New and experienced climbers over 50, #3

Lori Milas wrote:

I did it. Do you have these routes memorized? It just looked...stark and crazy. The climbing itself was ok if I could get past the feeling of exposure. 

I thought of you Jeff. I asked if as long as I was hanging there could I invert and take a selfie?   

The whole point of that climb is the exposure and the beautiful setting. It's a classic. 

Lori Milas wrote: And...once back on Mother Earth I got some basic lessons. Although it’s still new (and I was shaken from that climb), it’s starting to come together. I understood it on the spot, but decided to take pictures so I can study it more later. May (will) do more of this this week. Basic two-bolt setup with extension and rappel setup with backup sling and knots. And one more shot of the route we climbed.   

TOP PHOTO, FACE THE GATES away from each other, geez(Cord looks great). Extended Rap/back up deal is so not necessary adding all that crap to your harness, what a JOKE, more AMGA junk, sorry for my outrage lol. Other ways to back up your rap with way less and just as safe if not safer, if you ever have to pass a knot you would have to de-rig the lower back up and put one above the belay device so why not  just have one above from the get-go without extending the belay device in the first place. this is all Client new waveguide crap. (so glad I got out of the guiding biz years ago) So overkill. Again doing all that is a BIG TIME waster on big climbs.

This sport, so much diversity, challenges that leave normal people shaking there heads, pain, triumph, life.  We each find our own place in this world.  What a great way to live.

Dallas R wrote: This sport, so much diversity, challenges that leave normal people shaking there heads, pain, triumph, life.  We each find our own place in this world.  What a great way to live.

Some people think this is a sport, for me, it's a way of life, something I do almost every day, not a sport for me.

Dallas - glad Barb is ok. That was a big fall. Those unexpected falls (holds breaking) can be really awkward. Tell her to heal up fast and hope it doesn’t mess with her head too much. Oh - and we bought a little pull behind camper today! We won’t be retiring in it, but it’s a start!

Also - tegaderm for the wounds. They will heal faster with less scarring and more comfortably than regular bandages and ointments. You can get large sheets and cut to size - amazon has it.

Thinking about that last climb yesterday. I believe I unclipped four bolts on my way up. So does this make it technically a sports route? I was surprised too at how slippery some of the rock was...is this because of the many climbs on this rock? And is there a way to spot slippery granite  and work with it? I’m looking forward to going back and really enjoying the actual climb next time because it was gorgeous. And it looked to me like the 5.8 to the right would actually be easier.

I did also have a real discomfort in being lowered from this route. The cut of the rock made it difficult for me to back down and stay on the face...I eventually swung over the side and lowered down the adjoining face. I almost think I would have felt better rappelling myself. 

I also didn’t mean to stir up a hornets nest with pictures of the rigging. (I took many more). In the interest of clarity I should have said that Stephen was not giving me a class...he was trying to answer my question of “Can you show me what the setup was up there?” He made it clear that what he rigged is not what I would ever see if I was climbing with friends. He said it was overkill but it allowed him to remain hands-Free if needed, and to stay at the edge to watch me and take pictures. He threw two cams in the wall and said “Picture the two bolts on top...” and of course those bolts had opposing biners. I’d like to walk through that whole setup again because the number of steps (tying and untying-on and off various ropes) was baffling.  His explanation of the backup sling and prusick(??) on the rappell setup sounded reasonable to me. (And he explained that with a different belay device he would choose different setup.) it will be a long time before I can comment on the wisdom of knots and rigging...right now I’m just trying to watch and learn how various people do things.

Last thought...sort of as an afterthought I’m getting to deal with my fears of exposure and height and of not having total control all the time. I got so curious at all the ropes and knots up there I forgot to be dizzy and nervous about walking around at the top. I decided to climb with a fanny pack loaded with sugar in case at any point I needed it...easy solution to difficult problem. Beautiful view and generous stoked people everywhere I go.

ErikaNW wrote:  hope it doesn’t mess with her head too much. Oh - and we bought a little pull behind camper today! We won’t be retiring in it, but it’s a start!

Also - tegaderm for the wounds. They will heal faster with less scarring and more comfortably than regular bandages and ointments. You can get large sheets and cut to size - amazon has it.

Didn't mess with her head, she was going to go back up to get the quick draw, I said no, sit and drink some water.  

Hurray on the little pull behind, that's what we started out with.  They are great because you can load them up a day or so in advance and be out the door on your way, then when you get there you don't have to worry about the rain.

