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Looking for someone to take me rock climbing

Franck Vee · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 91

2/10.

Fabien M · · Lausanne, CH · Joined Dec 2019 · Points: 0
Charles Vernon wrote: There's a lot of good info in your post but "ATC is a red flag"?? Really? Can you explain that one? (I use both, for the record, but will usually take an ATC-guide if doing multipitch.)

I blinked at the same sentence... I m using a reverso 90% of the time. I feel so ostracised  (kidding, I don't really care for people drawing conclusions from such a fact)

Other than that this crazy long list of questions and precautions look more like a police interview than a guy trying to find a climbing partner... that would be my "red flag"...
Jon Hillis · · Valley of Sun · Joined Mar 2013 · Points: 0
L Kap wrote: You don't hand your license to a police officer when he asks for license and registration?

You don't give your DL to the TSA agent?

You've never handed your license to someone to buy alcohol or marijuana? To get into a club? They have cameras in those places, you know.

You don't exchange DL information in the event of a car accident? That's a person who just HIT YOUR CAR
.

If I am confident I know who the person is, I don't ask for their license. I only ask for a DL if it's a person I don't otherwise know and we are climbing outside alone just the two of us. Which is honestly a situation I'm rarely in these days.

So, these are fair points. I asked my husband, who works in cybersecurity, whether by photographing someone's DL and storing it on my phone I am endangering their security. His take is that hacking happens, but it's a very small risk that he personally would not be worried about. He said it's probably a good practice to delete the DL after a period of time when I have confidence in that partner. That sounds totally reasonable to me.

I am also open to other ways of ensuring I know who my partner is, e.g. you mentioned you can be Googled and own a business, or if someone puts their real name and verifiable job on their FB profile, etc. That's fine with me. Blocking your DL number in the photo is also reasonable and probably a good practice.

But I stand by my recommendation that telling someone you want to exchange DLs is a great way to weed out sketchy characters. If someone can't or won't engage in a reasonable dialogue about this, saying "no thanks" is a no brainer. 

None of those are random strangers that have no reason for my ID except to take a picture of it and I do not let someone I got in a accident with have a picture of my DL for above mentioned reasons. If TSA or a grocery store(I don't get carded on the rare occasion I am in a bar) or a cop ask for my ID and whip out their phone to take a pic I am going to have something to say for sure... 

Yes it is a small security risk but it is more the strangeness of why I would even be put in that situation.

We are not going to agree on this so I will let it go but please consider not all of us are sketchy and if we refuse to provide a ID for such an exchange do not assume we are bad. The minority make the majority very annoyed at the hoops we have to jump through. I do not blame any woman for taking whatever steps to be safe.
L Kap · · Boulder, CO · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 95
Jon Hillis wrote:

None of those are random strangers that have no reason for my ID except to take a picture of it and I do not let someone I got in a accident with have a picture of my DL for above mentioned reasons. If TSA or a grocery store(I don't get carded on the rare occasion I am in a bar) or a cop ask for my ID and whip out their phone to take a pic I am going to have something to say for sure... 

Yes it is a small security risk but it is more the strangeness of why I would even be put in that situation.
Your personal information is stored in a lot of places where it is more likely to get stolen in a hack than from a random person's phone. Notably, the DMV, banks, and credit bureaus.

I don't see why it's strange at all for a person to want to be able to verify who they are going out into the wilderness with.



We are not going to agree on this 

Likely true

so I will let it go but please consider not all of us are sketchy and if we refuse to provide a ID for such an exchange do not assume we are bad. The minority make the majority very annoyed at the hoops we have to jump through. I do not blame any woman for taking whatever steps to be safe.

I amend my previous statement - guys who are not sketchy will be fine providing their DL or some other way to verify their identity. 

Nobody said you were bad. But if you can't meet my interest in making sure both I and a trusted person know where I am and who I'm with when I'm climbing outside with you, then we are not going to climb outside alone together. Don't think of it as jumping through hoops. Think of it as meeting a very reasonable information request. One which benefits you too btw. If an accident / epic / emergency were to happen and we didn't return as expected, my contact (in my case, my husband) could alert the authorities for both of us. 

Charles Vernon · · mind & body in Colorado, he… · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 2,624
Tomily ma wrote: Hi Charles!!!! Hope you guys are doing well in CO!!

We're doing okay under the circumstances, both working from home while wrangling a four-year-old. Hope you and the fam are as well as can be. We were actually supposed to be in Tucson right now for a wedding. Hopefully in the fall sometime, though. We'll have to reprise family day when we finally make it back down there!

Guy Keesee · · Moorpark, CA · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 312

L Kap.... great suggestion about the DL exchange! For any trip with new people.

