Lori Milas wrote: Does anyone have a thought on hangboarding?
I'm encouraged that at the climbing gym I'm developing more endurance and strength. But my fingers are the first thing to go... even if I had the energy to keep climbing. Is there anything that will strengthen fingers and prevent pulley injuries? (I am REALLY liking that yoga seems to reverse the finger clutch by splaying fingers in various poses.)
And is finger strength even important outdoors on those 5.9+ routes?
Squeeze Tennis balls, I had left the "Tennis" out but it read bad.... for OLH, it was a poorly crafted sentence, that, in its double meaning; (double entendre ) was to riskay (risque`) for this polite conversation.
John, are you a chef, or are you a cutter and paster? Because either way, that's definitely dinner for me! Let's all meet in the middle as 'ominvores'.
No cut and paste here, My grill and table.
I've been called a lot of things but Chef wouldn't be one of them..... ;)
We started doing "taco Tuesday" a while back. Various meats and such, I do a lot with Venado.
Lori Milas wrote: Does anyone have a thought on hangboarding?
You'll need to become a glamp-bagger to get these exercises.
5th wheel hitch in the front has a little lip on it, perfect height to crimp, extend you legs out, hang an pullup until tired. Similar to Rgolds stair vertical upside down plank, but not as strenuous.
The ladder on the RV to the roof, is pretty skinny but it is vertical, step up, grab a rail, then do squats until tired. When you get stronger do one legged squats. Then place your toes on a rung and flex your heels to simulate smearing.
Picnic tables (if they are stable enough) make good practice for low mantles, approach the end of the picnic table, place both hands on it, then mantle. You have to be careful because some picnic tables are too light and you just end up tipping them. If the picnic table isn't getting it done you can use the tailgate on the pickup.
Now go around the side of the picnic table and use the bench for a step, step up, step down, reverse feet, do it over and over until tired.
Lori Milas wrote: Does anyone have a thought on hangboarding?
I'm encouraged that at the climbing gym I'm developing more endurance and strength. But my fingers are the first thing to go... even if I had the energy to keep climbing. Is there anything that will strengthen fingers and prevent pulley injuries? (I am REALLY liking that yoga seems to reverse the finger clutch by splaying fingers in various poses.)
And is finger strength even important outdoors on those 5.9+ routes?
Hang boarding is a great thing when you're trying to take your sport climbing from 5.12 to 5.13. It's not what you need right now. I'd go so far as to say you'd be risking injury for little-to-no real gain to your climbing at this point.
Hand and finger strength is KEY to moving up in the grades. But you're building it every time you climb. If you want to build a little more get one of these and start playing around with it in your idle time. Or get a squeeze ball as suggested above.
Lori Milas wrote: Does anyone have a thought on hangboarding?
I'm encouraged that at the climbing gym I'm developing more endurance and strength. But my fingers are the first thing to go... even if I had the energy to keep climbing. Is there anything that will strengthen fingers and prevent pulley injuries? (I am REALLY liking that yoga seems to reverse the finger clutch by splaying fingers in various poses.)
And is finger strength even important outdoors on those 5.9+ routes?
Bouldering at the Gym is the best place to start.
Don't restrict yourself to the problems as "set" but dial in on holds that are the right size to build finger power for your current strength.
In a big gym like PW you can get the training you need.
Fundamentally, fitness-wise, finger strength in proportion to weight is 95% of this sport. All the rest, core/cardio/pull-ups and push-ups is just gravy.
rgold
·
Jul 25, 2018
·
Poughkeepsie, NY
· Joined Feb 2008
· Points: 526
Your hands are always going to be the first thing to go, unless you are doing strenuous off-width, which presents intense full-body anaerobic challenges.
Somewhat conventional wisdom suggests 1--2 years of climbing before any hangboarding, but since you have a climbing coach his/her advice would probably be the best.
