New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #7

Hello fellow dinosaurs . . .

Last spring I posted my story to a similar thread on supertaco, but much has transpired since then and I thought I'd relate and update my story here in hopes of finding a little help (or at least solace). So here goes . . .

I grew up climbing in the Pacific Northwest. Started in 100ft fir trees as a child and have climbed any and everything I could lay my hands on since. I learned rock climbing in Leavenworth and Squamish in the 80's, but when I moved to southern California I stopped climbing for lack of partner, locale and motivation. That was 30 years ago. I've spent those years golfing (bogey golfer) and flying (aerobatics) - neither hobby is really affordable or enjoyable for me now. There were a few other distractions, the most notable being the reconstruction of my cervical spine.

Not a climbing injury !

See, all better :) 13 years since this surgery.

So I was sitting in the dentist chair last year and there was a video monitor showing a nice set of soothing images - when a pic of el Cap came up and I literally zoned out on it - I knew I had left something undone. I had talked about returning to climbing for several years - it was time to pull the trigger. I started in the local gym last December - couldn't do a chinup - couldn't clear 5.9 or V1 - pretty puny in general. I've always hated going to any "gym", but climbing gyms are the worst. Filled with clueless and classless millennial gym rats who snicker at our struggles on an overhanging V2 or find your ratty sweats and tee shirt somehow humorous. (Seriously boys, yoga pants?) And they come with the worst possible tastes in music . . . now I'd rather haul all my gear out to the local crag and solo climb . . . just to avoid the "gym climbers".

I can now do a handful of pullups and easily clear those 5.9's - only to find that 5.9 gym grades equal 5.6 in the real world. I still have a long way to go. I've taken aid training to learn all the newest tech and gear, doing some rope soloing at the local crags, building skills, learning systems. To me it's reminiscent of my flight training. Flying solo and solo aid climbing are very similar disciplines. I'd like my free climbing to be a lot better - but not sure how far I can take it - I have some falling anxiety that I never previously experienced - probably because I'm unsure of what I'm capable of. I thought I might be ready for a Nose attempt this fall, but I'm nowhere near ready. I've pushed that attempt off till next April, for my 59th birthday. I'll be ready by then or never will be.

I will be making my first trip to the valley in October (8,9) so I can log some time on some shorter routes and get an idea of what I'm getting into. I am in search of a local partner/guide to show me the valley ropes - anybody - any gender, any age - who can show me around and take me out on a couple fun climbs. 
I don't ever expect to get something for nothing - state your terms.  

Finally, I am so grateful for all the contributions by so many of you - the youth-challenged climbers - I might not have considered this path without your encouraging stories, anecdotes and willingness to share your knowledge. Thank you all.

bradley

Hey bradley,
I'm sure you will get lots of support and good advice from climbers here... and way better than I can offer.  But I just happened to see your post so...
Maybe what I can best and truthfully offer to you is my belief that our bodies are strong, and capable of strength and recovery, and we might well eliminate the belief in 'old'.  If you can, re-enter climbing with no preconceptions about how hard it will be, and just see what happens.  See what your body can do.  You might be really surprised.

Also... as a gym-hater who would also describe "classless millennial gym rats"... may I say that these kids can also become your best friends and coaches.  I think I went in expecting the snickers and derision from younger climbers.  In fact, my best gym buddies are half my age or younger, and we do a lot of high-fiving, a lot of watching each other's progress on Instagram... I can't believe they are as stoked for me as I am for them.  They will LIKE you.  In fact, young climbers NEED you.)

And their music is awesome.  I enjoy hanging out in the bouldering area of our gym, just to listen to whatever funk they are playing.  It's great for bonding.  You just have to make up your mind that these kids are fun, and you want to be part of the fun.  (Below, Chris, demonstrating how to climb the 45 degree wall for me. And we've been fast friends ever since.)

 

Guy Keesee wrote: Some new voices- nice!

Kris- you know me.... if I tip scales at 210- 5.10 is hard, when 190 I can do 5.11 when I was 175 it was 5.12 I was scratching for. Now at 68 I’m elated to climb 5.10 in the Meadows.

