Climbing riddle

Seth Cohen wrote: Dammit guys.

Did you actually expect a different result?

ViperScale . wrote:

I know alot of you are just putting joke post but am I the only one who has done a 40m rappel on a single 60m rope? 

Also how are you cutting the rope? Rubbing it on a rock cause noone I know climbs with a knife.

I don’t know anyone that dosent climb with a small knife in there chalkbag or like razor blade with the edge taped just tucked away under their helmet ....... always be the guy with the knife...

I like the answer from username Heavy on the J.

ViperScale . wrote:

Also how are you cutting the rope? Rubbing it on a rock cause noone I know climbs with a knife.

Seth Cohen wrote:You also have a backpack with things that a normal climber might bring with them: a bunch of gear (though not enough to string together to get any meaningful extra length out of a rope), a water bottle, a knife, some matches...stuff like that.

Reading comprehension 101.

Also, I climb (and do nearly everything else) with a knife. I mainly use it for cutting apples and 1 inch webbing for new anchors, but I usually carry one with a built-in marlin spike, which is extremely helpful for untying weighted knots in small cords. See: Spyderco Tusk.

A modified, Reepschnur Rappel ?
by addition of slings/CUT ROPE(?)
ALL to ACHIEVE THE LOWER ANCHOR

In a past thread - Reepschnur rap?

 


Cool,  .  .  .

Justin Veenhuis ·Wrote;
Tie a stopper knot 3ft from the end of the rope before you thread it through the 1st anchors. Tie your pack and water bottle to that extra 3ft. Rap the single side of the rope, opposite the pack. When you take your weight off of the rope, your pack weight and gear should pull the rope down to you at the next anchors?

 Viper get a Knife!

Tie a stopper knot 3ft from the end of the rope before you thread it through the 1st anchors. Tie your pack and water bottle to that extra 3ft. Rap the single side of the rope, opposite the pack. When you take your weight off of the rope, your pack weight and gear should pull the rope down to you at the next anchors? 

Eli Boardman wrote: I like the answer from username Heavy on the J.

Reading comprehension 101.

Also, I climb (and do nearly everything else) with a knife. I mainly use it for cutting apples and 1 inch webbing for new anchors, but I usually carry one with a built-in marlin spike, which is extremely helpful for untying weighted knots in small cords. See: Spyderco Tusk.

Ok you win.

But back to pointless cutting the rope I went and pulled specs from a bunch of random ropes.

Dynamic Elongation
26.4
35.3
29.4
36.1
30.8
31.9
31.6
31.1
33.4

Anything with 30+ you can do a 40m rappel and reach the next anchor (maybe with having to put biners on the safety knot at the end and getting off rappel and getting a few extra ft with a sling). Anything 33+ you can touch the next anchor without going off rappel even with safety knot at the end. So really out of all these samples only 1 of the ropes would maybe have trouble doing a 40m rappel.

Justin Veenhuis wrote: Tie a stopper knot 3ft from the end of the rope before you thread it through the 1st anchors. Tie your pack and water bottle to that extra 3ft. Rap the single side of the rope, opposite the pack. When you take your weight off of the rope, your pack weight and gear should pull the rope down to you at the next anchors? 

That's interesting. Haven't heard that one. Though by the time your pack gets to you, it's gonna be falling pretty fast to catch. Better not miss it.

John Wilder wrote: 

Static elongation is what you'd want to look at, not dynamic.

Some ropes are cut longer than others- Sterling often cuts their 60s to almost 64-65m. Edelrid usually cuts to 60m exactly. Just depends on the brand.

I imagine for the purposes of this riddle, we should assume the rope is exactly 60m. 30m with stretch isn't going to get you an extra 10m in any world.

No if you do a full rappel on a rope all the bouncing as you are going down is not static. Static is how much the rope stretches if you tie the weight to the end of the rope after it is fully hanging, no momentum at all.

Heck all you have to do when you get to the safety knot at the end is do some bouncing on the rope even if you don't get your full 30% stretch on the way down and it will get there. Extended rappel and your arm reach give you have 1m of reach past the end of the rope.