You don’t want to talked about on “Forensic Files”...... “she was last seen going “climbing” with an unknown person, who she met on a internet form called Mountain Project..... “

And to Eric..... I agree with what you wrote- sort of.
 
I carry and use a Grigri for most belay situations but I also pack a ATC - to use in other belay situations and to get down when we need to rap- even off some 1 pitch sport climbs. 

So where the heck is Desiree?

Alex Styp · · Eldorado Springs · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 75

O shit now there are bot girls on mp?! This is just like tinder. 

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 275
Alex Styp wrote: O shit now there are bot girls on mp?! This is just like tinder. 

Bring on the fembots:


Daniel Bausch · · Orem, UT · Joined 11 days ago · Points: 0
Michel Bernier wrote:

So, all unsolicited advice aside, I don't live in either Denver or Boulder counties so therefore I am not under a Stay At Home Order.

I am up for climbing anytime, Desiree, it is the best time of year to be climbing outside in the fresh air!

Now, to address the "mom advice": we're all adults here and while I can't speak for anyone else I do take offense to your insinuation that I (or any other "guy" offering a belay here on MP), cannot be trusted and needs to provide identity proof to a 3rd party before enjoying a day on the crag with a female.

Your comments are ignorant and a bit insulting.

In the future it would be appreciated if you keep your sexist comments to yourself and focus on your own life and decisions.

I, atleast, use my entire real name in my profile, "L Kap".

Thanks.

dude, you alone seem like a creep here. even your profile pic is shady.

Marc H · · Broomfield, CO · Joined May 2007 · Points: 255
Michel Bernier wrote:

I don't live in either Denver or Boulder counties so therefore I am not under a Stay At Home Order.

This has aged well.

Eric Chabot · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 45
Cosmiccragsman AKA Dwain wrote: I've been climbing for 52 years, and while some of your questions are good there's a few I disagree with.
Also some of your answers I disagree with also, so I would be a little bit hesitant climbing with you.

Also, I would be DQed from climbing with you because I belay with an ATC and always will.
I still belay every once in a while with a Hip Belay and did it for about 18 years without hurting anyone.
I pretty much stopped hip belaying  a leader when I got a pretty bad rope burn catching a 40 footer and switched to a stitch plate and then went to ATC.


Haha fair enough. Climbing has changed a lot over the years, and I'm sure I'd learn some things from you if we did climb together. ATC is a red flag, but not a deal breaker for me. But I agree we might not be a great match for the type of climbing that I personally like to do (mostly single pitch sport nowadays). Even if we both are safe.


To those that don't trust the gri, try one for a couple months and really put some effort into how to use it properly. You might be surprised...
EFS · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 160
Eric Chabot wrote:

I agree that this is true for a beginner. However, as you gain experience it becomes pretty easy. It is an important skill, especially if you want to travel solo. This isn't specifically directed at the OP, but just on the topic I have some advice for staying safe for beginners or experienced people who have been fucked over by a new partner who lies about their experience (it happens). Here is what I do when I evaluate a new partner or potential new partner. 

1. Ask lots of questions. Don't assume things.
As a beginner, ask what they are doing and why they are doing it. They know they are climbing with a beginner, so they should expect this and be patient. If they become impatient or can't explain their techniques properly, this is a huge red flag.

I usually ask, "What kind of routes do you like to climb?"

This will start a conversation in which you can gauge their familiarity with the sport and their level of experience. This will get them to start spraying, which can be good, because it may reveal their true colors. If they are humble, that is a good sign. Ask probing questions when they start to spray, like "oh cool, did you swing leads on that?" "who did you climb that with?"  "how long did that take you guys?".

"How long have you been climbing?" is not a great question. It will not weed out the perma-gumbies who have been climbing 10 years but only infrequently, and who still climb 5.9, belay with ATCs, rap off single pitch routes, and do other dumb ass and dangerous shit. AVOID THESE PEOPLE OR YO

i got exactly that far and read no more because of what i highlighted......

EFS · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 160
Jon Hillis wrote:

I am anti grigri's… Both times I have almost been dropped it was because of user error on a grigri. I think I would trust your hip belay over a grigri honestly. I know all the big name climbers use them and they are technically safer but I just get nervous climbing over one.

the only time i was dropped or almost died was someone using a grii gri and lowering me. i suddenly was falling at freefall speed from the top of the route until they let go of the lever and i stopped about 8 feet above the ground from decking. i couldnt climb that day because even though it did nothing, i tried slowing myself down by grabbing the rope.....needless to say, i had bad rope burn across both palms and my fingers. it actually dug into my hands and was bleeding/ooozing the whole day. it did not feel good....

