Looking for someone to take me rock climbing

L Kap wrote:

I'm absolutely on board with climbing at a gym first and think it's a great idea. Not everyone does that though. Same question to you - what fear do you have about having your DL photographed by someone you'd entrust with your safety as a climbing partner? Do you think identity thieves are hanging out on MP and agreeing to meet up in person and go climbing with strangers just so they can capture a phone image of your DL? 

Having been through the unbelievable brain damage of identity theft I'm pretty reluctant to give out personal info like my birthday or DL number. And if it was a scenario where I was offering to do someone a favor (teaching them to climb) I would probably feel like the day got off to a weird start if someone wanted a copy of my license. All that said you should definitely take whatever precautions you feel necessary to protect yourself. I recognize that women face harassment ranging from irritating to scary that I have never had to deal with.

I think you are right that the OP is probably not real, the motivations behind trolling completely baffle me. I guess people find it entertaining...

Patrik's post is horrifying! I've only climbed with a few people from MP and haven't had a problem, but that makes me reluctant to meet partners here and definitely wouldn't go outside without at least a gym session!

well, this escalated quickly....

there is a worldwide pandemic. it's soon going to overwhelm our hospitals, in the wealthiest, most advanced system in the world.. just stay the f inside for a couple of weeks. do some planks and get a pullup bar, ffs.

Patrik wrote: Evaluating if someone can keep you alive on the rock is a really difficult task.

I agree that this is true for a beginner. However, as you gain experience it becomes pretty easy. It is an important skill, especially if you want to travel solo. This isn't specifically directed at the OP, but just on the topic I have some advice for staying safe for beginners or experienced people who have been fucked over by a new partner who lies about their experience (it happens). Here is what I do when I evaluate a new partner or potential new partner. 

1. Ask lots of questions. Don't assume things.
As a beginner, ask what they are doing and why they are doing it. They know they are climbing with a beginner, so they should expect this and be patient. If they become impatient or can't explain their techniques properly, this is a huge red flag.

I usually ask, "What kind of routes do you like to climb?"

This will start a conversation in which you can gauge their familiarity with the sport and their level of experience. This will get them to start spraying, which can be good, because it may reveal their true colors. If they are humble, that is a good sign. Ask probing questions when they start to spray, like "oh cool, did you swing leads on that?" "who did you climb that with?"  "how long did that take you guys?".

"How long have you been climbing?" is not a great question. It will not weed out the perma-gumbies who have been climbing 10 years but only infrequently, and who still climb 5.9, belay with ATCs, rap off single pitch routes, and do other dumb ass and dangerous shit. AVOID THESE PEOPLE OR YOU WILL BECOME ONE!  "How did you learn to climb" is a better question. If someone says, "It's been a while..." that's a red flag that they don't know what they are doing (and maybe they never did).

The questions I always always ask:
"How many lead falls have you caught in your life, if you had to guess?"
Usually people say, "oh I don't know", to which I ask, "Would you say you've caught over 100 falls?". If they say "Oh yeah of course, probably 1000s" then I relax. If they hesitate at all I am more guarded with how I climb with them. This also helps weed out the leader-must-not-fall permagumbies. It aint 1960, if we are serious about climbing, when we rock climb, we fall. That's what the rope is for. I also ask:
"How would you like to be belayed? Should I give a soft catch, or minimize your fall distance?"
As a total beginner, you shouldn't ask this. But as you gain experience it's a way to appear courteous while judging the new partner. Believe it or not there is a correct answer to this question and it is 'soft catch'. If someone wants a minimized fall distance, I won't DQ them but it gives me information that they are not very experienced with lead climbing. I also won't spike them (or drop them on a ledge) no matter what they say. Everyone gets a soft catch (which is not the same as 'hero slack') no matter what.
If there's a size difference, you might also ask:
"Have you belayed a larger [smaller] partner before? How did that go for you?" This can start a conversation that will help keep you safe. A weight difference is an important variable that inexperienced people don't always consider.

If someone lies about their experience level it's an immediate DQ.

