Garrett Hopkins wrote: It's interesting to see this pop up. I recently had two things happen that really made me reconsider my ropeless aspirations.
1- I took a friend out to do their first lead on gear on one of the easy casual routes at our local cliff, it happens to be one of my favorite short routes to do laps on without a rope. I followed on toprope and cleaned gear while critiquing their placements. Out of nowhere, a footchip broke and I fell completely unexpectedly. Its a bit spooky to think how that could have gone down differently.
2- at the same crag, I took a day to go out by myself and get a few solos in. I decided to get on a route I had done with a rope many many times and never fallen off. I arrived at the crux and found out that a pretty key hold had been ripped off by someone else. That was the first time I had to make a few moves without a rope that I was pretty sure I wouldn't be able to reverse.
Maybe I need to quit soloing our local choss or maybe the universe is trying to tell me something. Either way, you really need to consider if you're ok with the consequences of fucking up. What was said earlier about taking huge falls / decking while climbing with a rope is right. You should understand what happens when you fall for a long time. If you're asking other people if you should solo, you shouldn't solo. It's a pretty personal thing

Both of these stories are excellent examples what is left to chance in soloing. And this is one person who in other circumstances would have had two opportunities to crater on routes he knew. A lesson here is that it wouldn't have mattered how well he knew these routes, nor how much traffic they get. The ticking time bombs were in there, ready to fail.

What would have happened to Garrett in each of these cases had he fallen? Think about ledges, bounces, rocks at the bottom, chance of surviving, hospital bills, rehab, funeral, loved ones. Was he wearing a helmet? Would it have mattered? Would it have resulted in closure of the location? Disrepute to the climbing community.

I understand the appeal completely. If there was no risk, I would solo too.

My good friend Austin Howell was a prolific and talented soloist.
Last summer a hold broke off on a route well below his soloing limit. He is dead now, and we all miss him dearly.
Pour one out for your homies.

All climbers do more soloing than they acknowledge and/or realize.  This is especially true when starting out; shitty placements, not properly protecting ledge falls, general malaise of inexperienced belayers, etc.... As you gain more experience, more soloing occurs; 4th-easy 5th class approaches, WI steps, ridge scrambles...  

Climbing is risky business, you'll hopefully figure out the right amount for yourself in time.  Don't purposefully rush the process.

Bro, if you're out there doing like 5.3 and shit, it's kinda not a big deal.

Russ Keane wrote: Bro, if you're out there doing like 5.3 and shit, it's kinda not a big deal.

They say 5.3 is the gateway drug 

Derek Field wrote:

They say 5.3 is the gateway drug 

The gateway drug is when you do a 7+ with nothing but air under your feet

Jason Todd wrote: All climbers do more soloing than they acknowledge and/or realize.  This is especially true when starting out; shitty placements, not properly protecting ledge falls, general malaise of inexperienced belayers, etc.... As you gain more experience, more soloing occurs; 4th-easy 5th class approaches, WI steps, ridge scrambles...  

Climbing is risky business, you'll hopefully figure out the right amount for yourself in time.  Don't purposefully rush the process.

This.

One of the two deaths in local crags that I know of was a hiker crossing a land bridge in inclement weather. She slipped on wet rock. This is a spot that climbers, myself included, cross all the time without thought or comment. That's a free soloing death in my book, but I bet if you surveyed the climbers who have crossed that land bridge in the past few years, a lot of them would say they've never free soloed.

There are a bunch of spots along Breakneck Ridge where if you fell you would die, as evidenced by the fact that people do fall and die occasionally. Keep in mind this is a route listed on Hiking Project, not Mountain Project, because it's not considered a climbing route. Thousands of people hike this trail every year.

The way I see it, if your movement skills are the only things keeping you from falling to your death, then you're free soloing. There isn't some magical level of difficulty where easier is hiking but harder that's suddenly free soloing. The question isn't whether you free solo, but how difficult you free solo and under what conditions.

Having looked at your profile I would be worried. When I was a 5.10 climber I would NEVER consider soloing. When you're climbing grades in that range, that really doesn't give you a lot of room for error, especially since if you get to a point you'll have to downclimb, add two letter grades to the section you have to downclimb, think you can execute it perfectly now? I'll tell you a story. I once soloed as you did. When I did most of my soloing I younger and dumber and was consistently redpointing 5.12a, as well as consistently onsighting 11c/d. I was only soloing up to about 10c, which is far more margin for error gradewise than what you seem to be doing. Why did I stop? Once, when I went to the beach with friends, I saw a cool looking wall above the beach which we were hanging out on, probably about 50ft tall, and I thought, why not, it looks juggy, I'll solo it. As I was 30ish feet off the deck, on what was probably 5.9ish terrain, I reached up to a jug and pulled on it, as I did the entire jug ripped out of the wall, I began to barndoor off as it was a long move to reach that hold, as I did, I managed to lower myself back onto my very low footholds with my right hand. I was spooked. Even on only 5.9 terrain, on a long move when you're not expecting it, its really that easy for a hold to break off. I then downclimbed the 30 or so feet to the ground. I never soloed again. Take from that what you will.

