New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #10

Senor Arroz wrote: So maybe these "irresponsible" people camping at Apple Valley are just similar people trying to weather a difficult situation. Just a thought. 

We know the feeling.  So here's the deal, most decisions that are made are based on people having a fixed residence.  This whole homeless but not destitute is such a foreign concept that it is not considered when making policy.   So we are not normal, go figure.  

I feel badly for your friends, we played the same musical chairs game.  Landed on a chair, we are good until the music starts again.  Could be a while, could be tomorrow.  Right now the nomadic life doesn't work, goes against the shelter in place thing.  So compromise is needed.  Can they totally boondock with minimal human contact? Go forth.  Do they need to interact to survive aka a job, they need to find an address.  

A lot of it has to do with where their money is coming from.  

So the perception that these are irresponsible people is false.  They are refugees.  People forced into a path they don't desire because of current affairs. These are good people, if you get an opportunity to help them please do.  

Ok, I am upset enough to want to start an adopt a van lifer society.  We are ok, our income comes from retirement stuff, but to be young, on the adventure of adventures, and then this happens.  My heart really goes out to them.  I have spent a few nights in my car between jobs, it sucks.  How can I help?

Dallas R wrote:

We know the feeling.  

  How can I help?

So glad you wrote this, Dallas.  "How can I help?" seems to me to be the question we should all be asking instead of the judgments.  I'm honestly SO surprised at the level of judgment and vitriol but I guess that comes with panic.  

I feel a bit homeless myself and we are not sure where we belong at this point.  We are 'here', in Joshua Tree, but it's not the trip I had planned yet, there have been many blessings.  Yesterday I stopped at the local health food store to pick up some produce... waited outside in our 6' apart line, in the loveliest weather talking to an elderly man, both of us in masks.  It was just nice to have some human contact, we're all in the same boat, and I'll remember him.  

Perhaps one gift from this time is we are learning to feel the vibe of being together 'in spirit'.  Climbers here are staying inside, for the good of the whole.  The world is blooming, just without us trampling all over it for awhile.  We are making connections of a newer deeper kind.  What I see is generosity, kindness, and the desire to help... from everyone but especially First Responders, medical professionals, cops, etc.  

When I was in Stater Bro's (local grocery store) last week, and the shelves were finally looking halfway full... the entire store erupted in spontaneous applause for all the clerks and stockers who had been up all night hustling product onto the shelf.  It was a very emotional moment.  Small gifts, which I suspect will become too numerous to count over time.    

My wife is going stir crazy by not being able to climb outside. So now she is improvising in the house.

Not too bad for a Grandma that will be 67 in 3 weeks.

John

Get her a pad! ;)

Dallas R wrote:

We know the feeling.  So here's the deal, most decisions that are made are based on people having a fixed residence.  This whole homeless but not destitute is such a foreign concept that it is not considered when making policy.   So we are not normal, go figure.  

I feel badly for your friends, we played the same musical chairs game.  Landed on a chair, we are good until the music starts again.  Could be a while, could be tomorrow.  Right now the nomadic life doesn't work, goes against the shelter in place thing.  So compromise is needed.  Can they totally boondock with minimal human contact? Go forth.  Do they need to interact to survive aka a job, they need to find an address.  

A lot of it has to do with where their money is coming from.  

So the perception that these are irresponsible people is false.  They are refugees.  People forced into a path they don't desire because of current affairs. These are good people, if you get an opportunity to help them please do.  

Ok, I am upset enough to want to start an adopt a van lifer society.  We are ok, our income comes from retirement stuff, but to be young, on the adventure of adventures, and then this happens.  My heart really goes out to them.  I have spent a few nights in my car between jobs, it sucks.  How can I help?

I do understand about the van people, Dallas, but from the info I got from my friend who lives on the road to the Apple valley crags and close to the climbing recognizes many of the vehicles that are coming and going to the crags that are not local but are quite frequent visitors to the crags but live in southern calif.
He and another friend of mine are the ones who wrote the latest guidebook to the areas and have put up maybe 75% of the routes in that area and are quite familiar with the regulars who go there.
Those are the irresponsible people I was talking about. 

Cosmiccragsman AKA Dwain wrote: Those are the irresponsible people I was talking about. 

I apologize if I insinuated you were calling nomads/van lifers/glamp baggers/dirt baggers  irresponsible.  I am glad you clarified that folks that travel for recreation are being irresponsible.  

When you are used to a lot of freedom it's hard to have the discipline to dial it down.  I am already jonesing to get away from the coast and I haven't even been here a month.  But whenever I start pouting about it I think of my oldest daughters family.  She is a lab tech in a hospital, working 14 hour days, he lost his job, which is kind of a good thing because he gets to stay home and be Mr. Mom, teacher, etc. to their 7 year old.   They live in a small 2 bedroom condo in Houston.  