L Kap · · Boulder, CO · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 95
Eric Chabot wrote:
To those that don't trust the gri, try one for a couple months and really put some effort into how to use it properly. You might be surprised...

Ever tried an atc pilot? Assisted braking without the known human error potential of a gri-gri. Weighs less too. 

Eric Chabot · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 45

I'm not a fan of the pilot. It is better than an ATC but there is some rope creep when holding tension. It also lacks the self rescue utility of the grigri, which is why the gri is my multi pitch belay device of choice and well worth the additional weight. I'm aware that an ATC guide can be used for ascending a rope, etc but it's a huge pain in the ass compared to a grigri. When I'm multi pitching and need to rappel I bring an ATC and prussik in addition to the gri.

Just to be clear, I don't think the ATC is an inherently unsafe device and if everything else about a person seemed solid I have no problem being belayed on one. If a new partner had a grigri, but fumbled loading it and couldn't feed slack properly (which is faster than feeding slack on an ATC when done correctly btw...) I would actually be more suspicious and concerned for my safety than if they had an ATC and used it properly. But tube devices seem to be the preferred device of the 'never fall' crowd. As I said there are lots of ways to play this game...do what works for you, but I prefer to be belayed by people who have caught many many lead falls and do so on a regular basis as part of their climbing (as in, every single session). Those people tend to use grigris and know what they are doing.

The grigri is a technological advancement that makes climbing safer if used properly. I know I will never convince some of you of that fact and I'm not going to try. I'm just making a suggestion about what has worked for me to help keep me from dropping people and being dropped. If you think it looks like a police interview...I don't know what to tell ya. If I were an asshole then it might come across that way in person, but it's really a friendly conversation.

Putting your life in someone else's hands isn't a fucking joke and deserves to be taken very seriously. If you travel solo you need to be able to evaluate people well or you might be seriously hurt or killed. If you are a new climber trying to learn (esp if a predatory male gumby wants to 'show you the ropes') you better be able to do this. I am trying to help out the dude who has been dropped by multiple partners and had a shitty time because of it. Take my suggestions or leave them, it has worked for me for staying safe when climbing with randos.

Christian Hesch · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2017 · Points: 12
Eric Chabot wrote:  I don't think the ATC is an inherently unsafe device and...  (which is faster than feeding slack on an ATC when done correctly btw...).

this only applies to an ATC, not a megajul or gigajul, which is an ATC when you turn it around. Literally no faster device for feeding slack to a leader, and significantly safer than how most people rapid feed a grigri. They're also both SS so they don't wear down and/or put aluminum dust in your rope when belaying or rapping...

Desiree K · · Unknown Hometown · Joined 14 days ago · Points: 0

I appreciate all the replies! I’ve responded to a handful of them through email. My work is considered essential so I’ve been busy. Sorry I did not reply on here. Ideally, before meeting anyone I would have a beer with them first or join a group so I could watch everyone and how safe they are being, etc. Seeing as this is not an option at the current moment I will wait. I appreciate everyone and once this clears up I would love some guidance. 

Robert S · · Driftwood, TX · Joined Sep 2018 · Points: 407
Eric Chabot wrote:

I agree that this is true for a beginner. However, as you gain experience it becomes pretty easy. It is an important skill, especially if you want to travel solo. This isn't specifically directed at the OP, but just on the topic I have some advice for staying safe for beginners or experienced people who have been fucked over by a new partner who lies about their experience (it happens). Here is what I do when I evaluate a new partner or potential new partner. 

1. Ask lots of questions. Don't assume things.
As a beginner, ask what they are doing and why they are doing it. They know they are climbing with a beginner, so they should expect this and be patient. If they become impatient or can't explain their techniques properly, this is a huge red flag.

I usually ask, "What kind of routes do you like to climb?"

This will start a conversation in which you can gauge their familiarity with the sport and their level of experience. This will get them to start spraying, which can be good, because it may reveal their true colors. If they are humble, that is a good sign. Ask probing questions when they start to spray, like "oh cool, did you swing leads on that?" "who did you climb that with?"  "how long did that take you guys?".

"How long have you been climbing?" is not a great question. It will not weed out the perma-gumbies who have been climbing 10 years but only infrequently, and who still climb 5.9, belay with ATCs, rap off single pitch routes, and do other dumb ass and dangerous shit. AVOID THESE PEOPLE OR YOU WILL BECOME ONE!  "How did you learn to climb" is a better question. If someone says, "It's been a while..." that's a red flag that they don't know what they are doing (and maybe they never did).

