What does your Woody look like??? 2.0

Andrew Mertens wrote: Does anyone who built an adjustable wall regret it/barely change the angle? It seems really nice to be able to mix up style/difficulty of problems by changing the angle, but I'm curious if the extra engineering or lack of board stiffness makes it not worth the effort. I'm thinking of building an outdoor moonboard-dimensions wall at ~35 degrees between 4 posts set in concrete, but deciding between making it adjustable or fixed.

I'm extremely psyched with the adjustability and change the angle during basically every session, but a lot of the reasons I like it might not be reasons you have. The biggest for me is the ability to warm up at a gentler angle. You're quite a bit younger than I am so you may not care about that or are good with just using jugs. Also, 40 degrees is just too steep to be much use to me right now, but hopefully with training it will be before long and when that happens, I'll have a 40 degree wall. You can also use that same idea to project your way up the full intended difficulty of the board if you are doing a Kilter/Tension/Moon system. And lastly my wife will likely never be comfortable with even 20 degrees, and my daughters are not yet there either. So if you want to make the board accessible to climbers at a more basic level as I did, it's totally great for that. 

It is (I thought) much more challenging to build than a fixed board. But solving that puzzle was an end in itself for me and I really enjoyed the engineering and construction of it too.

here’s my training temple. Check out @kalenglenn on Instagram to see some of the problems set on it.  Huge fan of making my own wood holds. 

some homemade Madrone wood holds

Woody and crack machine

Optimistic wrote:

I'm extremely psyched with the adjustability and change the angle during basically every session, but a lot of the reasons I like it might not be reasons you have. The biggest for me is the ability to warm up at a gentler angle. You're quite a bit younger than I am so you may not care about that or are good with just using jugs. Also, 40 degrees is just too steep to be much use to me right now, but hopefully with training it will be before long and when that happens, I'll have a 40 degree wall. You can also use that same idea to project your way up the full intended difficulty of the board if you are doing a Kilter/Tension/Moon system. And lastly my wife will likely never be comfortable with even 20 degrees, and my daughters are not yet there either. So if you want to make the board accessible to climbers at a more basic level as I did, it's totally great for that. 

It is (I thought) much more challenging to build than a fixed board. But solving that puzzle was an end in itself for me and I really enjoyed the engineering and construction of it too.

Thanks! That's really helpful. I'm planning a spraywall-style setup, just with moonboard dimensions, so it will be easier to have warmup problems/easier problems for others. I think you've convinced me that the time/money would be better spent buying more holds/building volumes/expanding the climbing surface versus making it adjustable. 

Not a fan of volumes on smaller spray walls.

Optimistic wrote:

Looking good! 

Maybe you have this already, but if not you might want add a couple of pieces of blocking between the floor joist everything is tied to and the next joist over, to spread the lateral load on the floor joist. Probably overkill but a little added piece of mind and very easy to do. 

There is already some bracing between joists in place at the one end, but I do plan to add another piece at the other end.  of the overhang.  

Finished the framing this morning.  Now working on hammering in 288 t-nuts.  Went with the 8x8" grid.  Already debating if I want to offset and add more.  I don't have enough t-nuts on hand to do it, luckily I could add them after the ply is hung since access from the back is easy enough.  

Only 20 degrees overhanging on this side, with a little corner to cover that cleanout in the floor.  

Will ply all the way up the side and over the floor joists.

Used cap nuts on the outside of the crack machine.  Plan to make some screw on wooden holds to go over top of them since there will be ply up this side all the way to the ceiling.  

Andrew Mertens wrote:

Thanks! That's really helpful. I'm planning a spraywall-style setup, just with moonboard dimensions, so it will be easier to have warmup problems/easier problems for others. I think you've convinced me that the time/money would be better spent buying more holds/building volumes/expanding the climbing surface versus making it adjustable. 

I forgot you asked about stiffness with the adjustable wall: using chain to anchor it once the wall is in position makes mine feel like a fixed angle wall as long as it's past about 12-15 degrees. 

Karl Walters wrote: Not a fan of volumes on smaller spray walls.

I’d say they’re better suited on a dedicated project or problem wall. They take up too much valuable real estate on a spray wall and will cause blind spots to occur where you can’t see the holds on the far side or you jam your *insert appendage here* against it in dynamic movement. 

The Momentum chain always puts them on their spray walls mainly the lower angle ones and they add absolutely zero value. I could totally see it on a really wide or large wall, but you can get a lot of the same movement by just setting better.

