CDC Recommendations

Shout out to everyone blowing their spring season at the recommendation of MP "Scientists"...

https://www.livescience.com/cdc-coronavirus-surfaces-update.html

Terrible self contradictory article.

Headline "The coronavirus 'does not spread easily' from touching surfaces or objects, CDC says"

From text of article:

"The CDC has published a set of guidelines on how to clean and disinfect surfaces. "Current evidence suggests that SARS-CoV-2 may remain viable for hours to days on surfaces made from a variety of materials," the agency still says in their guidelines. "Cleaning of visibly dirty surfaces followed by disinfection is a best practice measure for prevention of COVID-19 and other viral respiratory illnesses in households and community settings."

"The best way to protect yourself from COVID-19 is to maintain good social distance (about 6 feet), wash your hands often with soap and water and routinely clean and disinfect frequently touched surfaces, according to the CDC."

mountainhick wrote: Terrible self contradictory article.

Headline "The coronavirus 'does not spread easily' from touching surfaces or objects, CDC says"

From text of article:

"The CDC has published a set of guidelines on how to clean and disinfect surfaces. "Current evidence suggests that SARS-CoV-2 may remain viable for hours to days on surfaces made from a variety of materials," the agency still says in their guidelines. "Cleaning of visibly dirty surfaces followed by disinfection is a best practice measure for prevention of COVID-19 and other viral respiratory illnesses in households and community settings."

"The best way to protect yourself from COVID-19 is to maintain good social distance (about 6 feet), wash your hands often with soap and water and routinely clean and disinfect frequently touched surfaces, according to the CDC."

Nothing you wrote is contradictory. 

And to the OP, the biggest problem has never been touted as direct transmission from the surfaces, but general travel restrictions and potential human contacts. No need for this thread.

Hope for Movement wrote:

Nothing you wrote is contradictory. 

And to the OP, the biggest problem has never been touted as direct transmission from the surfaces, but general travel restrictions and potential human contacts. No need for this thread.

LOL! I didn't write it. It is quoted from the article.

While I understand your literal interpretation, I disagree in that the title implies something which the CDC guidelines quoted in the article do not support.

I'm fine to agree to disagree on this point

mountainhick wrote:

LOL! I didn't write it. It is quoted from the article.

While I understand your literal interpretation, I disagree in that the title implies something which the CDC guidelines quoted in the article do not support.

I'm fine to agree to disagree on this point

I know you didn't write it - but even what you bolded isn't contradictory. The CDC didn't write this article either, and if you read it, it states that sure, the virus is not transmitted easily and this is not the most important mechanism. Still a best practice would be to wash your hands and clean surfaces, and not rely 100% on social distancing, even though it is not easily spread by surfaces. It's not an 'agree to disagree situation', its the ability to critically evaluate and comprehend the article. Um... the literal reading is not an interpretation, it is the actual facts conveyed by the CDC website and the article. No reading between the lines or interpretation needed. Perhaps you didn't understand it or misread something.

You have the last word sir.

mountainhick wrote: You have the last word, sir or madam.

I take it that means you went back and re-read the article and realize what you wrote is wrong. Or perhaps you can clarify? Typical response.

Hope for Movement wrote:

I take it that means you went back and re-read the article and realize what you wrote is wrong. Or perhaps you can clarify? Typical response.

I think it means he doesn't want to argue with you anymore.

Childish Gumbino wrote: Shout out to everyone blowing their spring season at the recommendation of MP "Scientists"...

https://www.livescience.com/cdc-coronavirus-surfaces-update.html

It was never about the surfaces it was about traveling from the city to rural areas and spreading the virus around. Most states had a travel ban. Areas being closed was an unfortunate side effect of inability to trust out of town climbers to stay away. 

Well, the username is Childish Gumbino. What's that Maya Angelou quote? "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time." 

L Kap wrote: Well, the username is Childish Gumbino. What's that Maya Angelou quote? "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time." 

The other big problem with the OP is conflating what was said on MP over two months ago, when not a lot was known about a new virus, with recent research.

Breaking study says it turns out being an asshole was cool but you’re still an asshole.

72 hours on plastic. Sounds like climbing gyms are doomed. 

RER wrote: 72 hours on plastic. Sounds like climbing gyms are doomed. 

Guess there’s a silver lining in just about anything.

Whether the disease lasts 30 sec or 48 hours on a surface is irrelevant if you follow proper hygiene.  The disease does not directly enter through the pores of your skin; you have to either touch your mouth or your eyes with hands infected by it.  Liquid chalk and maybe sanitizer stations covers direct contact, the real problem with climbing gyms is that they’re indoors.