The questions I always always ask:
"How many lead falls have you caught in your life, if you had to guess?"
Usually people say, "oh I don't know", to which I ask, "Would you say you've caught over 100 falls?". If they say "Oh yeah of course, probably 1000s" then I relax. If they hesitate at all I am more guarded with how I climb with them. This also helps weed out the leader-must-not-fall permagumbies. It aint 1960, if we are serious about climbing, when we rock climb, we fall. That's what the rope is for. I also ask:
"How would you like to be belayed? Should I give a soft catch, or minimize your fall distance?"
As a total beginner, you shouldn't ask this. But as you gain experience it's a way to appear courteous while judging the new partner. Believe it or not there is a correct answer to this question and it is 'soft catch'. If someone wants a minimized fall distance, I won't DQ them but it gives me information that they are not very experienced with lead climbing. I also won't spike them (or drop them on a ledge) no matter what they say. Everyone gets a soft catch (which is not the same as 'hero slack') no matter what.
If there's a size difference, you might also ask:
"Have you belayed a larger [smaller] partner before? How did that go for you?" This can start a conversation that will help keep you safe. A weight difference is an important variable that inexperienced people don't always consider.

If someone lies about their experience level it's an immediate DQ.

2. Look at their gear.
-Is it beat up from years of use? Or bright, shiny and new? Shiny new gear will make me ask more questions about their experience level.
-Is it the best tool for the job? Or is it unnecessary, redundant, or outdated. For example, Figure 8 is an immediate DQ. ATC is a red flag. Grigri is what you want to see.
-Do they have what they need and nothing more? If there is a bunch of extraneous shit dangling from their harness, that's a red flag for incompetence. In the gym / single pitch cragging environment (where you should be on your first climbing date), that is a belay device if belaying, or quickdraws if they are leading. Nothing else. I'm talking about PAS's, gloves, knife, extra lockers, extra belay device, quicklinks, prussiks, etc, the shit people put on their harness to make up for a lack of experience. One or two items, no big deal but the more of this the worse.

3. Belay them first. Then climb with caution.
-Watch them as they climb. Even if the climb is difficult, do they move well, like they have climbed many many routes? Or are they nervous and fumbly? Are they scared, or composed above a bolt / their gear?
-Look at the ease with which they tie in, or put you on belay. Is it smooth and fast, like they've done it thousands of times? Or do they fumble? If they fumble, at all, I'll ask more questions about their experience level.

If everything is A-OK at this point I'll let it rip, and even climb something fairly hard for me if they are clearly super experienced. If not, I'll climb a route on a slingshot TR or single pitch lead that I'm comfortable soloing. Then at the top, when I say 'take' to be lowered, I'll grab the belayer side of the rope and keep a hold of it as they start to lower me. This is so if they drop me, I can catch myself. I will never multi-pitch climb with someone as a first date unless someone else vouches for their experience and everything else about them checks out.

Some of you may call this elitist but I call it keeping myself safe. I am happy to climb with less-experienced people who are safe, psyched and who are honest about their experience level. Luckily I'm a large male so I don't fear being attacked by a potential partner but I would also be happy to share my identity with any new partner I was meeting up with alone in a remote location.

You might want to take up rope-soloing.

Cosmiccragsman AKA Dwain · · Las Vegas, Nevada and Apple… · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 136

It may limit my climbing partners but I won't let
anyone belay me with a GriGri or any other mechanical assisted belay device.

And YES, I am of the old school, "The leader must not FALL" mentality.
Don't get me wrong, I have fallen many times, but not because I climb stuff above my ability.
My falls have been from breaking holds, trying to make a move and belayer doesn't give me rope, foot or hand slips, and last, accidents happen.

If you are leading and falling and falling you are climbing over your head
More chances of getting hurt that way than an attitude of a leader must not fall.
If you want sessions of falling and falling on hard stuff above your climbing ability
do it on a TR or follow a leader that can lead that grade.
It's a lot safer than falling over and over again.

Mark Paulson · · Raleigh, NC · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 141

Regarding ATC use, context matters...

"Let's project some 5.12 sport"... shows up with ATC guide/Reverso: red flag
"Let's cruise some easy multi-pitch"... shows up with ATC guide/Reverso: no problem

To the OP: you may want to consider asking staff members at your gym to point you in the right direction.  Usually these folks either regularly climb outside or can refer you to people who do, or have friends that would be amenable to you tagging along for an outdoor session. They also often have their finger on the community pulse, and know who the known creepers are. I know there are tons of great folks here on MP, but already in this thread you've seen some dreaded gumby-experts pop up. Using a non-gendered username is a good first step to avoiding some of these people. Requesting female partners is another. Once you've amassed some experience, you'll be able to more readily assess a potential partner's suitability.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Colorado
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