RGold.... Bobby did wear very tight hiking boots! Ones he didn’t hike around in. Once he started wearing proper climbing shoes, because they got invented, he hiked around in them! He was one of the few people who would put his boots on in his van and then do his Stony Point circuit. I really really miss that man! He taught me and many others (you?) how to “stand down” on tiny edges. RIP

Darrell- Thanks for “The Rest of the Story”..... I decked out on that one in front of a outward bound beginning climbing class getting the first bolt. The class was able to see first hand how one fixed bloody finger flappers with a nail clipper and crazy glue! Then I sent!

Jeff..... have you been to GFB post shaker? Wonder if anything fell over. I heard some things did at Wagon Wheel.

Lori... you will be amazed this time at JT. Your climbing has improved a ton in the last year- enjoy the fierce grip of the stone.
And you should do what most JT locals do- make the short drive to New Jack City. Despite what some will say about the place- it’s great steep climbing. Maybe hook up with Russ’s wife- she is a regular.

Russ... true about pure strength. I know that’s been your go to forever! 12oz curls + determination.... who needs boots! Lol

Aussie- if I win the lotto- I’ll see you down under!

And Mark! I feel sorry for you! As a proud graduate of Bellevue HS, class of 71..... I know there is nothing to climb unless ya drive to CO or SD. I do remember cliff diving at some local quarries. Any climbs around?

Sort of recovering from heat stroke now- two days of race directing- 10 hours on the hottest/biggest chunk of pavement in all of Southern California has left me sort of dazed.... hence this post!

Yeah, when I say “sentenced to be a gym climber most of the year”, I mean it... nothing around here except plastic. I am not anti-gym. But it is limiting. You can’t really learn to understand place gear. So I don’t do trad outdoors. Gyms have improved over time, and in one of the local ones, many strong climbers actually max out LOWER than some of the regional outdoor crags. There are some lower end outdoor crags 3-5 hrs distance.Quality outdoor Climbing is 7-8 hours away: Black Hills, HCR, Denver/Boulder area.

Mark Orsag wrote:

Yeah, when I say “sentenced to be a gym climber most of the year”, I mean it... nothing around here except plastic. I am not anti-gym. But it is limiting. You can’t really learn to understand place gear. So I don’t do trad outdoors. Gyms have improved over time, and in one of the local ones, many strong climbers actually max out LOWER than some of the regional outdoor crags. There are some lower end outdoor crags 3-5 hrs distance.Quality outdoor Climbing is 7-8 hours away: Black Hills, HCR, Denver/Boulder area.

Too late in life/career to relocate?

Lori Milas wrote: ...
Mark... outdoors I love TC Pros.  They feel like house slippers to me.  But now that you bring it up, I'm wondering if anyone else experiences shredding the rubber on both sides (of any shoe) when foot jamming up a crack?  Maybe I'm just not good at this yet, but I feel so bad when I have to yank a wedged foot out of a crack and feel the rubber just peeling off the sides.  How long are climbing shoes supposed to last?

Lori,

TC Pros seem to have a very thin rand.  I've been using Shoe Goo on mine since new.  A thin coat covering the leather/rubber at the top of the rand seems to really help with wear.  It's become a 15 minute ritual after every good crack session to trim up the Goo, clean with alcohol and re-coat.

Ken

Saw in another thread that Steve Price died from his cancer. He was always such a good guy. RIP Steve.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/117633948/sprice#ForumMessage-117697349

Señor Arroz wrote: Saw in another thread that Steve Price died from his cancer. He was always such a good guy. RIP Steve.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/117633948/sprice#ForumMessage-117697349

Oh man. Is this the gentleman who posted the incredible story of his last time out climbing while his wife and dog waited below? Several thousand posts ago... it was such a beautiful post and I have wondered about him ever since.   

Ken Tubbs wrote:

Lori,

TC Pros seem to have a very thin rand.  I've been using Shoe Goo on mine since new.  A thin coat covering the leather/rubber at the top of the rand seems to really help with wear.  It's become a 15 minute ritual after every good crack session to trim up the Goo, clean with alcohol and re-coat.

Ken

Wow! THANK YOU! 