2. Look at their gear.
-Is it beat up from years of use? Or bright, shiny and new? Shiny new gear will make me ask more questions about their experience level.
-Is it the best tool for the job? Or is it unnecessary, redundant, or outdated. For example, Figure 8 is an immediate DQ. ATC is a red flag. Grigri is what you want to see.
-Do they have what they need and nothing more? If there is a bunch of extraneous shit dangling from their harness, that's a red flag for incompetence. In the gym / single pitch cragging environment (where you should be on your first climbing date), that is a belay device if belaying, or quickdraws if they are leading. Nothing else. I'm talking about PAS's, gloves, knife, extra lockers, extra belay device, quicklinks, prussiks, etc, the shit people put on their harness to make up for a lack of experience. One or two items, no big deal but the more of this the worse.

3. Belay them first. Then climb with caution.
-Watch them as they climb. Even if the climb is difficult, do they move well, like they have climbed many many routes? Or are they nervous and fumbly? Are they scared, or composed above a bolt / their gear?
-Look at the ease with which they tie in, or put you on belay. Is it smooth and fast, like they've done it thousands of times? Or do they fumble? If they fumble, at all, I'll ask more questions about their experience level.

If everything is A-OK at this point I'll let it rip, and even climb something fairly hard for me if they are clearly super experienced. If not, I'll climb a route on a slingshot TR or single pitch lead that I'm comfortable soloing. Then at the top, when I say 'take' to be lowered, I'll grab the belayer side of the rope and keep a hold of it as they start to lower me. This is so if they drop me, I can catch myself. I will never multi-pitch climb with someone as a first date unless someone else vouches for their experience and everything else about them checks out.

Some of you may call this elitist but I call it keeping myself safe. I am happy to climb with less-experienced people who are safe, psyched and who are honest about their experience level. Luckily I'm a large male so I don't fear being attacked by a potential partner but I would also be happy to share my identity with any new partner I was meeting up with alone in a remote location.

I have climbed with probably 10-15 random people I met on MP one of which used a screen name and I had no clue it was a chick I was meeting up with. I use my real name so people can look me up on anything I say, I do it on almost any forum I am on. I will not exchange pics of DL's but you can google me and find that I have a photography business and find my climbing partners. If that is not enough for someone then frankly I am not that interested in climbing with them.

Interestingly enough the one partner I had who turned out to be a chick and I was not expecting it treated the climbing day like it was a date and tried to invite me to her house afterwards... super awkward I did not climb with her again.

To each their own really, if exchanging DL's is what it takes to be confident then I hope you can find partners who do that. I troll my potential partners MP paes to try and verify their abilities before climbing. I also will google them if they use their real names. Those are my checks.

Eric Chabot wrote:

"How long have you been climbing?" is not a great question. It will not weed out the perma-gumbies who have been climbing 10 years but only infrequently, and who still climb 5.9, belay with ATCs, rap off single pitch routes, and do other dumb ass and dangerous shit. AVOID THESE PEOPLE OR YOU WILL BECOME ONE!  "How did you learn to climb" is a better question. If someone says, "It's been a while..." that's a red flag that they don't know what they are doing (and maybe they never did).

The questions I always always ask:
"How many lead falls have you caught in your life, if you had to guess?"
Usually people say, "oh I don't know", to which I ask, "Would you say you've caught over 100 falls?". If they say "Oh yeah of course, probably 1000s" then I relax. If they hesitate at all I am more guarded with how I climb with them. This also helps weed out the leader-must-not-fall permagumbies. It aint 1960, if we are serious about climbing, when we rock climb, we fall. That's what the rope is for. I also ask:
"How would you like to be belayed? Should I give a soft catch, or minimize your fall distance?"

If someone lies about their experience level it's an immediate DQ.

Note to self do not climb with Eric! Guess I am a perma gumby because although I do dabble into 10's I am a 5.9 climber after 8-10 years and I have probably caught around 15 lead falls in my life. I have taken 7 lead falls myself... I do not fall if at all possible, I down climb out of situations that I can not climb. 

I am kidding on not climbing with you Eric! But just offering another perspective!

LKap didn't need to see my driver's license when we went climbing.  She just wanted me to give her a safe catch if she fell.
Great partner.

