The *REAL* 50 Classics

Eric Fjellanger wrote: What about challenging yourself to make a list of 50 more classics with none of the original 50?

check 50 favorite climbs. the best from both books would probably make a pretty solid 50

Buck Rio wrote: I wish I had done any one of those routes back when I had a higher tolerance for suffering. Pingora was the only route on that list I have ever but boots on, and we immediately got snowed/stormed off.  Climbed top of Bastille from Werks Up, wasn't that impressed.  Naked Edge has a better mystique to it, I have never climbed it.

Not saying the Bastille should be on the list, but doing the top pitches after Werk Supp means you missed the best 2 pitches of the Bastille Crack

Drew Nevius wrote:

Not saying the Bastille should be on the list, but doing the top pitches after Werk Supp means you missed the best 2 pitches of the Bastille Crack

Probably, but there was a shit show going on lower down, party of three with a sloth leading.

I'm enjoying your list and this thread. Thanks! Here are a few of my thoughts...

The Carbondale Short Bus is an aesthetic line for sure, but IMHO doesn't make the list. In fact, trying hard enough, I could maybe come up with 50 routes at IC/Moab alone to go on the list before CSB. Also I would personally replace Epinephrine with Cloud Tower, though many would likely disagree.

Don Ferris III wrote: I’d argue Fine Jade should be replaced with The North Face of Castleton.  Sure Fine Jade is a great route but it’s soft for the grade and doesn’t really even summit a tower. Also, Castleton is the king of towers and is not included. Or perhaps Primrose is the best tower route, certainly up the best Tower... 

The North Face of Castleton should definitely be on the list, and Primrose Dihedrals too. Since we have to 'make room' I guess those would be at the expense of Carbondale Short Bus for sure and Jah Man. Jah Man is certainly a nice route up a great tower, but there are better routes in the area, including IMHO Fine Jade. It is good to see Lightning Bolt Cracks on the list!

Chris Owen wrote:32. Mount Whitney East Buttress over East Face...

Agreed, or maybe the Harding Route on Keeler Needle trumps them both?

Buck Rio wrote: Wouldn't every climb on The Hulk be classic?

Several would, but for such areas I think it makes sense to limit it to 1 or 2 to a single crag. As such, Positive Vibes seems to be the natural choice. While there are higher quality lines on The Hulk, they are much less popular due to higher grades. PV is easy enough to have been climbed by enough people to attain classic status IMHO.

G1nj3r wrote:  ...The org. route on the Mace?...

As much as I love Sedona, That route doesn't belong on the list. Sure it has lots of history and some unique-ish moves and descent, but the climbing itself isn't all that wonderful. In fact, if I were to make a list just for Sedona, it wouldn't even be in the top 10, maybe not the top 25. But that's just, like, my opinion man! It's likely that no Sedona routes make that list. My own top 50? For sure there are likely several Sedona routes on it, but I'm too much of a homer to be impartial.

Edited to add:  Matthes Crest is great; it's not really a climb, but is sure is classic! I would personally add it in place of one of those frigid ice & snow routes up North, but I'm way too much of a baby in the cold to be objective about that. YMMV.

I would add El Matador on the Tower just for the 2nd pitch. I fell up it lol, and my calves and hip hurt for a week, but it felt really good when it was over...

Devils Tower deserves representation in some way, and Durrance is doesn't do the Tower justice. I would struggle to pick a best route even among my limited experience at the Tower, but I think Buck Rio's suggestion of El Mat would make sense as it is the most "classic"

I would add the Scenic Cruise, Wunch's Dihedral (or Center Route), Levitation 29, and Spear Me the Details. Maybe VMC DD, Cloud Tower, or Original Route, but I've never climbed them.

My 50 classics are top secret. too many people, too many climbers, too easy to ruin a route by putting it on a list....

for the most part i dig the list. i had a similar idea to make my own 50 classics, and we ended up with a lot of the same replacement climbs. cool!

my solution to the fine jade vs n face castleton argument: make one of the fifty classics be the castle valley classics. N face, fine jade, honeymoon, jah. youve got to do them all anyway, and it feels wrong to leave any one of them out. plus theyre all so short on their own that alone, they hardly seem worthy of a fifty classic. but together...probably the finest collection of towers in the desert! (for mortals at least)

along the same lines, i would vote to replace lightning bolt cracks with primrose for sure. lightning bolts is an amazing route (and gets bonus points for historic significance), but it can be done in 2 pitches...my personal feel on the fifty classics is that tiebreaker should go to longer/"bigger-undertaking-factor" routes. and plus moses is just cool. i see others have already covered the arguments against carbondale short bus..im against a "crag route" being on the list, but if there is gonna be a crag route on the list, might as well be super crack right? its historic, plus has anybody climbed in the creek and not climbed sc? but again, i dont really think an indian creek route should be on the list anyway.

glad to see idaho getting some love. and +1 for matador, devils tower deserves a route! squamish has a good argument too

i don't think it's possible to equate pure ice, pure rock, mountaineering, scrambling,  and Alaska-style mixed alpinism into the same list. Same with single pitch routes. Some single pitch routes stick in my minds as much as multipitch classics. That's like 7 lists.