Señor Arroz wrote: Saw in another thread that Steve Price died from his cancer. He was always such a good guy. RIP Steve.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/117633948/sprice#ForumMessage-117697349

Thank you for posting about it here. I didn't know him but he seemed nice. I didn't even realize he was ill. So sorry.

In Old Quebec City, Canada.  Can't find a single climbing related thing to say.  

Carl Schneider wrote: Haven't been here for a while because I'm depressed because I'm broken (bursitis in both shoulders, three tendons with tendinosis on one shoulder, one with tendinosis in the other, haven't been able to climb for three weeks now...

This is sure to get me some guff but here goes. Have you tried CBD oil? I was skeptical for the longest time. Then my gf left a few bottles at my house after we broke up.  I decided to give small amounts to my dog because of her hip-dysplasia. It was hard for her to get up, especially in the mornings. After I was sure she didn't have an allergy to it I started putting it in her food. Within a few days I could tell she was getting up faster and had better mobility. After 2 months she's back to playing Frisbee with my other dog. It's amazing, especially considering she's 13 years old. The vet said her inflammation was down significantly which is why she doesn't have joint pain any longer. Just a thought, good luck and speedy recovery.

Ty Harlacker wrote:

This is sure to get me some guff but here goes. Have you tried CBD oil? I was skeptical for the longest time. Then my gf left a few bottles at my house after we broke up.  I decided to give small amounts to my dog to see if she'd have a bad response. The reason I did this was because of her dysplasia. It was hard for her to get up, especially in the mornings. After I was sure she didn't have an allergy to it I started putting it in her food. Within a few days I could tell she was getting up faster and had better mobility. After 2 months she's back to playing frisbee with my other dog. It's amazing, especially considering she's 13 years old. The vet said her inflammation was down significantly which is why she doesn't have joint pain any longer. Just a thought, good luck and speedy recovery.

Millions of observations say the same thing yet its not yet " proven science " thanks to the pharmaceutical hacks that own the govt

Dallas R wrote: In Old Quebec City, Canada.  Can't find a single climbing related thing to say.  

No Harley's or dogs allowed!!! That fits this thread!

Best, Helen

Ty Harlacker wrote:

This is sure to get me some guff but here goes. Have you tried CBD oil? I was skeptical for the longest time. Then my gf left a few bottles at my house after we broke up.  I decided to give small amounts to my dog to see if she'd have a bad response. The reason I did this was because of her dysplasia. It was hard for her to get up, especially in the mornings. After I was sure she didn't have an allergy to it I started putting it in her food. Within a few days I could tell she was getting up faster and had better mobility. After 2 months she's back to playing frisbee with my other dog. It's amazing, especially considering she's 13 years old. The vet said her inflammation was down significantly which is why she doesn't have joint pain any longer. Just a thought, good luck and speedy recovery.

No. I haven't tried it. Do you think if I did I'd be playing frisbie with your dog?

I too have really reduced post climbing soreness with CBD. At least the stuff produced by my one fiend's company in Denver is really high quality and works-- and I get for free which is very cool. She is a world class chemist though. Some of the other stuff who knows?

Mark O

Thoughts on turning 66 (this month):

Ever since the officer at the Joshua Tree gate retrieved my paid-for annual Park pass and handed me a 'free' lifetime Senior pass, I have been kind of insulted.  I didn't want the senior pass.  Shortly thereafter a Medicare card came in the mail, and all my insurance plans were changed.  I started receiving 'free pudding' after each meal in the diners, and getting the senior prices at movies (without my asking).  My Kaiser doctor took a sudden turn on my first post-65 visit, and I was advised the long list of new things I needed, including the plethora of vaccinations, and hypertensive meds (even though my blood pressure was great) and statins for the eventual problems with my cholesterol, which I don't have.  When I asked about improving my balance for climbing, I was enrolled in a 'balance class' for seniors reliant upon walkers.  ("Fall Prevention: Balance and Home Safety for the Elderly")

Maybe it's vanity, but this was a lousy time to discover that I am old.

I assumed it was the same in the climbing world.  I have no legendary past history as a climber... just a new person wanting to start climbing with no skill and no fitness.  So, I reached out to this community to see if there were any other old people who were climbing.  Turns out, there are A LOT.  