I don't have much patience these days with people that are complaining about having to stay home, freedom to travel and climb is a privilege that has to earned.  So I am paying my dues and washing my hands.  

Good news my youngest sons Covid-19 test came back negative, he gets to to back to work.... 

Lori Milas wrote:

So glad you wrote this, Dallas.  "How can I help?" seems to me to be the question we should all be asking instead of the judgments.  I'm honestly SO surprised at the level of judgment and vitriol but I guess that comes with panic.  

This!! 

I'm shocked at the level of vitriol for just having a different opinion about the solution.

Dallas R wrote:

We know the feeling.  

Here's an article for you and Barb and Dallas.

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-04-04/la-na-coronavirus-rvs-campers-route-66

Dallas R wrote:

I apologize if I insinuated you were calling nomads/van lifers/glamp baggers/dirt baggers  irresponsible.  I am glad you clarified that folks that travel for recreation are being irresponsible.  

When you are used to a lot of freedom it's hard to have the discipline to dial it down.  I am already jonesing to get away from the coast and I haven't even been here a month.  But whenever I start pouting about it I think of my oldest daughters family.  She is a lab tech in a hospital, working 14 hour days, he lost his job, which is kind of a good thing because he gets to stay home and be Mr. Mom, teacher, etc. to their 7 year old.   They live in a small 2 bedroom condo in Houston.  

I don't have much patience these days with people that are complaining about having to stay home, freedom to travel and climb is a privilege that has to earned.  So I am paying my dues and washing my hands.  

Good news my youngest sons Covid-19 test came back negative, he gets to to back to work.... 

Geez...that's what none of us who are parents want, any of our kids/grandkids needing to be tested. You all know mine is an EMT. I asked about it. For now, he said they're wearing full PPE stuff for every call, every time, and, he added, "then they'll wonder why it's all gone two weeks from now". Lol! He's a pretty cool kid, I know he will not only rise to this, if the shit really does get bad, but he is the type who will be stoked about it. Same thing with his SAR callouts. Even the body recoveries, he "gets" it, how important it is to families. 

My climbing partner here is also the one friend I have, that I see all the time. We miss just run of the mill stuff. Laps at our new gym. Working on our project to eat our way through Boise's many wonderful ethnic restaurants. Hikes in our foothills, or just playing s board game.

But? He is type two diabetic. His dad is over 70 (he lives with his dad). His girlfriend is very immunocompromised.

So I started scaling back what I do. Then, what we did together disappeared the week of March 16. On March 25th, he let me know his gf wasn't feeling well. They had her go get tested. At that point? We both hunkered in to wait....or get sick.

Neither is sick, her test was negative.

But I'm choosing to stay apart and be very conservative.

Idaho's first case was only March 13th. Already, I can't remember who was the last person I touched, or when. 

We have one of the hottest hot spots in the country in Idaho, 2.6 times worse then NYC, based on cases per 100,000 population. That's only a nice, scenic, day trip from here, and we are just starting in my area, where the big (for here) population is. Idaho just went over 1,000 cases. 

I'm trying not to hold my breath.

Instead, I'm planting potatoes.

This is Idaho, after all.

Best, Helen

Like Helen, I'm also in Idaho.  But I'm in a small town in Valley county, 3 cases in the county so far.  Good local compliance with the shelter in place restrictions.  Police met a private plane from Seattle when it landed a few days ago and required them to depart immediately which they did.  I've got a bouldering wall in my garage so that is helping. With 3-4 feet of snow, still a little cool for biking, but running is OK.   

But I'm concerned about my family.  Two daughter-in-laws are nurses.  One grandson is a first responder.  All OK so far.  

I actually got out for a little climb Friday and yesterday. Both at locations with no one else there after a night of heavy rain. Friday was low traversing and yesterday was top roping so both very safe. We cleaned our hands with hand sanitising gel before and after each climb.
We are currently allowed to exercise outside in a group of no more than 2, so we were abiding by the rules.

wendy weiss wrote:

There was a mountain lion up in a tree in someone's backyard in central Boulder yesterday. The wildlife is moving in.   

as mountain lions expand from, due to their protected status into a expanding humane population, these encounters are going to be more common. Care must be taken.  I've spent a ton of time in bear county and learned a lot about them. I grew up with lions but in the 60's and 70's they were a rare site to treasure. I grew up next to a huge ranch whose old cowboys talked of the danger of lions, not so of bears. Having spent time all over the world I can say cats are far more dangerous, Where a bear is like a dog and will charge and bark and wait for a response to respond to. A big cat on the other hand waits in ambush and attacks or if in a surprise encounter freezes and responds to your movement.  Just Like a house cat they respond quickly to movement. You run they chase. You charge or become big, scary they retreat. At least in most encounters !!  While bear spray is good it is not a save all. All too often we spray during a charge and lose it by dropping it as the attack takes place. Having a knife or even the bear spray attached by paracord or strong string gives you the ability to bring it back into the fight. With a big cat fight is the only option! I've been taught by experts around the world never give up with cats!!! 