Hangboarding, properly managed, has the tremendous advantage of being infinitely adjustable---you can apply exactly the appropriate amount of stress and modify it in small increments. But this is only if you set up an effective counterweight system that allows you to train at less than body weight. If you can't arrange that I would not use a hangboard. (There are other methods of working at less than body weight by using something for your feet, usually adopting some level of overhanging position. But for fine adjustability and repeatability, the counterweight system is still the best.)
The internet is full of hangboard training routines and advice. My guess is that most of it isn't going to work for older climbers in general and even more so older beginners. You won't be able to accomplish the volume of work recommended and the rest periods may prove to be too short. You'll either need advice from a coach who understands something about aging athletes, or else (like most of us) figure things out for yourself, using some on-line routine that appeals as a guideline, but feeling utterly free to modify it down to what your body can reasonably take. My suggestion is to work at a level that isn't too taxing, and especially keep away from going to total failure until you've accumulated a lot of experience with the process.
Something to be careful about is your shoulders---hanging can be very damaging, especially if you aren't all that strong to begin with (which is very likely given your starting age and previous athletic experience). I'm no kind of physical training expert, but I'd say your shoulders are in danger if you trying hanging with full bodyweight and you can't do at least a pullup or two. Presumably, you'd be using counterweights for a while so this needn't be an immediate issue. The trick is to shrug your shoulders down so that you aren't hanging totally on the bone, ligament, and tendon structures. There will be many people in the gym who can show you how to do this.
A second thing that may plague your hangboarding efforts is your skin. As you get older, it becomes a lot less resilient, and it needs more time to recover. I think wooden hang boards are easier on aging hands then any of the textured resin boards. I also think that the majority of holds on most boards, wood or resin, will be ones you'll never use. Their are a few boards that consist of just a few horizontal edges of various sizes. I don't think you will ever need any more than that.
Lori Milas wrote: Does anyone have a thought on hangboarding?
I'm encouraged that at the climbing gym I'm developing more endurance and strength. But my fingers are the first thing to go... even if I had the energy to keep climbing. Is there anything that will strengthen fingers and prevent pulley injuries? (I am REALLY liking that yoga seems to reverse the finger clutch by splaying fingers in various poses.)
And is finger strength even important outdoors on those 5.9+ routes?
Lori, Metolius Rock Rings are pretty cool. I hang mine from my chin up bar that hangs off a door frame. There's a workout they come with that's an interval workout. I use an interval timer on my phone that actually speaks the same of the workout, then counts down the time period for the exercise, then says 'rest'. So like "15 second hang on the three finger pocket" (they it starts counting down) then it says "rest" (then counts down for ten seconds etc). You just create a simple text file with the name of the exercise, the value for the time period, then the word 'rest', then the time period for resting etc. It uses the navigation voice thingy on my phone, which currently is a rather posh English lady. The great thing (I think) is that you can of course use it to speak any command. I had GREAT fun getting it to say "Get the f*%k up there and do pull ups using jugs", "5 f*&king pull ups on the jugs" etc. It's SO hilarious to hear this English lady speak those commands. Problem is I'm giggling all the way through doing the workout :-) The app is called Flexible Interval Timer.
Note that with my setup I also hang my gymnastic rings (which are of course adjustable) so I can do a range of exercises with them. Normally I do just the support position and rows, dips and pushups on the rings. Another great exercise I like to do on the chin up bar is hang from the bar, bring my knees to my chest, then, stretch a leg out and touch a Christmas tree bauble hanging from the ceiling, then bring than leg (knee) back to my chest then extend the other to touch the bauble, and keep doing that. This works the core really well. I take the rings with my when I go the Grampians, they are really easy to hang off a tree (or whatever).
BTW, today I'm back down to 63.2 kilos and 12.1% body fat after being a bit of a fatty over winter. I've lost two kilos in three days, just by reducing what I have for tea (dinner). Last night I ate only kale and Brussels sprouts :-) Getting ready for Spring which is like a month away so I want to be fit and lean!
I think many of them aren’t versatile enough. I have supplemented mine. I also use some grip strength training devices that can attach directly to weight machines at the gym and thus you can train holds too poor to do a dead hang on... At work now, but will have post some pics later. I do think they help at all grades when used properly.
