Rumney Reopening?

Zach Swanson wrote:

Haha no way man. Our local gym has 200 people on a normal weekday night. Rumney is far more than that on a nice Saturday. I've seen around 100 at the Armed & Dangerous crag when the first nice day's in spring hit. 

Yup, it can get crowded, hence has some issues that need to be managed, but hundreds of people enjoy themselves and a few grumble that it is not roadside back country adventure climbing

David K wrote: I'm not entirely clear on what you're saying here. You can watch video from NY hospitals where hospital beds are in hallways, and doctors are interviewed saying that they are understaffed. Are you saying this had no effect on mortality rate?

Impossible to prove a counter factual, but probably did not impact the mortality rate in a meaningful way. My medical school classmates who work in NYC were indeed very overwhelmed, but for the most part I believe they never ran out of ventilators and were able to intubate everyone who needed it. That (and non-invasive ventilation/CPAP) are really the only things we do for CoVID patients that will impact mortality. For many conditions without a disease-modifying treatment, there’s always a good argument to be made that most of what we do doesn’t change outcomes anyway. 

Only a moron would argue that this disease is just the flu. It’s obviously much more dangerous; however, the evidence that we have suggests transmission outdoors specifically is quite a low risk. We’ll see how things shake out later this year. 

And yes, I’m well aware that the disease can spread rapidly in rural areas. I spent the first few years of my life on the Navajo Nation. 

M Sprague wrote:

Yup, it can get crowded, hence has some issues that need to be managed, but hundreds of people enjoy themselves and a few grumble that it is not roadside back country adventure climbing

Thats cause most of the experienced climbers avoid the place like the plague on weekends. The weekend crowd is almost all indoor climbers looking for a place similar to their gym and Rumney is that.

A Non wrote:

Thats cause most of the experienced climbers avoid the place like the plague on weekends. The weekend crowd is almost all indoor climbers looking for a place similar to their gym and Rumney is that.

Man you don't even to try hard to find the grump trad dads anymore, they out themselves immediately.

I for one want to vote for an extended closure because I have gotten wayyyyyyy too fat during quarantine for hard sport climbing.

Maybe you "experienced climbers" can recommend me something I can still chuff my way up though.

"You are a little bit, but not really. Maybe if you cared to actually look for data, instead of projecting you hopes & wishes, you would know."

I am what?  I don't understand your sentence.  As for the CDC chart, it most certainly doesn't reflect exponential growth, or any growth.  New daily cases has reached a plateau and has not been as high as April 4th.    Not sure why you think I'm cherry picking data.  Do you or David K from New Paltz even know what "exponential growth" means?  It would be today's cases were like 2x or 3x or 5x more than yesterdays.  Show me this data.  

Anyway, there is no raw count on the number of people using Rumney, so none of us know.  Either way, a few hundred people spread out across a wooded mountainside is absolutely NOTHING in the grand scheme of human/social proximity.  So many other aspects of society are coming back, it's funny to keep a niche sport that takes place in the wilderness closed.

Russ Keane wrote: "You are a little bit, but not really. Maybe if you cared to actually look for data, instead of projecting you hopes & wishes, you would know."

I am what?  I don't understand your sentence.  As for the CDC chart, it most certainly doesn't reflect exponential growth, or any growth.  New daily cases has reached a plateau and has not been as high as April 4th.    Not sure why you think I'm cherry picking data.  Do you or David K from New Paltz even know what "exponential growth" means?  It would be today's cases were like 2x or 3x or 5x more than yesterdays.  Show me this data.  

Anyway, there is no raw count on the number of people using Rumney, so none of us know.  Either way, a few hundred people spread out across a wooded mountainside is absolutely NOTHING in the grand scheme of human/social proximity.  So many other aspects of society are coming back, it's funny to keep a niche sport that takes place in the wilderness closed.

so you fully support people blatantly disregarding the 14 day recommend quarantine and recommendation from  the USFS, Access fund, etc, etc, etc to not travel long distances to rural Towns to climb? Most of these people also are upset about states lifting lockdowns and opening stores/etc. 

