Taping Webbing and cord tails

Hi Guys, from what I understand nylon tubular webbing does slip a very minimal amount when tied into a sling with a water knot. Do you guys tape your sling tails? Do you tape your cordelette tails?Does it even matter to tape them?

Thanks,

North Col

I dont...  (and have never heard of taping webbing).  Besides will the tape hold anything of force?  Plus I don't see the tape holding up to weather and will fall off littering the area.  If there's any concern leave some tail and periodically check the knots.

North Col wrote: Hi Guys, from what I understand nylon tubular webbing does slip a very minimal amount when tied into a sling with a water knot. Do you guys tape your sling tails? Do you tape your cordelette tails?Does it even matter to tape them?

Thanks,

North Col

Nope, I've heard of people sewing water knot tails... I bought a nylon 60cm sling for like 3 dollars during the holiday sales.  Just use sewn runners.

If you must use a water knot check the tails frequently, I keep gear racked on tied slings in the gear bin and just taking stuff in and out I've had multiple water knots come undone.

I do this. It works.

Those speaking about tape holding up to force are missing the point; the knot itself holds up to any force being applied to the system and the tape is only there to prevent webbing creep in the time between force being applied (carrying the webbing on harness or in a bag) 

I only tape my gear to mark it..

I wouldn't suggest taping to keep the material from creeping because you can get lax in checking it.  If your worried about frayed ends, just melt them.

Harold Sutton wrote: I wouldn't suggest taping to keep the material from creeping because you can get lax in checking it.  If your worried about frayed ends, just melt them.

Fraying is not the concern.

North Col wrote: Hi Guys, from what I understand nylon tubular webbing does slip a very minimal amount when tied into a sling with a water knot. Do you guys tape your sling tails? Do you tape your cordelette tails?Does it even matter to tape them?

Thanks,

North Col

No, tie a tight, correctly dressed knot with sufficient tails, and your knot will be excellent. Taping (never heard of this) would just mess things up and would contribute nothing structural to the knot.

Whats your next question? ;-)  

I don't tape them, I mostly avoid using tied runners. If I am using a tied runner, I make sure the tails are long and inspect it before each use. Knot creep is real; see this accident report of a fatality from the knot failing: nps.gov/aboutus/foia/upload…

The tape knot slips under cyclic loading which is why abseil anchors can fail, use for things like draws it should be a non issue just check semi regularly.
This being said just use a sewn runner, like seriously sewn slings are by far the cheapest thing you can buy that's climbing related, knotted slings aren't worth the potential risk and effort for the minimal savings. 

If you're concerned about knot creep either sew a few stitches in the tail or just inspect them frequently and retie with long tails periodically. I have a few tied shoulder sling that I use to rack gear and/or draws that are tied at the perfect length for my torso. I usually end up retying them ever year or so because the tail gets too short. 

Scour the internet for sales - a rack of sewn nylon runners should set you back less than $50 and can last up to 10 years. Or sell in 5 when you upgrade to something skinnier and get some of your cash back. Extra $40 over tying slings? Well worth it.

It was fairly common to use sticky tape in the 70s before the advent of sewn tape slings. Personally I found it ineffective and often one tail still slipped towards the knot. Also it wasn't only tubular tape that slipped. So best just put full body weight on knot to tighten and check tails before each  session.
Incidentally I've read that double fishermans are actually stronger than water knots but don't know if there's less slippage. Also the possibility of using two sequential water knots has been discussed. Both these options are probably too bulky to have much appeal.

that guy named seb wrote: The tape knot slips under cyclic loading which is why abseil anchors can fail, 

this. 

just get into the habit of untying your water knots when you store your slings. the easiest way to avoid this issue is to re-tie your water knot at point of use. everyone remembers the accident on the grand teton a few years ago...

There really isn't much reason to use DIY tied slings all the time anymore.  Stop being cheap asses people!

My thinking on tape is it won't provide ANY meaningful backup as tape glue isn't a reliable backup and the tape WILL make it harder to see the tails.

As for knotted slings, cord etc.  one big thing to remember is that one often ties those to measure or fit a specific purpose at a belay or whatever (distances from anchors, master point etc.).  So the knot is untied soon after it was tied.   If you tie a master point knot(s) at a belay at least one arm is now redundant from the water or fisherman's knot if it does slip through and fail.  So there are ways with careful rigging to back up that main knot in the sling.

At rap anchors, fixed belays etc........  It can't be understated how important it is to check fixed slings and cords.  Is it faded? Is it chewed or rubbed? How is it rigged (edges, "American Triangle", etc.)?  What is the knot and how does it look?  HOW MUCH TAIL??

To all who say "just use sewn slings" a big YES. They are the best, cheapest and totally reliable.

BUT...just to clarify, "back in the day" before there were sewn slings (Yes, Virginia, there once was such a day; this was WAY before cams), I  (and others) would tape the end of knotted slings, BUT more to keep the ends "out of the way" when 3 or 4 were over-the-shoulder.  Somehow the un-taped ends would tend to (sometimes) kind of interact with the other slings and sort of tangle.  Of course, this most often seemed to happen  just when you wanted to remove one to extend a piece of gear....so "North Col" you're not crazy and (I'd guess) have an "older" mentor.  Good for you!

If you want to set a knot for eternity...go ahead and tie the knot leaving sufficient tails, snug it up, immerse the knot in water and then load with body weight/bounce. Should you ever want to lengthen the sling, use a knife.

ABB wrote: If you want to set a knot for eternity...go ahead and tie the knot leaving sufficient tails, snug it up, immerse the knot in water and then load with body weight/bounce. Should you ever want to lengthen the sling, use a knife.

Or tie a dbl fishermans. Bulky, ugly, and permanent.

curt86iroc wrote:

this. 

just get into the habit of untying your water knots when you store your slings. the easiest way to avoid this issue is to re-tie your water knot at point of use. everyone remembers the accident on the grand teton a few years ago...

I may be missing something. Surely we tie a knot and then check its OK. There's no need to always repeat the stages of untying and retying if we always check before each session.

i shore wrote:

I may be missing something. Surely we tie a knot and then check its OK. There's no need to always repeat the stages of untying and retying if we always check before each session.

the problem is people tie a knot once and forget about it. i agree with you, if everyone checked their knot every time, we wouldn't have the problem...but people don't. 

i shore wrote:

I may be missing something. Surely we tie a knot and then check its OK. There's no need to always repeat the stages of untying and retying if we always check before each session.

I sometimes forget to check the pressure in my car tires. So now every week I let all the air out of them and re-inflate them.