Advice for dealing with a state park director who's opposed to climbing and rappelling?

Well I’m pretty sure I walked by the rock in question and it looked good! It faces the day use parking lot and the ocean. No way you’re going to get on it without being noticed. Good Luck!

DanielHart wrote: Unfortunately scoping for a year doesn’t mean much in the protected bird world. We have canyons that are closed to the public for condors where no birds have been seen in over 25 years. 

Yep. There's a cliff band with climbing on it near Golden, CO that has been closed as long as I have lived in Colorado. Whispers of bird nestings seem to be behind it. You can't even hike there.

Drederek wrote: Well I’m pretty sure I walked by the rock in question and it looked good! It faces the day use parking lot and the ocean. No way you’re going to get on it without being noticed. Good Luck!

yeah, that's the one. It's super obvious if you're on it. I wish it was around the corner.

Old lady H wrote: The other piece of this is the location. A state park on the coast isn't equivalent to Smith rocks. A hefty number of tourists come through, all the time, and that's a real burden, to keep them from being too stupid. People on, or even near, cliff faces and tops might be an activity they want to discourage. Is there any state park on the coast with climbing?

National, not state....but Acadia provides an excellent counterpoint to yours.

Tim Stich wrote:

Yep. There's a cliff band with climbing on it near Golden, CO that has been closed as long as I have lived in Colorado. Whispers of bird nestings seem to be behind it. You can't even hike there.

Which is that?

Start with your local climbing organization to see if they have already reached out to the park for climbing permission. If they have not, see if a rep from the lco can join you in setting up a meeting with the park superintendent. Don't be intimidated by meeting with them, they tend to be really nice people who are there to serve you. Keep in mind that they are public servants. You can call them to set up an appointment or send them an email and patiently wait for them to get back to you as they are often busy doing official work. In my home State, adding climbing to a park is a process that has to go through the state capital for "permitted" climbing. It can take a few months, once the proper paperwork has been sent in, so be patient. It sounds like the cliff in question is very obvious to anyone that visits the park, there is probably a reason why climbing is not permitted there, but it can't hurt to find out why. With climbing being  more popular than ever it's great that you're out there trying to expand the options for everyone . Best of luck!

Old lady H wrote: Is there any state park on the coast with climbing?

There are some state parks in CA that allow climbing on sea cliffs.

Philip Magistro wrote:

Which is that?

Ralston Buttes.

It was closed by a group of bureaucrats who's authority exceeds that of the Division of Parks and Wildlife's top administrators called The Heritage Commission.
The fun part about this group, they are a secret. They basically tell the governor what they want done. I researched who was responsible for closing off Ralston Buttes 20 years ago and somehow found a path that described them. That path has since been erased. A buddy who is also a Park Ranger at one of our favorite climbing state parks thought I was just being conspiracy minded. But then one day he was told to come into the main office and perform some ridiculous busywork task while a group of executive looking people were escorted around. And he also told me he interacted with one who stared him down as if he stepped way over a line.
It is assumed that at least part of this Commission are people connected to the CSU Biology Department.

Anyway, the closure of Ralston Buttes is based on some kind of super rare grass that will only grow there. And that it is irreplaceable wildlife habitat despite a uranium mine below it, Highway 93 to the east and a housing development literally on top of it.
They have cameras up to monitor the closure and are deadly serious about enforcement.
It's a fair opinion that this commission is anti recreational access. We all should keep an eye out for them getting active as this state plummets down into a Progressive hellhole. They will surely take advantage and start culling access again, like they did with the no climbing policy at Cheyenne Mountain State Park 

Some background on a local area told to me recently.

20 years ago a couple of routes were put in. Then a motivated couple moved here with eyes on more routes. They were told no by the person in charge of the FS locally at the time. The area is multi use and the person in charge felt this was not what they wanted. 

That area now has 49 routes. Forgiveness can be a solid approach.

If their parks documentation does not say it's closed, and there are no "no climbing" signs, and you've glassed it extensivly for over a year and there are no nests of any birds, why would you ask the ranger if it's OK? People climb at Rooster Rock and Smith Rocks just fine and no one asked permission to do that.

Now that you've been told "no", you have made a difficulty for yourself that did not exist previously so the game has changed. Rangers can close these places to climbing if they want for many reasons (safety is one).  You don't want to butt heads and lock them into that postion, you'd lose that battle everytime. Rangers often rotate jobs, if it was me, I'd find another place to go work on and keep an eye on the head ranger job and when this one moves on I'd just start climbing there. (if there were still no signs).  

Good luck in either case!

Roots wrote: Flash Mob/Gang Rope it! jk

...good luck : )

What is this Area 51?

I would definitely arrange a meeting with the state park director asking for forgiveness about the mistake/confusion, and to also let them know that you're willing to reach an understanding about what specific activities are legitimately, and legally, restricted/permitted. If the state park director, seeing as they seem fairly new to the area and this job, is receptive - hopefully you can be the one to clear up their confusion about the sport as a whole and how it's treated here in Oregon. Becoming familiar with the way our local government works and the nature of its (often slow) bureaucratic systems can be a huge help. Good luck! Sounds like a cool spot. 

J P wrote: Ryan you might get in touch with Greg Orton...

+1 for reaching out specifically to greg, I've used his climbing books and it seems like I'd be a great idea to have a guy in your corner with his level of expertise...