Haha Jon no offense meant or taken! I like to try hard and fall a lot when I climb, so I prefer partners who have experience giving safe catches. There are lots of ways to play this game and none of them are really any better than others.

Eric Chabot wrote:

I agree that this is true for a beginner. However, as you gain experience it becomes pretty easy. It is an important skill, especially if you want to travel solo. This isn't specifically directed at the OP, but just on the topic I have some advice for staying safe for beginners or experienced people who have been fucked over by a new partner who lies about their experience (it happens). Here is what I do when I evaluate a new partner or potential new partner. 

1. Ask lots of questions. Don't assume things.
As a beginner, ask what they are doing and why they are doing it. They know they are climbing with a beginner, so they should expect this and be patient. If they become impatient or can't explain their techniques properly, this is a huge red flag.

I usually ask, "What kind of routes do you like to climb?"

This will start a conversation in which you can gauge their familiarity with the sport and their level of experience. This will get them to start spraying, which can be good, because it may reveal their true colors. If they are humble, that is a good sign. Ask probing questions when they start to spray, like "oh cool, did you swing leads on that?" "who did you climb that with?"  "how long did that take you guys?".

"How long have you been climbing?" is not a great question. It will not weed out the perma-gumbies who have been climbing 10 years but only infrequently, and who still climb 5.9, belay with ATCs, rap off single pitch routes, and do other dumb ass and dangerous shit. AVOID THESE PEOPLE OR YOU WILL BECOME ONE!  "How did you learn to climb" is a better question. If someone says, "It's been a while..." that's a red flag that they don't know what they are doing (and maybe they never did).

The questions I always always ask:
"How many lead falls have you caught in your life, if you had to guess?"
Usually people say, "oh I don't know", to which I ask, "Would you say you've caught over 100 falls?". If they say "Oh yeah of course, probably 1000s" then I relax. If they hesitate at all I am more guarded with how I climb with them. This also helps weed out the leader-must-not-fall permagumbies. It aint 1960, if we are serious about climbing, when we rock climb, we fall. That's what the rope is for. I also ask:
"How would you like to be belayed? Should I give a soft catch, or minimize your fall distance?"
As a total beginner, you shouldn't ask this. But as you gain experience it's a way to appear courteous while judging the new partner. Believe it or not there is a correct answer to this question and it is 'soft catch'. If someone wants a minimized fall distance, I won't DQ them but it gives me information that they are not very experienced with lead climbing. I also won't spike them (or drop them on a ledge) no matter what they say. Everyone gets a soft catch (which is not the same as 'hero slack') no matter what.
If there's a size difference, you might also ask:
"Have you belayed a larger [smaller] partner before? How did that go for you?" This can start a conversation that will help keep you safe. A weight difference is an important variable that inexperienced people don't always consider.

If someone lies about their experience level it's an immediate DQ.

2. Look at their gear.
-Is it beat up from years of use? Or bright, shiny and new? Shiny new gear will make me ask more questions about their experience level.
-Is it the best tool for the job? Or is it unnecessary, redundant, or outdated. For example, Figure 8 is an immediate DQ. ATC is a red flag. Grigri is what you want to see.
-Do they have what they need and nothing more? If there is a bunch of extraneous shit dangling from their harness, that's a red flag for incompetence. In the gym / single pitch cragging environment (where you should be on your first climbing date), that is a belay device if belaying, or quickdraws if they are leading. Nothing else. I'm talking about PAS's, gloves, knife, extra lockers, extra belay device, quicklinks, prussiks, etc, the shit people put on their harness to make up for a lack of experience. One or two items, no big deal but the more of this the worse.

3. Belay them first. Then climb with caution.
-Watch them as they climb. Even if the climb is difficult, do they move well, like they have climbed many many routes? Or are they nervous and fumbly? Are they scared, or composed above a bolt / their gear?
-Look at the ease with which they tie in, or put you on belay. Is it smooth and fast, like they've done it thousands of times? Or do they fumble? If they fumble, at all, I'll ask more questions about their experience level.