Thanks for the tip on the Tegaderm, we are now in San Antonio,  when I went to the "Drug Store" in Ft. Davis it had been converted into a restaurant, no medical supplies.  The two other stores in town were about sold out of med supplies, betadine and tegaderm were not available.  We are going to run her by an urgent care facility to see if they can dig out the remaining rock and get a tetanus shot.  I have offered repeatedly to scrub the wound with a stiff brush and hydrogen peroxide to get it cleaned up really good, that's the way I handled my leg scrape, but she is not having any of it.  So a trip to a health professional will happen today.

Lori Milas wrote: Thinking about that last climb yesterday. I believe I unclipped four bolts on my way up. So does this make it technically a sports route? I was surprised too at how slippery some of the rock was...is this because of the many climbs on this rock? ...
I did also have a real discomfort in being lowered from this route. The cut of the rock made it difficult for me to back down and stay on the face...I eventually swung over the side and lowered down the adjoining face. I almost think I would have felt better rappelling myself.

…..

Last thought...sort of as an afterthought I’m getting to deal with my fears of exposure and height and of not having total control all the time. I got so curious at all the ropes and knots up there I forgot to be dizzy and nervous about walking around at the top. I decided to climb with a fanny pack loaded with sugar in case at any point I needed it...easy solution to difficult problem. Beautiful view and generous stoked people everywhere I go.

Good question about whether or not it's a sport route, and you will get varying answers depending on the climbers history, pure trad climbers will say yes, it's sport, it has a bolt on in. Pure sports climbers will say no, it's not well enough protected to be a pure sport climb.  The rest of us might call it a mixed route, a route that has some sport bolts but also you can also add protection with trad gear.  

In the lowering thing I think you mentioned taking big swing.  These can get pretty harry sometimes.  But was this because of the belayer or just the angle of the climb?  On many routes directly down does not follow the route.  If you are not following the route down you must also consider rope length.  When the route is almost diagonal and we are lowering or rapping  we will clip an alpine draw to the line that has the draws on it, or the tight line, to prevent swings.  If someone is following on top rope we will clip the rope they are using through some draws to act as a "redirect" for the anchor, swing prevention 101.

I too have a reaction to great heights and being on the edge of a cliff.  So your curiosity at the anchor is an excellent way to stay focused, that focus is what keeps fear from encroaching.  Everyone should have a healthy respect for height. 

Jeffrey Constine wrote: Some people think this is a sport, for me, it's a way of life, something I do almost every day, not a sport for me.

I see your point, sport is one of those terms whose urban meaning has exceeded it's literal meaning.  So I went and looked it up.  We do not have teams competing against each other, therefor climbing is not a sport. But I think I read that climbing will be a category in the 2020 Olympics.  

I am so confused....

Lori Milas wrote: Thinking about that last climb yesterday. I believe I unclipped four bolts on my way up. So does this make it technically a sports route? I was surprised too at how slippery some of the rock was...is this because of the many climbs on this rock? And is there a way to spot slippery granite  and work with it? I’m looking forward to going back and really enjoying the actual climb next time because it was gorgeous. And it looked to me like the 5.8 to the right would actually be easier.

I'd call the SW Corner of Headstone Rock a sport route. It's got 4 bolts in about 50 feet of climbing.

There are other bolted routes, including in J-Tree, that would be considered trad routes because of the way they were established and for the big runouts. For example, Walk On the Wild Side has something like 10 bolts over 3 entire pitches (200-300 vertical feet). Totally run out. 

Dallas R wrote:Good question about whether or not it's a sport route, and you will get varying answers depending on the climbers history, pure trad climbers will say yes, it's sport, it has a bolt on in. Pure sports climbers will say no, it's not well enough protected to be a pure sport climb.  The rest of us might call it a mixed route, a route that has some sport bolts but also you can also add protection with trad gear.  

It's complicated, but you don't have it right.  Bolts have been a part of trad climbing for decades.  Ignoring various mitigating nuances, the basic question is whether the ascent was made ground-up without any kind of pre-inspection and whether the bolts were placed on the lead, using opportunities provided by the rock.

I don't think there is anything "tradder" then heading up a steep crackless slab with a hammer and drill and no good idea if, when, and where one will be able to stop and place a bolt. All the challenges and uncertainties of trad climbing are crystallized in this endeavor.  Unfortunately, once the bolts are in, the climb is a very different matter for those who come later.  Which is not to say lacking in challenge, but the deep uncertainty is gone.

Dallas R wrote: We are going to run her by an urgent care facility to see if they can dig out the remaining rock and get a tetanus shot.  I have offered repeatedly to scrub the wound with a stiff brush and hydrogen peroxide to get it cleaned up really good, that's the way I handled my leg scrape, but she is not having any of it.  So a trip to a health professional will happen today.

