Ethics of "stick clipping" your first trad piece on a route

A local trad route begins with several insecure (for the grade) moves. Is it fair to stand on a friend's shoulders to "stick clip" a first piece prior to getting underway? Or does that tactic make it an aid climb?

If it keeps you from getting hurt, it's a good idea. 

I would let my reasons for climbing it determine the acceptable means. 

do you think there's a good chance you'll deck? just put it in, bad style is better than broken ankles

there's a climb in Jtree https://www.mountainproject.com/route/105722353/okelleys-crack that I did it for, still had fun. Now I do eventually plan on going back and doing it in proper style, but only when I know that i can stick that beginning section. In the end its up to you, what you want out of the climb. probly not "trad" but whatever. you do you

Shoulder stand is totally legitimate as long as the climber continues in an upward manner, without returning to ground. Written and verbal documentation MUST note this unconventional move.

*note rule is in the Style chapter, not ethics.

My understanding has always been that all such tactics are fair game as long as you're honest about what you did.

"Bad Style is better than Broken Ankles".
Saved for a future route name, priceless!
And btw, true to boot.

There is good historical precedent for the “courte-echelle” ​being perfectly legit.​​​

I once 'rodeo placed' a nut 13ft up a route in Indian Creek of all places so we could aid through an unprotected V5 start vs risking the fall without a pad.
Fun climb! Never once felt bad about skipping the start.

Also, the nut was bomber. And there were witnesses =)

FrankPS wrote: If it keeps you from getting hurt, it's a good idea. 

Good words to live by.  See what I did there?

"Two climbers are a climbing unit"
I believe the quote (or words to that effect) is from G.W.Young's "Mountaincraft"; a more "trad" how-to-climb-book I don't think you can find even today!  94 years after 1st publication.

Then there's always "To your own self be true", as Ronald B paraphrased  and John W agreed with.

It's not as good of style as doing it without pre-placed gear. But, as mentioned earlier safety>style. However, just make sure you get a good chance to inspect it while on your friend's shoulders before you commit to it. 

above link isnt my blog, but i also have totally stick-clip-placed-a-nut for the start of stone wave at the T wall. its a burly start with definite broken ankle potential.

Pic of the Shenanigans please and please oh please let it be a pink tri cam-

Parker Kempf wrote: http://weekendcragger.blogspot.com/2015/12/stick-clipping-nuts-at-t-wall-2015.html

above link isnt my blog, but i also have totally stick-clip-placed-a-nut for the start of stone wave at the T wall. its a burly start with definite broken ankle potential.

You reserve broken ankles for bouldering 

As long as you can look your pinkpointing self in the mirror at the end of the day... 

The essence of climbing is that you can do w/e you want and particularly to keep safe, as long as you don't mislead others as to your accomplishments.

Jason Todd wrote: Shoulder stand is totally legitimate as long as the climber continues in an upward manner, without returning to ground. Written and verbal documentation MUST note this unconventional move.

*note rule is in the Style chapter, not ethics.

I think as long as you downclimb to the ground in control you preserve the integrity of the send.

Out of curiosity, which route? I know a good number of the local routes and it might provide some input. In addition. Is the reason for stick clipping that you can't get anything in sooner or are afraid of rope drag? For example, I place a #2 at the start of Stab in the Dark at Moore's and clip it short but have been known to have a non-belaying partner unclip it if I fear the rope drag is going to be a problem. Feel free to PM if you wanna take this discussion offline. 

Stick clipping a hex on "Edge of the deep green sea 11a" devils glen, ontario canada. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do