If everything is A-OK at this point I'll let it rip, and even climb something fairly hard for me if they are clearly super experienced. If not, I'll climb a route on a slingshot TR or single pitch lead that I'm comfortable soloing. Then at the top, when I say 'take' to be lowered, I'll grab the belayer side of the rope and keep a hold of it as they start to lower me. This is so if they drop me, I can catch myself. I will never multi-pitch climb with someone as a first date unless someone else vouches for their experience and everything else about them checks out.

Some of you may call this elitist but I call it keeping myself safe. I am happy to climb with less-experienced people who are safe, psyched and who are honest about their experience level. Luckily I'm a large male so I don't fear being attacked by a potential partner but I would also be happy to share my identity with any new partner I was meeting up with alone in a remote location.

I've been climbing for 52 years, and while some of your questions are good there's a few I disagree with.
Also some of your answers I disagree with also, so I would be a little bit hesitant climbing with you.

Also, I would be DQed from climbing with you because I belay with an ATC and always will.
I still belay every once in a while with a Hip Belay and did it for about 18 years without hurting anyone.
I pretty much stopped hip belaying  a leader when I got a pretty bad rope burn catching a 40 footer and switched to a stitch plate and then went to ATC.

Cosmiccragsman AKA Dwain wrote: I've been climbing for 52 years, and while some of your questions are good there's a few I disagree with.
Also some of your answers I disagree with also, so I would be a little bit hesitant climbing with you.

Also, I would be DQed from climbing with you because I belay with an ATC and always will.
I still belay every once in a while with a Hip Belay and did it for about 18 years without hurting anyone.
I pretty much stopped hip belaying  a leader when I got a pretty bad rope burn catching a 40 footer and switched to a stitch plate and then went to ATC.

I am anti grigri's… Both times I have almost been dropped it was because of user error on a grigri. I think I would trust your hip belay over a grigri honestly. I know all the big name climbers use them and they are technically safer but I just get nervous climbing over one.

OK, if you are real just ignore the snark and remain stoked to get out on the rock. If you are a troll, please put in some more effort to be entertaining.

As somebody mentioned above, meetup is a good idea. I'm not sure if there are any climbing meetup groups in Fort Collins, but 'Denver Social Climb' has regular outings (and gym meetups when gyms are open). If you bring a good attitude and can at least belay, you'll do fine at most of those. They are a great way to meet other climbers. There is a climbing meetup group in Boulder as well. I can't remember the exact name, but they do occasional outings as well. The Denver group is more active, though.  

Hopefully, the pandemic will subside in the near future. People will certainly be ready to get out on the rock by then, so you'll have some opportunities.

A note: Full name, date of birth, and driver's license number (often the missing piece) is pretty much all you need for the right person to steal your identity. Ask anyone who works in insurance.

If you let someone take a pic of your DL, cover up the number.

L Kap wrote:

I'm fine giving my real name and having my DL photographed by anyone I would climb with. Why wouldn't you let a person who you are comfortable taking climbing verify who you are and let someone else know who they are out with? What are you afraid of? 

Identity theft.

Ironic how men are suddenly afraid that a random woman they are meeting to climb with for the first time could pose a danger to them. 

L Kap wrote: Ironic how men are suddenly afraid that a random woman they are meeting to climb with for the first time could pose a danger to them. 

Correction: We are not giving our ID to anyone, male or female in any situation because we understand the extremely high risk of ID theft. 

I have listed many ways that I look to make sure I am not meeting a nut job at the crag, I am sure you too can find ways to be safe that do not involve using personal data that could cause Identity theft.

This is not because I think any climber would steal my ID, its because I know that most people are morons when it comes to personal security. Everyone downloads apps like tic toc that harvest data, they use stupid passwords because they are too lazy to make good ones and change them after data breaches, ect. I do not want my personal info on your device that I have no clue how secure you are.

Jon Hillis wrote:

Correction: We are not giving our ID to anyone, male or female in any situation because we understand the extremely high risk of ID theft. 

You don't hand your license to a police officer when he asks for license and registration?

You don't give your DL to the TSA agent?

You've never handed your license to someone to buy alcohol or marijuana? To get into a club? They have cameras in those places, you know.

You don't exchange DL information in the event of a car accident? That's a person who just HIT YOUR CAR.