S2k 4life wrote:

The gateway drug is when you do a 7+ with nothing but air under your feet

Been there,  whitney gillman, 1985. Haven't soloed since.

Why don't you do some more trad climbing and see what happens with that...

My helmet was hit by falling rock on Half Dome & El Capitan , Some  kicked off by tourists on Half Dome & there are lot more people now than the bad old days . Once at Lovers Leap an idiot pushed a large log off the top ! 

I hate when the OP ghosts the rest of the thread...

Russ Keane wrote: I hate when the OP ghosts the rest of the thread...

But he didn't. Have a look

snowdenroad wrote:

Been there,  whitney gillman, 1985. Haven't soloed since.

Gotta love those "old school" 5.7's , eh?!  

"There is certainly no reason for the recreational climber to ever even consider it".

John Long, 'How to Rock Climb' 4th edition, page 160.

Pat, after looking at your profile and noticing your first trad lead was just several weeks ago......Perhaps, you are just experiencing that new climbers high, euphoric feeling and laser focus after being on the sharp end of the rope for the first time. I'm not going to sit on my couch, drinking my cup of coffee and tell you why you shouldn't solo. You're a free man to make your own decisions. But, I would be very happy to post here or send you a picture of what my head and body looked like after decking while soloing and the trauma I caused myself(and family).  It was a VERY hard lesson learned and one that i'm thankful to be alive and fully functioning to be able to share. Think twice brother! There are some "risk vs: rewards" in life not worth doing and for me, soloing is among the top. Go jump on a 5.10 and run it out on the hardest pitch(es) or put some pro far below the crux and then see where your head is at. I feel you may think twice about soloing after running it out on your red point leading capabilities ;) 

Awesome post Colin.   My morbid self wants to know more about your fall... and glimpse the photos.  But obviously not appropriate.

I'm impressed how reasonable this thread has been! Rad.

Soloing is incredibly personal and it is a bit strange to discuss it on an public forum, that being said... Few people want to encourage someone to solo, because nobody wants to be the person who pushed someone else to go past their ability/comfort level and take a chance they shouldn't have, and I think that's great!! Part of soloing is being able to see through the haze of societal dialogue and pressures and make an honest, personal decision about what you want in your own life. It's not something anyone should ever feel pressured into. Its very meditative. And I believe decisions on soloing should come from that personal headspace where you KNOW what you want, and you don't need to listen to anyone else telling you what to do. Being mentally prepared to make those types of decisions and be honest with yourself and mentally wrestle with the possible consequences is a big part of soloing. Soloing is a very different activity from roped climbing and involves different skills and understanding to do safely. Being a 5.12 climber doesn't mean you can go solo a 5.7 safely. Roped climbing gives you some of the skills necessary for soloing and will help you begin to learn some of the others, but soloing is very different from climbing on a rope. Grades don't really count for much. You have to learn to asses a route on your own, in the moment and know when to bail, regardless of what other people might tell you or think of you (like the "grade" of the route, or where the crux is, or whether or not other people think it should be easy for you). So don't fuck around, don't rush into anything, don't listen to someone telling you you should solo, and don't think that roped climbing will adequately prepare you for soloing. Its not something you can understand in a day or a week or a year and you should always be careful and progress slowly and ALWAYS be listening to your body, your mind, and your environment. Many things in society are neatly packaged and safety proofed. Climbing isn't. Soloing isn't. Climbing is about learning to make your own decisions in life and accepting responsibility for your actions. Roped climbing is nice because it eases you into that mindset, you can still go past your limit and whip and fuck up a few things and learn from your mistakes and probably still survive to lay in bed another night thinking about how stupid you were and how lucky you are to be alive. Soloing doesn't have that. Whatever you do, be careful. There are lots of ways to die while climbing.

ColinW wrote: Pat, after looking at your profile and noticing your first trad lead was just several weeks ago......Perhaps, you are just experiencing that new climbers high, euphoric feeling and laser focus after being on the sharp end of the rope for the first time. I'm not going to sit on my couch, drinking my cup of coffee and tell you why you shouldn't solo. You're a free man to make your own decisions. But, I would be very happy to post here or send you a picture of what my head and body looked like after decking while soloing and the trauma I caused myself(and family).  It was a VERY hard lesson learned and one that i'm thankful to be alive and fully functioning to be able to share. Think twice brother! There are some "risk vs: rewards" in life not worth doing and for me, soloing is among the top. Go jump on a 5.10 and run it out on the hardest pitch(es) or put some pro far below the crux and then see where your head is at. I feel you may think twice about soloing after running it out on your red point leading capabilities ;) 

Getting on a few runout climbs is great advice. 

Cheers Pat! I'm not saying this be a dick to you kid. But, don't be f---ing stupid and go free solo after only leading your first route. Go run it out on a 5.10 or 11. . Check your ego young grasshopper. I didn't and look what happened. ;) It changed my life.