(This is my issue as it directly effect thousands of people and small businesses that I know).
New Jersey opened the beaches and in return small businesses got fed up and started opening.Only to have their utilities shut off and customers were tickets driving away. In PA They told my friend the earliest he could start his tattoo shop would likely be August/September. Yet his utilities/Rent/insurance aren’t going to quit stacking up.

If most people were denied camping, climbing, Starbucks, etc until August or September there would probably be more pressure to return things back to normal or find a long term solution that doesn’t gut a lot of people of their livelihood. Instead they open just enough to slap people in the face and let those who aren’t effected forget what people are dealing with. It’s because come
Election time those people are Worried Bitter people will remember in large numbers.

Is anyone going to bother answering my actual question?

Is anyone here directly involved with RCA/etc for that matter..?

I know at least one current member is an admin on here but they mostly stay off mountain project because of stuff like this. They might get murdered by mob of of people on here

Rumny is a total shit show in the best of circumstances. How the fck will they ever be able to behave in a pandemic?   not happening.     Mass.  had 1,114 new cases and 82 deaths yesterday..  NH was 214 new cases and 17 deaths...  both of them are still showing a steep uphill curve. VT is flat and declining. Stay the fck away from us please!

Russ Keane wrote: Anyway, there is no raw count on the number of people using Rumney, so none of us know.  Either way, a few hundred people spread out across a wooded mountainside is absolutely NOTHING in the grand scheme of human/social proximity.  So many other aspects of society are coming back, it's funny to keep a niche sport that takes place in the wilderness closed.

Right. So you bring out bogus numbers first, then once it's pointed out those numbers aren't even close to realistic, then "nobody can tell". Totally makes sense.

Nick Goldsmith wrote: Rumny is a total shit show in the best of circumstances. How the fck will they ever be able to behave in a pandemic?   not happening.     Mass.  had 1,114 new cases and 82 deaths yesterday..  NH was 214 new cases and 17 deaths...  both of them are still showing a steep uphill curve. VT is flat and declining. Stay the fck away from us please!

Live free and kill others, its constitutional!!!  Remember the beginning when one of the first positives in NH was told to quarantine and then chose to go out and infect a bunch of people? That is one reason NH is suffering.

The anti mask people who think its their constitutional right to not wear one deserve major shaming, its helping everything stay shut if its doing anything. America has a shit ton of narcissistic assholes with no common sense...

Matt Desenberg wrote:

Sorta hard to entertain creative problem solving when people can't handle basic problem solving, like wearing a mask during a pandemic and standing on big chalked "Xs" at the grocery store...

That isn’t “problem solving” - it is complying with  orders

Robert Hall wrote:

Kevin, the issue with that is "antibody testing":  of the 170 or so antibody tests "out there", I think only two (2) have even provisional/emergency approval by the FDA.  

Does anybody believe that 80,000,000 "Americans" (25% of 330m) have actually had the virus and didn't know they had it?!  With 1.6m in the USA having tested positive (I assume this is one of the tests for the virus itself, not for antibodies) that would mean 98% of the people have been exposed enough to develop antibodies, but didn't know it.

Somehow, I think Occam's Razor points more towards flawed, untested, and unapproved antibody tests giving false positives (perhaps by detecting similar antibodies???) than that 80m of us have been exposed / had the disease and not know it.  

80% of those who get it need and/or seek no medical care.  Many of those won't get tested unless they work in a field that requires they be tested.  Many people were not getting referrals for tests and there were shortages of tests in March.  We had NO widespread testing through all of January and February, when it is now known the virus had begun its spread here. It's easy to assume a majority and likely higher than 51% of covid cases are going untraced.

We had many more cases in March than we had tested for. We continue to have more cases than we are testing for. The lack of testing caused the spike in March [delayed response], lack of testing will lead to another spike eventually [premature reopening in hot spots].  Testing is inconvenient to those who want to open the economy and let the virus run rampant so their pockets are no longer impacted.  Infection testing is in direct conflict with the current administration's (and many State's) goals to reopen.  Having a widespread and accurate antibody test would be very helpful, but it only tells us who can return to work and how much further we can fall.

A Non wrote:

Live free and kill others, its constitutional!!!  Remember the beginning when one of the first positives in NH was told to quarantine and then chose to go out and infect a bunch of people? That is one reason NH is suffering.