I used to do a lot of cycling, racing, and had some very bad crashes with a lot of road rash. Doctors always suggested using traditional wound dressings and changing them regularly. Once I discovered tagaderm I never used the burn dressings again. The stuff is miraculous and really helps healing. It also allows you to wear clothes that dont get saturated, and allows you to shower without discomfort. Great stuff and its worth hunting it down. Even if you only find smaller patches you can piece them together to cover the entire wound. She will be way more comfortable, especially sleeping. Good luck and hope it heals fast.

I can’t help it. This was one amazing route—I’m still sort of basking in it. The route is the arete up the left side and it was quite beautiful—maybe 30-40 foot climb after 60 ft scramble.  I’ll be climbing all weekend so hopefully can go back and do it again and the 5.8 route up the middle. I don’t know how I didn’t know about this before but obviously Jeff and Senor know it well. (Rock formation is Headstone, route is Cryptic 5.6 I believe, center route 5.8)

I would like to have a word with the rating committee. They must just make it up on the fly.

​EDIT: Scratch that. Route is SW Corner. Center route is Cryptic. 

Where’s Carl?

SWC is 5.6 /Cryptic is 5.8 center route is TR 5.8ish.

Lori Milas wrote: I can’t help it. This was one amazing route—I’m still sort of basking in it. The route is the arete up the left side and it was quite beautiful—maybe 30-40 foot climb after 60 ft scramble.  I’ll be climbing all weekend so hopefully can go back and do it again and the 5.8 route up the middle. I don’t know how I didn’t know about this before but obviously Jeff and Senor know it well. (Rock formation is Headstone, route is Cryptic 5.6 I believe, center route 5.8)

I would like to have a word with the rating committee. They must just make it up on the fly.

EDIT: Scratch that. Route is SW Corner. Center route is Cryptic.

https://www.thecrag.com/climbing/united-states/joshua-tree/route/20850763

Lori Milas wrote: Where’s Carl?

Just so you know, I'll be following your climbs when I am in JTree     You're inpsirational to me and I'm very much enjoying your journey   

So please make sure you fill in your tick list on MP so I can do all your climbs   

Cryptic is the right hand corner in the photos you're showing. When you go back be sure to get this photo op.

​Cryptic Jug hang​​​

Squeak wrote:

Just so you know, I'll be following your climbs when I am in JTree     You're inpsirational to me and I'm very much enjoying your journey   

So please make sure you fill in your tick list on MP so I can do all your climbs   

Squeak, that's really sweet.  Thank you!  But you do know that my climbing skills and ability are so limited that I'm going slow... this is a starter's journey. There are a lot of great climbers here on MP and on this thread who you might want to really watch.  :-) 

I'm sort of regrouping here in J Tree.  I've been thinking about all the great climbers here on this thread... too many to name... and all the climbing that goes on without the need for anything but a rope and a friend.... sometimes not even a friend.  It hasn't been that simple right out of the gate...  

I'm obviously not alone, because 95% of the people in my gym have never gone outdoors, and wouldn't know where to start.  

Events conspired this week to cancel the group 'climbfest'.  In a few weeks, there will be another, better one... a top roping 'climbfest'... but I don't know if I want to make that drive again. So... making lemonade out of lemons, I put together a week of solid climbing with guides or friends of guides.  It's worked out well.  

Jeff said this is not a sport... it's a lifestyle.  I think we all feel this.  I'm not here to learn a sport... but I am here to learn as much and as quickly as possible--with people I know, in a place I love.  And then off to new horizons.  

So, this weekend I'll be out with Bob again... and now that I've had experience with a number of respected coaches.... I'm appreciating Bob.  I really doubt he will allow me to go for the thrill.  He understands climbing in terms of learning slowly, hours/weeks/years on the rock... nothing really gained in thrashing up a grade.  I learned a crazy amount in a few short days with Bob... even though the climbs themselves weren't crazy hard.  I think this is what I need right now.  And knots!  I hope he'll be happy to see the knots I've been practicing.  

If what I'm wanting is to throw a rope over my shoulder, head out to any crag, and be able to climb it and be a good partner... then patient instruction and hours on the rock are the way to get there. (and the map, compass and garmin!   ) I'm going to give a nod to age here.  Maybe it would be different starting with a group at 19... but respecting the situation as it is, it will take some work.  What does bother me is the money spent in this endeavor.... the hippie in me feels it's pretty yuppie.  Let's just say it's a careful budget, and money better spent than in so many other ways.  

This is out in the motel parking lot this morning.  Jeffrey, is this you?  (seriously... do I remember seeing a similar picture of you on some kind of rocket?) 

Bob Understands money he’s here to make money and that’s all there is to it  as long as your paying  he’s playing lol~