Harumpfster Boondoggle wrote: Bouldering at the Gym is the best place to start.
Don't restrict yourself to the problems as "set" but dial in on holds that are the right size to build finger power for your current strength.
In a big gym like PW you can get the training you need.
Fundamentally, fitness-wise, finger strength in proportion to weight is 95% of this sport. All the rest, core/cardio/pull-ups and push-ups is just gravy.
So many fun and colorful ways to f$&# up your fingers! 5 minutes traversing these walls and I’m done.
Squeeze Tennis balls, I had left the "Tennis" out but it read bad.... for OLH, it was a poorly crafted sentence, that, in its double meaning; (double entendre ) was to riskay (risque`) for this polite conversation.
Lori, what he shows here, has an important part to it - the stretchy bits you would use to open your hand, with resistance. Talk to your coach/trainer, but there's good advice in here.
rgold wrote: Your hands are always going to be the first thing to go, unless you are doing strenuous off-width, which presents intense full-body anaerobic challenges.
Somewhat conventional wisdom suggests 1--2 years of climbing before any hangboarding, but since you have a climbing coach his/her advice would probably be the best.
Hangboarding, properly managed, has the tremendous advantage of being infinitely adjustable---you can apply exactly the appropriate amount of stress and modify it in small increments. But this is only if you set up an effective counterweight system that allows you to train at less than body weight. If you can't arrange that I would not use a hangboard. (There are other methods of working at less than body weight by using something for your feet, usually adopting some level of overhanging position. But for fine adjustability and repeatability, the counterweight system is still the best.)
The internet is full of hangboard training routines and advice. My guess is that most of it isn't going to work for older climbers in general and even more so older beginners. You won't be able to accomplish the volume of work recommended and the rest periods may prove to be too short. You'll either need advice from a coach who understands something about aging athletes, or else (like most of us) figure things out for yourself, using some on-line routine that appeals as a guideline, but feeling utterly free to modify it down to what your body can reasonably take. My suggestion is to work at a level that isn't too taxing, and especially keep away from going to total failure until you've accumulated a lot of experience with the process.
Something to be careful about is your shoulders---hanging can be very damaging, especially if you aren't all that strong to begin with (which is very likely given your starting age and previous athletic experience). I'm no kind of physical training expert, but I'd say your shoulders are in danger if you trying hanging with full bodyweight and you can't do at least a pullup or two. Presumably, you'd be using counterweights for a while so this needn't be an immediate issue. The trick is to shrug your shoulders down so that you aren't hanging totally on the bone, ligament, and tendon structures. There will be many people in the gym who can show you how to do this.
A second thing that may plague your hangboarding efforts is your skin. As you get older, it becomes a lot less resilient, and it needs more time to recover. I think wooden hang boards are easier on aging hands then any of the textured resin boards. I also think that the majority of holds on most boards, wood or resin, will be ones you'll never use. Their are a few boards that consist of just a few horizontal edges of various sizes. I don't think you will ever need any more than that.
You just gotta rub it in! Aging and weight ...
Having said that, Rgold...thank you. I’m all for caution and respecting my age and relative newness to climbing. My coach (weekly session with Ryan) has also asked me to take it slow and allow time for tendons to strengthen. You guys are spot on with your advice. This gets confusing. Today he threw me on a very strenuous wall....and then another and another. I was soaked through with sweat and my arms couldn’t move. Then he said, let’s go for something harder. This is the same guy who has counseled patience and structure and technique. So is it wheelchair time or are we relatively good to go awhile longer? Something I’ll bet everyone has dealt with here but I totally didn’t see coming...I’ve put on weight and bulked up—a lot. This isn’t my idea of flattering, at a time when I’d like to feel it... but maybe it just happens with this kind of work. I’m betting I could gain a grade easily if I lost ten pounds.