Andrew Mertens wrote: Does anyone who built an adjustable wall regret it/barely change the angle? It seems really nice to be able to mix up style/difficulty of problems by changing the angle, but I'm curious if the extra engineering or lack of board stiffness makes it not worth the effort. I'm thinking of building an outdoor moonboard-dimensions wall at ~35 degrees between 4 posts set in concrete, but deciding between making it adjustable or fixed.

I am very glad i made my wall adjustable, I can get so much more out of it.  If it was just fixed it would always be a comprise.

Optimistic wrote:

I forgot you asked about stiffness with the adjustable wall: using chain to anchor it once the wall is in position makes mine feel like a fixed angle wall as long as it's past about 12-15 degrees. 

My climbing surface is 12'long and the board is stiffer than the walltopia walls my gym has.

I'm also a big fan of having an adjustable board. I can really vary my workouts.  Warm up, endurance, power all on the same board, and all in one session if desired.  Plus if I'm having trouble with a problem I can take 5-10 degrees off the overhang and work through it to dial the movement.  My board pivots on the CG of the wall.  The pro's of this is it's simpler/faster to adjust than the winch setup, and doesn't have the noisy chain issues. The con's are you lose the kickboard/full kickboard as you reduce the angle.  On a moonboard this makes several of the 25 degree problems really hard to start or basically impossible if the start holds are too low.  But overall I'm pretty happy with the compromise.

Phil Sakievich wrote: I'm also a big fan of having an adjustable board. I can really vary my workouts.  Warm up, endurance, power all on the same board, and all in one session if desired.  Plus if I'm having trouble with a problem I can take 5-10 degrees off the overhang and work through it to dial the movement.  My board pivots on the CG of the wall.  The pro's of this is it's simpler/faster to adjust than the winch setup, and doesn't have the noisy chain issues. The con's are you lose the kickboard/full kickboard as you reduce the angle.  On a moonboard this makes several of the 25 degree problems really hard to start or basically impossible if the start holds are too low.  But overall I'm pretty happy with the compromise.

I'm happy I made mine adjustable too. I climb mostly at 40, but switching to 25 is a nice change of pace when I feel stuck on my 40 projects. At 25, I can use legitimately small holds, like the Moonboard yellows, that are quite tweaky at 40 (looking at you, G18 and C15 (2017 set)). And then switching back to 40 feels WILD.

When quarantine ends, it will be even better, for several reasons:

25 feels a lot more accessible to a wider range of abilities, so when friends can come over I imagine we'll spend more time at 25. And it allows a lot more options for training endurance. Throwing myself at limit 40 degree problems fits my mood right now during quarantine, but someday I will want to train endurance and setting loops on smallish holds will be better training for sport climbing. I can set 15-22 move loops at 25. Link a few together and that's a sport route.

The "engineering" was probably a little more difficult but not insurmountable. Many fixed-angle outdoor builds have support posts that come close to the fall zone, which is something I wanted to avoid. And once you solve that problem, you're more than halfway to building a wall that can be made adjustable.

I don't consider myself that strong (probably maxing out on v8-9 problems, v9-10 individual moves), but setting some jugs on the side I can loop together v4-v6 climbs for 16-20 total moves at 45. Albeit it is easier at say, 25, but it's possible. No issue using 8mm and below crimps either. Don't get me wrong- if I could make things adjustable without a winch setup I would consider it, but you can still make a fixed wall work juuuuuust fine.

Yeah I’m usually a V4-V5 climber and I can usually set pretty manageable circuits on the 45 if I mostly use jugs.  Too steep for true endurance climbing, more of a power endurance thing, but I’m hoping I can switch out holds for less positive ones as I get stronger.

Here’s a fun new wood hold I just made and mounted.  Had to use this natural feature right?!
Too hard for the 30 degree section so it’s up on the short vert section at the top. 

Just finished installing last roof panel.  Hard to see because of the light blur but it’s a recessed can that I installed into the plywood.

Ted Pinson wrote:

Just finished installing last roof panel.  Hard to see because of the light blur but it’s a recessed can that I installed into the plywood.

https://www.mountainproject.com/v/105717526

If you consider the recessed light “on” (pun absolutely intended), then this classic trad route can have a boulder problem counterpart 

kalen glenn wrote:

Here’s a fun new wood hold I just made and mounted.  Had to use this natural feature right?!
Too hard for the 30 degree section so it’s up on the short vert section at the top. 

Awesome hold. How do your wooden holds hold up outside? Any particular finish that you use to seal them? I may just use the deck paint with sand or whatever in it to increase friction that I used on the wall to protect it, but curious what your experience has been.