Big cats are under pressure on all fronts while being protected and growing in numbers. So encounters are going to increase. Have some teeth of your own just incase. Rare?? yes. But solo hikers are at risk. Get yourself a 4-6 fixed blade knife attach it with string along with bear spray. Better yet a pistol as well with bird shot and hard rounds so you have a better chance in a panic situation. Not going to go into it but big cats can be about the most scary thing you will encounter in north america. AGAIN RARE, but more dangerous to lone hikers. Be safe and have fun but always be prepared.

 

John c johnc2884While bear spray is good it is not a save all. All too often we spray during a charge and lose it by dropping it as the attack takes place. Having a knife or even the bear spray attached by paracord or strong string gives you the ability to bring it back into the fight.

I do a lot of solo walking in my neighborhood and in the Angeles National forest which is very near my house. I always carry bear spray and a “screech alarm” on an old gear sling. It’s primarily in case I run into an evil human, but we also have a lot of coyotes and they sometimes roam in packs. They mostly seem to be aggressive towards people walking their dogs, but I had one once track parallel to me in scrubby terrain for over a mile and that was a bit spooky. 

As for the lions, now that people have these “ring” cameras, we see postings of the lions a couple of times a year in the neighborhoods. Still rare to see.  The bobcat and coyote sightings occur nightly. 
It’s a rare privilege to have seen 2 mountain lions in my life. I’m sure they have seen me a thousand times. 

johnc, phylp... another great topic.  Seems they are inexhaustable here!  I hiked alone for years, but never had any idea what I would do if I came across a big cat.  There were several deaths in my area due to mountain lion attacks, and eventually it just got too spooky to hike alone.  Those attacks were so sudden, and from ABOVE... I foolishly thought cats would be somewhere on the ground... clearly the joggers who died just didn't have a chance.  So it really helps to know how to take care of ourselves out there.  And yes, those rare encounters are beautiful.    

Here in the desert it's a new world, and I'm hoping to get up to speed with who all is out there now.  I've seen plenty of coyotes.  But as I head out at sunrise on a walk along a trail, I'm not sure what else might be lurking.  I'm even unsure about who/what might be housing in the deep cracks here.  I have never stuck a hand/arm in and pulled out a scorpion or bat, but with all the gnarly stuff in those cracks, I'm sure there are critters in there.  

Helen... thanks so much for sharing your experience with this new reality, and Carl... Dallas.  I'm just sitting here on my end still trying to absorb the catastrophic changes. Just 4 short weeks ago we were leaving to come climb for a month and find a home.  I had some idea there was a virus going around... but not like this!   I was just asked this morning whether I'm going to buy that house we keep going back to... or go home and forget it.  I don't know WHAT the hell we're doing right now.  I wish we could just take a community vote on this, so I could get it over with.  Right now, I am just wavering on a decision... not wanting to return to Sacramento, not sure if it's a good idea to move here now.  

San Bernardino County has now shut down all hotels and ordered 'short term rentals' to vacate their renters and tell them to go home.  There is a small exclusion for those renters (me) who were already here, and are 'sheltering in place' on the premises.  The locals here are nervous that outsiders are bringing their virus here to this community.  Funny... my first thought was "wait... I'm not an outsider. I live here!"  But in fact, I am not yet a resident of Joshua Tree.  
------------------

There are predictions that this is the new normal, maybe for a long time. (years).  I refuse to believe that.  But I DO believe that it's time to be creative with interactions... and learn how to exercise at home.  

BeachBody now has dozens of workouts streaming live.  Just turn on your computer, or TV... and voila.  A great fun workout.  So for me, there's Shaun T (secret crush) and 'Cize'... ballet barre, booty classes, plenty of yoga.  You can get a 14 or 30 day free trial, then minimal monthly thereafter.  There are scary sounding workouts for the dudes and dudettes like "10 Rounds" (boxing), "The Masters Hammer and Chisel" and "The Beast".... etc.  

There are plenty of climbing workouts, yoga for climbers.  