The anti mask people who think its their constitutional right to not wear one deserve major shaming, its helping everything stay shut if its doing anything. America has a shit ton of narcissistic assholes with no common sense...

Actually alot of the cases in NH are people commuting to MA for business or people from Out of state visiting NH for Recreation. This is the same issue that faces the ocean front counties in NJ. Most of their cases came from NYC/Philly cases when people left the city to recreate

A acquaintance was exposed to two Out of staters over the weekend who started showing symptoms on Sunday evening (he had contact with them Saturday when he went to fix a plumbing issue at their vacation home). They apparently had been in staying in NH this whole time, but turns out they ran home for two days to grab stuff and came back to their vacation home.There was also a confirmed case at a gas station in the MWV (likely from the large amount of visitors over the weekend). 

Also, the entire mask benefit is skeptical at best unless you are wearing a N95 and follow the decontamination guidelines. I will watch people put on a mask outside a store and then take it off after touching 1000 things. In the process the touch their nose/mouth/face with contaminated hands. Even better is they have a mask that isn’t even on properly and think it will do anything.

Dales DeadBug wrote:

That isn’t “problem solving” - it is complying with  orders

Thinking for yourself doesn't mean that you shoot yourself in the face if the government tells you not to. That's just another way of letting other people's actions determine your actions.

Kevin Heckeler wrote:

80% of those who get it need and/or seek no medical care.  Many of those won't get tested unless they work in a field that requires they be tested.  Many people were not getting referrals for tests and there were shortages of tests in March.  We had NO widespread testing through all of January and February, when it is now known the virus had begun its spread here. It's easy to assume a majority and likely higher than 51% of covid cases are going untraced.

We had many more cases in March than we had tested for. We continue to have more cases than we are testing for. The lack of testing caused the spike in March [delayed response], lack of testing will lead to another spike eventually [premature reopening in hot spots].  Testing is inconvenient to those who want to open the economy and let the virus run rampant so their pockets are no longer impacted.  Infection testing is in direct conflict with the current administration's (and many State's) goals to reopen.  Having a widespread and accurate antibody test would be very helpful, but it only tells us who can return to work and how much further we can fall.

Even with testing it would be damn near impossible to know who can return to work. 

One of the cases in AK a person who tested negative, went through a self monitored quarantine and were asymptomatic. they were allowed to go to work in a rural area. The results were wrong and the person was in shared housing with a bunch of other workers for like a week+ until he showed symptoms.

It’s a Junk show and really at this point people need to look at what they are willing to risk on a personal level. I know many who would rather risk getting COVID than the financial burden they are facing. Neither side really has a good answer and the current way of dealing with a cOVID exposure in the workplace makes it hard to justify the risk for many employers (including government agencies). 

Insert name wrote:

Also, the entire mask benefit is skeptical at best unless you are wearing a N95 and follow the decontamination guidelines.

No, it isn't skeptical at all.
Once again........the mask is not to protect the wearer.
The primary mission of wearing a mask is to protect others from your spit and droplets, esp. when you are asymptomatic/presymptomatic.
Why does this seem to be such a hard concept to grasp?

Maybe a graphic will help:

Marc801 C wrote: No, it isn't skeptical at all.
Once again........the mask is not to protect the wearer.
The primary mission of wearing a mask is to protect others from your spit and droplets, esp. when you are asymptomatic/presymptomatic.
Why does this seem to be such a hard concept to grasp?

Maybe a graphic will help:

Its the main reason I wear a mask in public, basic respect towards others is easy. Even a bandana.

hmmmm lot of useless rhetoric on here, i assume most of y'all had a VD, got cured by a cvs pharmacist and that's how u became experts in pathology. As a emergency repair tech in boston frequently in Rona buildings i self isolate and disinfect myself like a mofo, i wont be hitting rumney or NH any time soon (sadly tis my jam proj at every crag) i'd urge others to do the same if they in my shoes, wearing the mask even if it only saves peeps from smelling my shit breath is super EZ. Walking through armed and dangerous last summer we counted 60+ folks climbing or belaying from ali babler to whimpy gilman, not counting hammocks and shit. My only point being there is no possible way to social distance that kinda mess