Lori, Metolius Rock Rings are pretty cool. I hang mine from my chin up bar that hangs off a door frame. There's a workout they come with that's an interval workout. I use an interval timer on my phone that actually speaks the same of the workout, then counts down the time period for the exercise, then says 'rest'. So like "15 second hang on the three finger pocket" (they it starts counting down) then it says "rest" (then counts down for ten seconds etc). You just create a simple text file with the name of the exercise, the value for the time period, then the word 'rest', then the time period for resting etc. It uses the navigation voice thingy on my phone, which currently is a rather posh English lady. The great thing (I think) is that you can of course use it to speak any command. I had GREAT fun getting it to say "Get the f*%k up there and do pull ups using jugs", "5 f*&king pull ups on the jugs" etc. It's SO hilarious to hear this English lady speak those commands. Problem is I'm giggling all the way through doing the workout :-) The app is called Flexible Interval Timer.
Note that with my setup I also hang my gymnastic rings (which are of course adjustable) so I can do a range of exercises with them. Normally I do just the support position and rows, dips and pushups on the rings. Another great exercise I like to do on the chin up bar is hang from the bar, bring my knees to my chest, then, stretch a leg out and touch a Christmas tree bauble hanging from the ceiling, then bring than leg (knee) back to my chest then extend the other to touch the bauble, and keep doing that. This works the core really well. I take the rings with my when I go the Grampians, they are really easy to hang off a tree (or whatever).
BTW, today I'm back down to 63.2 kilos and 12.1% body fat after being a bit of a fatty over winter. I've lost two kilos in three days, just by reducing what I have for tea (dinner). Last night I ate only kale and Brussels sprouts :-) Getting ready for Spring which is like a month away so I want to be fit and lean!
Carl
Carl, you’ve eaten too many kidney beans! Oh my... this is crazy! But then you’ve been over the top from the get-go.
Thanks for the suggestions.
Speaking of resting...how much do you rest while climbing? I’m focusing a lot on remembering to rest before or after a crux, or whenever there’s a safe moment to catch a breath on the wall. It has helped a lot to be encouraged to rest on a wall or hang until revived...otherwise I’d be self conscious about putting someone out. I call good rests “little naps”. I’m taking them more and more these days.
And speaking of hands...taping seems to offer some support.
Lori, this video is well worth watching. The rests are actually slightly cut, but very much there. It's much better than the polished up vids that ax all that out, IMO!
...Speaking of resting...how much do you rest while climbing? ...
TBH when I climb it depends if I'm working endurance or wanting to send a route. If I'm working endurance I consciously try not to rest at all. Otherwise I try and look for the natural rests. Lori there is a really good interview with Adam Ondra on the rhythm of climbing, looking for the rests, deciding where to climb quickly and where to stop, etc. He approaches a route as if it's several boulder problems. However, he also talks of ensuring that you use the rest correctly. That is, it's not just about stopping, it's about actually resting.
As a climber of a certain age & ilk suffering is a big part of exercise.if the gains are worth the effort, the pain comes as a package deal. You have to learn 'listen' to your body. learn to know how hard to pull, but not so much that all the force is transferred to your digits. Finding a balance between strong foot work, the base & strong fingers(The given Talent, if you will) is what will help you overcome. Do not over train on plastic. I know that all here adhere to a strong plastic pulling practice, but the gains made in the gym come with increased risk of overuse, strain & injury. (Something Nietzsche said - “That which does not kill us, makes us stronger.” )
Suburban Roadside wrote: As a climber of a certain age & ilk suffering is a big part of exercise.if the gains are worth the effort, the pain comes as a package deal. You have to learn 'listen' to your body. learn to know how hard to pull, but not so much that all the force is transferred to your digits. Finding a balance between strong foot work, the base & strong fingers(The given Talent, if you will) is what will help you overcome. Do not over train on plastic. I know that all here adhere to a strong plastic pulling practice, but the gains made in the gym come with increased risk of overuse, strain & injury. (Something Nietzsche said - “That which does not kill us, makes us stronger.” )
Well said Michael......
I would however submit that Friedrich Nietzsche was not a climber nor did he ride dirt bikes....... ;)
"That which does not kill you, makes you walk with a limp" John Barritt
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