Carl is right... I've been self-deprecating, especially when I head out with strong young climbers like Jeremy.  I've made a lot of assumptions about what they think. (Oh, man... I gotta climb with an old person!)  But as I examine this, I see that the whole drama is mine.  I created it.  Jeremy was just pleased to take out a stoked climber. 

So, whereas for my 65th birthday I wanted to climb Sexy Grandma... for my 66th, I want to ditch the age number altogether.  (Like Prince became 'the artist formerly known as' )  I'd now just like to be 'a person'.  Another climber.  Lose the labels because they've only gotten in the way.  This also removes some built in excuses--I can always blame age for being a shitty climber.  But it allows me to be a climber among climbers, for good or bad, and to work on skill instead of excuses.  

Only one drawback... these threads started as "New and Experienced Climbers over 50".  Does this mean it has to be changed to "New and Experienced Climbers"?    I can see some problems with this...

Lori, that last post is a hoot!

Having spent the last decade with the truly elderly, who were a very lively bunch, shaped my anger at the treatment of old people and assumptions about aging. And yes, assumptions about women creep in there also.

In another thread, someone said, "Old Lady is a degrading nickname for a youthful person, possibly consider losing the old lady shtick?" My reply? "I am 62, no shtick. Why do you assume "old" is degrading and "youthful" is a compliment, hmmmmm? "Old Lady" is quite deliberate as a moniker, precisely because of the stupid assumptions we make about "old" and the desirability of perpetual fantasies of youth. I am me. Helen. Period. Old Lady is in your face I dare ya to tell me what old should look like cuz you're looking at it got a problem with that badassedness. I also have an admittedly odd sense of humour."

I have often had it suggested that I drop the "old". Not gonna happen. I'd much rather rub it in, flaunt it, advertise my age, double dog dare you to try and tell me what I can and can't do...

And maybe, just maybe, it will help ease people into looking past their assumptions. All of them. And seeing...a person.

Best, Helen

Turning 63 in a couple of months, and I just got my senior lifetime pass to the national parks, and I'm stoked! Now all my young climber pals will be inviting me to go boulder with them so they can get into RMNP for free! Seriously though, Age is real. The body changes, we adapt. There are good reasons for us to be talking to each other. As you've said throughout this conversation, in various ways, it's a gift to be able to do this at all.

You know the expression "Dance like nobody is watching"? Well, do that.

Helen... I love it. Same questions, different approaches. You let everyone know ahead of time, with a dare. I’m going to try to remove some labels when I interact. 

There are legitimate real-life issues we deal with that younger climbers may not, including money, retirement, loss of loved ones and some of the physical changes that may effect some of us. But I wouldn’t mind getting rid of some of the wrong ideas—that we are no longer sexual beings, that we are physically weak and/or slow, we are too breakable. Some of these attributes could apply to any one at any age.

So I’m ready to get back out there as a peer, not as a “special needs” person.   Will be climbing a multi pitch tomorrow with my head in a new place. We’ll see how it feels. 

Lori Milas wrote: Helen... I love it. Same questions, different approaches. You let everyone know ahead of time, with a dare. I’m going to try to remove some labels when I interact. 

There are legitimate real-life issues we deal with that younger climbers may not, including money, retirement, loss of loved ones and some of the physical changes that may effect some of us. But I wouldn’t mind getting rid of some of the wrong ideas—that we are no longer sexual beings, that we are physically weak and/or slow, we are too breakable. Some of these attributes could apply to any one at any age.

So I’m ready to get back out there as a peer, not as a “special needs” person.   Will be climbing a multi pitch tomorrow with my head in a new place. We’ll see how it feels. 

Lori? You have a second "assumption" that you are throwing in the faces of even medical people. Diabetic. A reality to deal with, for sure...but you aren't exactly typical, and yes, I do understand type one and type two are quite different. 

But see...you have a gift for people of any age. Inspiration. Even if.....(fill in the blank).

Me too. And everyone else on this thread. At the very least, these threads have shown how civility can go a mighty long way toward friendships.

I'm buying bones at the farmers market tomorrow! My meat guy has them on sale. Beef knuckle and marrow bones, should make good stuff!

Best, Helen