Old lady H wrote:

... Climbers can be a big help with trails, cleanup, all of that. If it improves the natural area, and doesn't cost the park money or resources, it's a real win for everyone. Phrased as helping the park, being a good partner is the way to go. Maybe start with well publicized cleanup days?

+1 for the great idea of Climbers cleaning up the trashed area and taking credit for it...

If the area is already in poor condition trash wise and "climbers" clean it up and take credit for it, you're doing them a favor and putting them in your pocket. Having someone "owe you a favor " when you want something from them is never a bad idea... and you can do this without permission before ever meeting with them, may be any angle to leverage your
point as responsible climbers will do no damage but improve the area in an ethical way...

Also, may be possible to fond a similar cliff outside the state park boundary, then avoid the dilemma all together...?

Opposed to Rappelling, you say?  Smart Guy, you should always lower (when appropriate) and never rappel off single pitch routes.

Most everything has been said, but frankly I am quite surprised that the Access Fund  "told me last year that basically it's better to ask forgiveness than permission", though I might reach out again here soon.:"  (or did they use the word "easier", and not "better" ???)

Forgiveness might work most of the time for a "once only" event, but if your goal is to open the place, I'd say (as many other have already, and as is your plan) to work with them.

I can't believe the Access Fund doesn't have a "help" manual for how to approach management, and what issues might be raised.

I agree with those above who said the ranger(s) are worried about non-climbers seeing climbers and getting themselves in trouble, especially at a popular place like a beach. (and if the crag isn't too high and/or is lower angle.)  In CT most of the cliffs in the town of Meridian are closed for exactly that reason. Non-climbers start up, get to a place where they can't go up or down and dial 911. Since there isn't an organized volunteer "mountain" rescue group to call on, this equates to lots of headaches for the town police and fire depts that have to come and rescue.

One thing that MA state parks that are large enough to have a ranger(s) (Like Crow Hill in Lemonster, MA)  did ( ? ? still do ???)  is a climber registration requirement.  To climb you have (had?) to register once ( once a year??) with the ranger and sign a waver that said, basically, "climbing is dangerous and should only be done with proper equipment and after proper instruction". No "checking you out", No "what's your experience" (which might put some "liability" onto the Rangers and the Strate) ..just a plain and simple acknowledgment and acceptance of risk.

Elijah Sheffler wrote:

+1 for the great idea of Climbers cleaning up the trashed area and taking credit for it...

If the area is already in poor condition trash wise and "climbers" clean it up and take credit for it, you're doing them a favor and putting them in your pocket. Having someone "owe you a favor " when you want something from them is never a bad idea... and you can do this without permission before ever meeting with them, may be any angle to leverage your
point as responsible climbers will do no damage but improve the area in an ethical way...

Also, may be possible to fond a similar cliff outside the state park boundary, then avoid the dilemma all together...?

This is the hard part. Typical southern Oregon rock is sedimentary but this is actually some extrusive igneous rock as determined by a 1963 Oregon geological survey.

There is one other wall with maybe 3 routes on it, but it's a bit of a hike down the beach or I can cut a trail in but I need time to do that.

Robert Hall wrote: Most everything has been said, but frankly I am quite surprised that the Access Fund  "told me last year that basically it's better to ask forgiveness than permission", though I might reach out again here soon.:"  (or did they use the word "easier", and not "better" ???)

Forgiveness might work most of the time for a "once only" event, but if your goal is to open the place, I'd say (as many other have already, and as is your plan) to work with them.

I can't believe the Access Fund doesn't have a "help" manual for how to approach management, and what issues might be raised.

I agree with those above who said the ranger(s) are worried about non-climbers seeing climbers and getting themselves in trouble, especially at a popular place like a beach. (and if the crag isn't too high and/or is lower angle.)  In CT most of the cliffs in the town of Meridian are closed for exactly that reason. Non-climbers start up, get to a place where they can't go up or down and dial 911. Since there isn't an organized volunteer "mountain" rescue group to call on, this equates to lots of headaches for the town police and fire depts that have to come and rescue.

One thing that MA state parks that are large enough to have a ranger(s) (Like Crow Hill in Lemonster, MA)  did ( ? ? still do ???)  is a climber registration requirement.  To climb you have (had?) to register once ( once a year??) with the ranger and sign a waver that said, basically, "climbing is dangerous and should only be done with proper equipment and after proper instruction". No "checking you out", No "what's your experience" (which might put some "liability" onto the Rangers and the Strate) ..just a plain and simple acknowledgment and acceptance of risk.

Yeah I was surprised by that advice as well. 

Oh, and Greg said he'd be reaching out again once this spring.

It's not a low angle slab or anything, you'd need to make ( to partially crib an NFL phrase) some rock climbing moves to even start. Though you can just walk to the top. But that footpath, while never actually built, has existed for decades.

Ryan Bond wrote:

Yeah I was surprised by that advice as well. 

Oh, and Greg said he'd be reaching out again once this spring.

It's not a low angle slab or anything, you'd need to make ( to partially crib an NFL phrase) some rock climbing moves to even start. Though you can just walk to the top. But that footpath, while never actually built, has existed for decades.

Any other updates? Would love to scope it out sometime on one of those "sunny on the coast, rainy in the interior valley" weekends - if we wouldn't raise any hackles :) 

J P wrote:

Any other updates? Would love to scope it out sometime on one of those "sunny on the coast, rainy in the interior valley" weekends - if we wouldn't raise any hackles :) 

We could certainly boulder around there. If we had enough micro gear a brave souls could even lead it.