One old man in Maine, who saved seeds for decades. His seeds came from someone in New York state who saved this seed from the Oneida people, formerly in New York. Those Oneida people were moved to the upper Midwest.

Where one day a request was sent, from the seed bank saving heritage seeds for native peoples, to an old lady in Idaho. The last known person outside of the Oneida to be saving this, separately curated, strain of this seed.

Sometimes? Slow, centuries slow, is best.

OLH

For those heading to City of Rocks (elevation 6,500 ft) next weekend, this was my driveway in McCall (elevation 5,000 ft) this afternoon.  I'll be there with friends from Boulder, hope we don't see too much of this.

F r i t zwrote: Greetings, O ye friends of superior chronological standing.

 I’m launching the next season of Sender’s Game Podcast and looking for stories from previous generations of climbers. I’ve interviewed many modern pros and found that I much prefer tales of Back in the Day when climbing was wilder and less commercialized

Previous guests of note have included the inimitable polymath Pat Ament, Jim Newberry and Arno Ilgner. This season we’ve got Stewart Green, Crusher Bartlett and hopefully Bryan Becker and Jimmy Dunn lined up as well.

If you have a story to share, feel free to PM me and we can set up a short Skype call, or I’ll be in SLC / City of Rocks / the Fins / Lander for the next four months.

(I realize that the market is oversaturated with climbing podcasts right now, but most seem to be infatuated with contemporary bone-crushing kids who grew up on plastic. I’d prefer to give a voice to the previous generations of trailblazers and preserve the oral tradition for posterity . )

(cast)

Old lady Hwrote: I'm making posole today, the extremely slow way.

Start with Oneida white flour corn. From your garden five or six years ago, when you grew out every bit you had, for seed saving. From seed saved by an old gent in Maine, sent years before that, a year before he was gone. Winnow this before proceeding.

Into an enamel pot with plenty of water, bring to a boil, then add baking soda (wood ashes are traditional) and it goes very bright orange! Boil for an hour or two, until light yellow. Then, scrub the kernels in cold water until you get the hulls off. You have just nixmatilized (sp?) corn! At this point, with the hulls off, it's still quite hard and, if you dry it again, and get out your handy dandy stone tools, you can now grind it into masa, for tamales or tortillas.

But, I'm going for hominy for posole, so....into the pot and boiled. Several changes of water and more hours. It will swell 4-6 times the size it was.

Tonight or tomorrow, this will become a pot of posole, with meat, onions, green chillies, garlic, and likely green onions, cilantro, and maybe the greens off the chioggia beets I got from the market yesterday, green chard essentially.

This will be dinner Tuesday for our first night at City of Rocks, with people I love. Warm food, a campfire, renewing deep bonds of friendship.

And I will be remembering those who went before us.

One old man in Maine, who saved seeds for decades. His seeds came from someone in New York state who saved this seed from the Oneida people, formerly in New York. Those Oneida people were moved to the upper Midwest.

Where one day a request was sent, from the seed bank saving heritage seeds for native peoples, to an old lady in Idaho. The last known person outside of the Oneida to be saving this, separately curated, strain of this seed.

Sometimes? Slow, centuries slow, is best.

OLH

Hey Helen... I think I missed your itinerary to COR!  I know you have something planned for September, but what are you doing this week?  It sounds wonderful.  How far is City of Rocks from where you live, and what will you do if there is snow?  I apologize if I missed a post about this.

Your pesole looks heavenly. I was sort of shocked to see your pics and description because I opened that post as I was standing in our local grocery store buying up stuff for my chicken/lime/cilantro soup with corn.  Mine is not coming from my  garden this year.  But we seem to have had a similar craving... yours will be that much more special because of all the love.  

I'm adding blue corn tortilla strips and avocado to mine... :-)