Softest grade given to a route?

Chris Blatchley wrote:

wait but you rated masterpiece 9- not 8??

Must've been when I first climbed it, hindsights 20/20

Artem Vasilyev wrote:

I'd disagree - autumn is a perfect hands jug haul!  

I've climbed my fair share of 5.10 pitches on gear around the U.S. and RW is at home at 5.9+/5.10- imo

As much as I detest debt-dodgers, I'm gonna agree with Artem on this one, Rock Wars is right around 5.10

Chris Blatchley wrote:

wait but you rated masterpiece 9- not 8??

He sandbagged his featherbag!?! True climber.

(just teasing Ben Molly)

Ben Molloy wrote: Fair enough, but Ive also never seen a 5.7 with jugs that big, let alone a 5.8. I figure combine it with mega jugs that provide the best feet you can ask for, it all averages out to like 5.8

I take your point. I think it would earn an easier rating if there were a few excellent rests (less continuous).

Kyle vH wrote:

I take your point. I think it would earn an easier rating if there were a few excellent rests (less continuous).

Fair enough, every time I climb it (which is often because like I said its a mega classic) I am amazed at how well you can fight off the pump by resting on each and every jug, but for a climber breaking into 5.10 there aren't really any "excellent" rests, just many good rests. I see your point for sure

fisticuffs 5.10b has to be a contender 

Ten Sleep: Decker Route 11d. This is a perfect 5.8 hand crack (maybe 5.6 at Vedauwoo). Either it is a simple misprint in the book (can't find the route on MP, so no "concensus" rating available), or this is what happens when you put up a crack in a sport area.

Dan Daugherty wrote:

Unfortunately, I suspect he's right. That place gave me a false sense of my abilities being one of the first places I climbed outdoors. I was onsighting 9s and hanging on 10s at Owens River. Drove to Red Rocks and was onsighting every single 10 I put my hands on. Fast forward 9 months of consistent climbing (unfortunately gym, but that was my climbing before RR) and a few trips to The New River Gorge and other lesser known areas and I'm having to hang on most 9's and up. Hell, even the grading at Manchester Wall is harder than RR. Don't get me wrong, I love climbing at RR but I have a much more realistic idea of the grading there compared to other places now.

With many many of the climbs that may be true, but next time you’re in vegas, go try “Friction Face Panty Waist” at running man wall (just did this last week and it was full value) and it’s hilarious to think it’s the same grade as so many of the super beginner, super easy routes at the party wall or elsewhere in the pullouts.

I'll put in a vote for a good chunk of tensleep

Xi Yin wrote: Gunsmoke (V3) at J tree. Requires some endurance yes, but no moves harder than V1.

Ha! Gunsmoke took me a ridiculous number of tries. More than an average V5 that I’ve sent.  Not because of endurance. There is a long move relatively early in the traverse... the first time I stuck that move I sent. 

What was particularly galling, at the time I was doing it, I was told that it was a V2. Though it is rated V3 on MP, as I see now. :)

As far as soft climbing goes, I’m surprised Maple hasn’t made an appearance yet. 

Artem Vasilyev wrote: I thought that heinous cling start felt a little soft at 12a. It felt like hard 11 - but that was only after I had beta dialed.

That's pretty much the only one I can think of off of the top of my head.

How many other 5.12a routes at Smith do you have dialed? Heinous start is often considered bench mark 12a there 

Dan Daugherty wrote:

Unfortunately, I suspect he's right. That place gave me a false sense of my abilities being one of the first places I climbed outdoors. I was onsighting 9s and hanging on 10s at Owens River. Drove to Red Rocks and was onsighting every single 10 I put my hands on. Fast forward 9 months of consistent climbing (unfortunately gym, but that was my climbing before RR) and a few trips to The New River Gorge and other lesser known areas and I'm having to hang on most 9's and up. Hell, even the grading at Manchester Wall is harder than RR. Don't get me wrong, I love climbing at RR but I have a much more realistic idea of the grading there compared to other places now.

ill give another +1 to routes being light at red rock.....but its same as anywhere else, there are plenty also that are up to par for the grade. problem is, if you look in old guidebooks, they are properly graded, and newer guidebooks come out and the climbs are upgraded. second pullout, sweet pain wall-glitter gulch is a 10b in the old swain book. theres a stiff move right at the bottom. the rest is all 10b climbing, but overhanging and pumpy. yet its been bumped to 11a in new guides. seems climbs are being upgraded because of endurance, where it used to be if no move was harder than 5.x, the climb was not graded above that 5.x. then go in the black corridor and check crude control, 12a.....super light for the grade, feels like maybe 9+ or 10.

I've only climbed in central CT and the gunks, so either everything at the gunks is feather bagged or everything in central CT is sandbagged. I'm not sure which. 

Shaggin Wagon 5.12a/b at Shagg Crag in Maine. It’s my (and many other people’s) first 5.12 so I think it’s probably soft.

Also Oosik 5.12a at Farley, depending on your pull-up/campusing strength. It’s some 5.10 face climbing followed by a few HUGE campus moves. Hard for plenty of people but pretty chill if you can do one armed pull-ups.

Gonna repeat many that have been stated. Flinging hog at jackson falls. Roshampo at rrg. Gunsmoke trav. Everything in black corridor at red rocks. 

Alex Fischer wrote: Also Oosik 5.12a at Farley, depending on your pull-up/campusing strength. It’s some 5.10 face climbing followed by a few HUGE campus moves. Hard for plenty of people but pretty chill if you can do one armed pull-ups.

That's a very odd definition of a soft 12a. Campusing? One-arm pullup strength? Sounds 5.13 to me.

Three Easy Pieces 5.11a at Rumney.  

Little Devil.  No way it's harder than v10.  And, more r/x than true x.

Austin Donisan wrote:

That's a very odd definition of a soft 12a. Campusing? One-arm pullup strength? Sounds 5.13 to me.

It depends on the person. For a lot of people it’s solid 5.12. But if you’re athletic/naturally strong and can do a one armed pull-up, but don’t have the technique/climbing specific strength to face climb harder than 5.10 (I know a few people like this), then you can probably still send Oosik.

Minimum Crag at Maple, Shinto Wall at Xzzz, Sunny’n’Steep at RR, Solarium at Muir Valley, RRG, Wanger Banger at Jtree.

I would call out Sig Sauer, 9 Lives, Coyne Crack, Annunaki, and Sacred Cow at the Creek if they still had their original grades but it seems like they’ve since changed to more honest assessments.

Oh, and how has nobody mentioned Moonlight?