I have listed many ways that I look to make sure I am not meeting a nut job at the crag, I am sure you too can find ways to be safe that do not involve using personal data that could cause Identity theft.

If I am confident I know who the person is, I don't ask for their license. I only ask for a DL if it's a person I don't otherwise know and we are climbing outside alone just the two of us. Which is honestly a situation I'm rarely in these days.

This is not because I think any climber would steal my ID, its because I know that most people are morons when it comes to personal security. Everyone downloads apps like tic toc that harvest data, they use stupid passwords because they are too lazy to make good ones and change them after data breaches, ect. I do not want my personal info on your device that I have no clue how secure you are.

So, these are fair points. I asked my husband, who works in cybersecurity, whether by photographing someone's DL and storing it on my phone I am endangering their security. His take is that hacking happens, but it's a very small risk that he personally would not be worried about. He said it's probably a good practice to delete the DL after a period of time when I have confidence in that partner. That sounds totally reasonable to me.

I am also open to other ways of ensuring I know who my partner is, e.g. you mentioned you can be Googled and own a business, or if someone puts their real name and verifiable job on their FB profile, etc. That's fine with me. Blocking your DL number in the photo is also reasonable and probably a good practice. 

But I stand by my recommendation that telling someone you want to exchange DLs is a great way to weed out sketchy characters. If someone can't or won't engage in a reasonable dialogue about this, saying "no thanks" is a no brainer. 

Eric Chabot wrote: ATC is a red flag. Grigri is what you want to see.

There's a lot of good info in your post but "ATC is a red flag"?? Really? Can you explain that one? (I use both, for the record, but will usually take an ATC-guide if doing multipitch.)

Hi Charles!!!! Hope you guys are doing well in CO!!

2/10.

Charles Vernon wrote: There's a lot of good info in your post but "ATC is a red flag"?? Really? Can you explain that one? (I use both, for the record, but will usually take an ATC-guide if doing multipitch.)

I blinked at the same sentence... I m using a reverso 90% of the time. I feel so ostracised  (kidding, I don't really care for people drawing conclusions from such a fact)

Other than that this crazy long list of questions and precautions look more like a police interview than a guy trying to find a climbing partner... that would be my "red flag"...

L Kap wrote: You don't hand your license to a police officer when he asks for license and registration?

You don't give your DL to the TSA agent?

You've never handed your license to someone to buy alcohol or marijuana? To get into a club? They have cameras in those places, you know.

You don't exchange DL information in the event of a car accident? That's a person who just HIT YOUR CAR.

If I am confident I know who the person is, I don't ask for their license. I only ask for a DL if it's a person I don't otherwise know and we are climbing outside alone just the two of us. Which is honestly a situation I'm rarely in these days.

So, these are fair points. I asked my husband, who works in cybersecurity, whether by photographing someone's DL and storing it on my phone I am endangering their security. His take is that hacking happens, but it's a very small risk that he personally would not be worried about. He said it's probably a good practice to delete the DL after a period of time when I have confidence in that partner. That sounds totally reasonable to me.

I am also open to other ways of ensuring I know who my partner is, e.g. you mentioned you can be Googled and own a business, or if someone puts their real name and verifiable job on their FB profile, etc. That's fine with me. Blocking your DL number in the photo is also reasonable and probably a good practice.

But I stand by my recommendation that telling someone you want to exchange DLs is a great way to weed out sketchy characters. If someone can't or won't engage in a reasonable dialogue about this, saying "no thanks" is a no brainer. 

None of those are random strangers that have no reason for my ID except to take a picture of it and I do not let someone I got in a accident with have a picture of my DL for above mentioned reasons. If TSA or a grocery store(I don't get carded on the rare occasion I am in a bar) or a cop ask for my ID and whip out their phone to take a pic I am going to have something to say for sure... 

Yes it is a small security risk but it is more the strangeness of why I would even be put in that situation.

We are not going to agree on this so I will let it go but please consider not all of us are sketchy and if we refuse to provide a ID for such an exchange do not assume we are bad. The minority make the majority very annoyed at the hoops we have to jump through. I do not blame any woman for taking whatever steps to be safe.