Mental health is going to be really important so I'm choosing programs that have great attitude and positivity.  Laughter, humor, getting outdoors, getting a good heartrate... I believe climbers especially need movement and cardio... connection (even here)...  and at least for me, taking in the minimal amount of TV/Cable/News possible.  Enough to get the overview, any urgent news messages, and then return to LIVING.

Lori Milas wrote:... my first thought was "wait... I'm not an outsider. I live here!"  But in fact, I am not yet a resident of Joshua Tree.  
------------------
return to LIVING.

Ummmm....I don't really think you need to ask us. If you don't absolutely have to sell your house first, just do it, or at least see if you can rent that house. I think you'll really regret it if you don't and forever wonder why you didn't. ;-)

https://youtu.be/MPrPtDoaB3s

EDIT to add the clip, and, Boise has always had mountain lions, bears, even a moose now and then....downtown, at times! More than a river runs through it! Newest though? Wolves. 

Best, Helen

Lori? How many people in JT know you by name, and use it? How many names do you know? Know any pets? That's a pretty good measure in small towns that a place has crept into your heart for good, IMO. I'm not moving there, but Almo, Idaho is that place for me, here.

Best, Helen

John c johnc28849@yahoo.com wrote:

as mountain lions expand from, due to their protected status into a expanding humane population, these encounters are going to be more common. Care must be taken.  I've spent a ton of time in bear county and learned a lot about them. I grew up with lions but in the 60's and 70's they were a rare site to treasure. I grew up next to a huge ranch whose old cowboys talked of the danger of lions, not so of bears. Having spent time all over the world I can say cats are far more dangerous, Where a bear is like a dog and will charge and bark and wait for a response to respond to. A big cat on the other hand waits in ambush and attacks or if in a surprise encounter freezes and responds to your movement.  Just Like a house cat they respond quickly to movement. You run they chase. You charge or become big, scary they retreat. At least in most encounters !!  While bear spray is good it is not a save all. All too often we spray during a charge and lose it by dropping it as the attack takes place. Having a knife or even the bear spray attached by paracord or strong string gives you the ability to bring it back into the fight. With a big cat fight is the only option! I've been taught by experts around the world never give up with cats!!! 

Big cats are under pressure on all fronts while being protected and growing in numbers. So encounters are going to increase. Have some teeth of your own just incase. Rare?? yes. But solo hikers are at risk. Get yourself a 4-6 fixed blade knife attach it with string along with bear spray. Better yet a pistol as well with bird shot and hard rounds so you have a better chance in a panic situation. Not going to go into it but big cats can be about the most scary thing you will encounter in north america. AGAIN RARE, but more dangerous to lone hikers. Be safe and have fun but always be prepared.

 

Agree that mountain lions are a lot more dangerous than bears. We have plenty of bears right in our 'hood -- using a bear-proof garbage bin now. Fortunately mountain lions are still a lot rarer. I do think about them when I hike alone. Not ready for the pistol or knife yet, but bear spray sounds like a good idea. 

John c johnc28849@yahoo.com wrote: Big cats are under pressure on all fronts while being protected and growing in numbers. So encounters are going to increase. Have some teeth of your own just incase. Rare?? yes. But solo hikers are at risk. Get yourself a 4-6 fixed blade knife attach it with string along with bear spray. Better yet a pistol as well with bird shot and hard rounds so you have a better chance in a panic situation. Not going to go into it but big cats can be about the most scary thing you will encounter in north america. AGAIN RARE, but more dangerous to lone hikers. Be safe and have fun but always be prepared.

 

John c johnc28849@yahoo.com wrote: Big cats are under pressure on all fronts while being protected and growing in numbers. So encounters are going to increase. Have some teeth of your own just incase. Rare?? yes. But solo hikers are at risk. Get yourself a 4-6 fixed blade knife attach it with string along with bear spray. Better yet a pistol as well with bird shot and hard rounds so you have a better chance in a panic situation. Not going to go into it but big cats can be about the most scary thing you will encounter in north america. AGAIN RARE, but more dangerous to lone hikers. Be safe and have fun but always be prepared.

 

Suggest considering a longer blade than 4", that's pretty short.  If you are well trained with firearms, perhaps a pistol might help but in a critical encounter will you be able to think, aim and shoot accurately?  In place of a gun, suggest a baseball bat.  Better yet, make continuous noise while hiking if by yourself.  Sing, blow a whistle, etc.  If it is known that big cats are around, don't hike below outcrops, etc. where a cat could be waiting to jump on prey.  I know a woman who fought off a cat that jumped on her young son while hiking.  She fought if off with a water bottle and the desperation of a mom.  So I'm not joking about a baseball bat.