This is the science of epidemiology.
SOURCE: https://medicine.yale.edu/profile/jonathan_p_smith/

"As an infectious disease epidemiologist, at this point I feel morally obligated to provide some information on what we are seeing from a transmission dynamic perspective and how they apply to the social distancing measures. Like any good scientist I have noticed two things that are either not being articulated or not present in the “literature” of social media. I have also relied on my much smarter infectious disease epidemiologist friends for peer review of this post; any edits are from that peer review.

Specifically, I want to make two aspects of these measures very clear and unambiguous.

First, we are in the beginning of this epidemic’s trajectory. That means even with these distancing measures we will see cases and deaths continue to rise globally, nationally, and in our own communities in the coming weeks. This may lead some people to think that the social distancing measures are not working. They are. They may feel futile. They aren’t. You will feel discouraged. You should. This is normal in chaos. But this is normal epidemic trajectory. Stay calm. This enemy that we are facing is very good at what it does; we are not failing. We need everyone to hold the line as the epidemic inevitably gets worse.

This is not my opinion; this is the unforgiving math of epidemics for which I and my colleagues have dedicated our lives to understanding with great nuance, and this disease is no exception. I want to help the community brace for this impact. Stay strong and with solidarity knowing with absolute certainty that what you are doing is saving lives, even as people begin getting sick and dying. You may feel like giving in. Don’t.

Second, although social distancing measures have been (at least temporarily) well-received, there is an obvious-but-overlooked phenomenon when considering groups (i.e. families) in transmission dynamics. While social distancing decreases contact with members of society, it typically increases your contacts with family members / very close friends. This small and obvious fact has surprisingly profound implications on disease transmission dynamics. Study after study demonstrates that even if there is only a little bit of connection between groups (i.e. social dinners, playdates/playgrounds, etc.), the epidemic isn’t much different than if there was no measure in place. The same underlying fundamentals of disease transmission apply, and the result is that the community is left with all of the social and economic disruption but very little public health benefit.

You should perceive your entire family to function as a single individual unit; if one person puts themselves at risk, everyone in the unit is at risk. Seemingly small social chains get large and complex with alarming geometric speed. If your son visits his girlfriend, and you later sneak over for coffee with a neighbor, your neighbor is now connected to the infected office worker that your son’s girlfriend’s mother shook hands with. This sounds silly, it’s not. This is not a joke or a hypothetical. We as epidemiologists see it borne out in the data time and time again and no one listens. Conversely, any break in that chain breaks disease transmission along that whole chain.

In contrast to hand-washing and other personal measures, social distancing measures are not about individuals, they are about societies working in unison. These measures also take a long time to see the results. It is hard (even for me) to conceptualize how on a population level, ‘one quick little get together’ can undermine the entire framework of a public health intervention, but it does. I promise you it does. I promise. I promise. I promise.

You can’t cheat it. People are already itching to cheat on the social distancing precautions just a “little”- a playdate, a haircut, or picking up a needless item at the store, etc. From a transmission dynamics standpoint, this very quickly recreates a highly connected social network that undermines all of the work the community has done so far.
Until we get a viable vaccine this unprecedented outbreak will not be overcome in one grand, sweeping gesture, rather only by the collection of individual choices our community makes in the coming months. This virus is unforgiving to choices outside the rules.

My goal in writing this is to prevent communities from getting ‘sucker-punched’ by what the epidemiological community knows will happen in the coming weeks. It will be easy to be drawn to the idea that what we are doing isn’t working and become paralyzed by fear, or to just ‘cheat’ a little bit in the coming weeks. By knowing what to expect, and knowing the importance of maintaining these measures , my hope is to encourage continued community spirit, strategizing, and action to persevere in this time of uncertainty."

By Jonathan Smith, a lecturer in Epidemiology of Microbial Diseases and Global Health at Yale University School of Public Health. His research focuses on infectious disease transmission dynamics.

Your ability to Google does not make you more well informed than an epidemiologist who devoted years to studying human/disease interactions. 

M Appelquist wrote: From an epidemiological standpoint, what is the effectiveness of cloth masks as worn by the public related to the size and transmission of the virus? Are there net true benefits or does the affect outweigh the effect?

Assuming they are fitted properly, they do significantly reduce transmission, especially when also used in conjunction with social distancing protocols. You aren't trying to stop viral particles from leaving your mouth, you are trying to stop large water droplets from your breath CONTAINING particles, which is easily done with a cloth mask. 