Pretty sure 1, 2, and 3 are Bastille, Wind Ridge and The Bulge.

what no "cat in the hat" ?!?.pffft some list

Grand Traverse? That doesn't get too many ascents.  I'd say the two "classic" routes in the Teets are Owen Spalding and CMC route. 

Mike Womack wrote:  I'd say the two "classic" routes in the Teets are Owen Spalding and CMC route. 

For moderate Teton classics, I'd add the Upper Exum and Koven.  As Fryxell wrote of the FA of Owen: "The climb itself proved good, though more difficult ones have been made in the range. However I doubt that any Teton ascent has contained more of variety and interest."

What is the shortest route on the original list?

With a subjective definition of "classic" you can make arguments for anything, but it would be hard to argue for these things. The Upper Exum is really uninteresting in comparison with the Lower, and the OS is almost entirely a scramble with at most 3 pitches of technical rock including a 5.4 crux. I don't think they compare with anything on the original list.

I haven't climbed either the NF or NR of the Grand, but it does kind of seem like they're packing the classics in pretty tight on that mountain.

I've heard it suggested that Walt Bailey is the best moderate on Devil's Tower, and I thought it was indeed really good. Short though.

I guess that probably answers my question, that Devil's Tower is the shortest technical climbing on the orignal list.

Mike Womack wrote: Grand Traverse? That doesn't get too many ascents.  I'd say the two "classic" routes in the Teets are Owen Spalding and CMC route. 

Sure, but when you look at the Tetons, you don't say, "Hell yeah, I want to climb the Owen-Spaulding." You say, "Holy shit! It'd be so cool to climb all of them!" 

Kinda hard to compare like 12 miles of walking with essentially a single climbing move to 12 miles of gorgeous alpine ridge traversing. Besides, it's not like the Grand Traverse is some huge unattainable climb. Yeah it's been done in sub 7 hours by aerobic monsters, but for us mortals it's a wonderful 24-72 hour alpine adventure with no climbing harder than 5.8, challenging but manageable route-finding, generally good rock, good bivy sites for spending the night, and wonderful exposure for most of the time up on the ridge.

As for all the others, agreed that although desert towers are totally f'ing awesome, having 3-4 on the list is kinda a stretch. Primrose should replace Jah Man, then take your pick between Fine Jade, North Face of Castleton, and Lightning Bolt Cracks. All are excellent. Take Carbondale Short Bus off, there's other pitches in the Creek that are more historically significant (Supercrack, duh), more adventurous (Curiosity, Dead Crow, Jupiter...etc), and longer (9 Lives, Sacred Cow, Sinestra).

Scenic Cruise should replace the Bastille Crack.

And the Centennial Route...I mean...it's awesome. But I think that's our local bias taking. While I like the Centennial, in the realm of long, semi-hard alpine rock routes, it can't really compare to the others on the list like the Beckey-Chouinard. I haven't been on this one, but maybe replace with All Along the Watchtower...?

Mike Womack wrote: Grand Traverse? That doesn't get too many ascents.  I'd say the two "classic" routes in the Teets are Owen Spalding and CMC route. 

It is hands down the classic of the range

Matt Zia wrote:

Sure, but when you look at the Tetons, you don't say, "Hell yeah, I want to climb the Owen-Spaulding." You say, "Holy shit! It'd be so cool to climb all of them!" 

Kinda hard to compare like 12 miles of walking with essentially a single climbing move to 12 miles of gorgeous alpine ridge traversing. Besides, it's not like the Grand Traverse is some huge unattainable climb. Yeah it's been done in sub 7 hours by aerobic monsters, but for us mortals it's a wonderful 24-72 hour alpine adventure with no climbing harder than 5.8, challenging but manageable route-finding, generally good rock, good bivy sites for spending the night, and wonderful exposure for most of the time up on the ridge.

Sure agreed.  But "classic" to me doesn't necessarily mean the longest climb.  With that logic, the Nose should be removed and the El Cap girdle should take its place.  Linkups are usually contrived (not always a bad thing).  

Matt Castelli wrote: I'm with Don - Naked edge over Bastille.

Or Yellow Spur for that matter.

Carbondale short bus isn't a Creek classic. It's just hard.

Maybe Sinestra, or Wiggins 1, or Excuse Station, Air Sweden if ya gotta make it hard, or any number of others.