Matt N wrote: This is the science of epidemiology.
SOURCE: https://medicine.yale.edu/profile/jonathan_p_smith/

"As an infectious disease epidemiologist, at this point I feel morally obligated to provide some information on what we are seeing from a transmission dynamic perspective and how they apply to the social distancing measures. Like any good scientist I have noticed two things that are either not being articulated or not present in the “literature” of social media. I have also relied on my much smarter infectious disease epidemiologist friends for peer review of this post; any edits are from that peer review.

Specifically, I want to make two aspects of these measures very clear and unambiguous.

First, we are in the beginning of this epidemic’s trajectory. That means even with these distancing measures we will see cases and deaths continue to rise globally, nationally, and in our own communities in the coming weeks. This may lead some people to think that the social distancing measures are not working. They are. They may feel futile. They aren’t. You will feel discouraged. You should. This is normal in chaos. But this is normal epidemic trajectory. Stay calm. This enemy that we are facing is very good at what it does; we are not failing. We need everyone to hold the line as the epidemic inevitably gets worse.

This is not my opinion; this is the unforgiving math of epidemics for which I and my colleagues have dedicated our lives to understanding with great nuance, and this disease is no exception. I want to help the community brace for this impact. Stay strong and with solidarity knowing with absolute certainty that what you are doing is saving lives, even as people begin getting sick and dying. You may feel like giving in. Don’t.

Second, although social distancing measures have been (at least temporarily) well-received, there is an obvious-but-overlooked phenomenon when considering groups (i.e. families) in transmission dynamics. While social distancing decreases contact with members of society, it typically increases your contacts with family members / very close friends. This small and obvious fact has surprisingly profound implications on disease transmission dynamics. Study after study demonstrates that even if there is only a little bit of connection between groups (i.e. social dinners, playdates/playgrounds, etc.), the epidemic isn’t much different than if there was no measure in place. The same underlying fundamentals of disease transmission apply, and the result is that the community is left with all of the social and economic disruption but very little public health benefit.

You should perceive your entire family to function as a single individual unit; if one person puts themselves at risk, everyone in the unit is at risk. Seemingly small social chains get large and complex with alarming geometric speed. If your son visits his girlfriend, and you later sneak over for coffee with a neighbor, your neighbor is now connected to the infected office worker that your son’s girlfriend’s mother shook hands with. This sounds silly, it’s not. This is not a joke or a hypothetical. We as epidemiologists see it borne out in the data time and time again and no one listens. Conversely, any break in that chain breaks disease transmission along that whole chain.

In contrast to hand-washing and other personal measures, social distancing measures are not about individuals, they are about societies working in unison. These measures also take a long time to see the results. It is hard (even for me) to conceptualize how on a population level, ‘one quick little get together’ can undermine the entire framework of a public health intervention, but it does. I promise you it does. I promise. I promise. I promise.

You can’t cheat it. People are already itching to cheat on the social distancing precautions just a “little”- a playdate, a haircut, or picking up a needless item at the store, etc. From a transmission dynamics standpoint, this very quickly recreates a highly connected social network that undermines all of the work the community has done so far.
Until we get a viable vaccine this unprecedented outbreak will not be overcome in one grand, sweeping gesture, rather only by the collection of individual choices our community makes in the coming months. This virus is unforgiving to choices outside the rules.

My goal in writing this is to prevent communities from getting ‘sucker-punched’ by what the epidemiological community knows will happen in the coming weeks. It will be easy to be drawn to the idea that what we are doing isn’t working and become paralyzed by fear, or to just ‘cheat’ a little bit in the coming weeks. By knowing what to expect, and knowing the importance of maintaining these measures , my hope is to encourage continued community spirit, strategizing, and action to persevere in this time of uncertainty."

By Jonathan Smith, a lecturer in Epidemiology of Microbial Diseases and Global Health at Yale University School of Public Health. His research focuses on infectious disease transmission dynamics.

Yep, here in Germany where things seem to be under control the easing of controls are starting to show exactly how tenous things really are. A Baptist church meeting 2 weeks ago with all the usual rules to prevent transmission, result 40 persons infected and an unconfirmed number hospitalised. 

It hasn't gone away, its still out there waiting to kill someone, anyone or everyone.

Actually singing is on the list of prohibitions but I'm not that familiar with Russian Baptist activities to know whether a bit of forceful chanting goes on or not!
It was all a bit of a hassle, unlike other places where contact details have to be taken for churches this wasn't the case leading to a load of work to trace the contacts.