John Wilder wrote: Dynamic elongation is when they drop an 80kg mass off a tower and measure rope stretch. You're not even remotely approaching those numbers when you rappel. Especially considering you're on two ropes, not one.
For the purposes of rappelling, static elongation is a much better measurement. Again, your personal 60m is likely longer than 60m. I've done plenty of rappelling, and you are not getting 30% of your ropes length while bouncing on a rope. Not even close. Maybe 10% if you're really lucky.

Can't say for sure because I have done it with an old edelrid and blue water rope, and the current rope I have is a sterling which given the long rappels does seem to get to the anchors much easier so maybe it was cut longer than 60m considering that one only has 26% elongation and still can make a 130ft rappel.

Marc801 C wrote: You're doing it wrong. You should be walking backwards down the cliff, not "bouncing".

Only if it is slab. Most rappels involve bulges / overhangs and even if they aren't I tend to rappel by more of a hopping method and letting lots of slack out to drop down 10-15ft or so per "bounce". Guess that makes sense though if you are only getting static elongation during rappel because when I am rappelling I am kinda taking multi freefall drops as I go down which causes alot of stretch in the rope.

ViperScale . wrote:

No if you do a full rappel on a rope all the bouncing as you are going down is not static. Static is how much the rope stretches if you tie the weight to the end of the rope after it is fully hanging, no momentum at all.

You're doing it wrong. You should be walking backwards down the cliff, not "bouncing".

Justin Veenhuis wrote: Tie a stopper knot 3ft from the end of the rope before you thread it through the 1st anchors. Tie your pack and water bottle to that extra 3ft. Rap the single side of the rope, opposite the pack. When you take your weight off of the rope, your pack weight and gear should pull the rope down to you at the next anchors? 

Had the same idea.

ViperScale . wrote:

I know alot of you are just putting joke post but am I the only one who has done a 40m rappel on a single 60m rope? 

Also how are you cutting the rope? Rubbing it on a rock cause noone I know climbs with a knife.

Hit the rope with a rock while it is lying on a rock surface

Beal escaper
Done!
But sounds like one hell of a climb you've described!

Nate Tastic wrote: Are you alone or with a partner? 

For the method I have in mind (which someone posted a while ago), you can do it with any number of people (or, at least, the max number that could hang at an anchor).

ViperScale . wrote:

I know alot of you are just putting joke post but am I the only one who has done a 40m rappel on a single 60m rope? 

Also how are you cutting the rope? Rubbing it on a rock cause noone I know climbs with a knife.

The accessory chord on your chalk bag will work fine. Just saw it in half. 

Or burn it in half with a lighter. 

Or use, get this, a knife.

Lots of ways.

Briggs Lazalde wrote: Wish I had a knife at the top of the climb yesterday... 3 pitches up went to rap and my locker for my personal anchor was stuck. Cut my PAS off, since it was girth hitched to my harness, with a sharp rock which was luckily right there. 

If it's just a screwgate, try spitting on it. Loosens up dirt in the thing. 

And thanks for the reminder to get a knife, a small crescent wrench, and a couple other dinky odds and ends to live on the harness or in the pack.

Best, OLH

The weighted backpack trick sounds neat for single pitch emergencies, but he says it's an 80m rap on a 60m rope, with another rap station at the midpoint. Are you sure you'll catch that backpack on its way down at the midpoint, or will you lose it entirely as it flies by you. More likely, it will just hit you in the face after falling 40 meters.

ViperScale . wrote:

I know alot of you are just putting joke post but am I the only one who has done a 40m rappel on a single 60m rope? 

Also how are you cutting the rope? Rubbing it on a rock cause noone I know climbs with a knife.

A knife was among the op's list of inventory. 

ViperScale . wrote: Rappel down like normal, rope stretch should be enough to reach the next anchor and ground. 60m -> 30x30m when setup to rappel -> 30% stretch gives 9m -> so 1m short of the 40m middle anchor but should be reachable.

At worst you put some biners at the bottom of the rappel rope and do some reaching from there to reach it.

yes but if you double up the strands for a rap wouldn't that reduce rope stretch by a factor of two? like since you're essentially putting an elastic in parallel then it takes twice the amount of force for the same stretch.

Forrset Pials wrote:

yes but if you double up the strands for a rap wouldn't that reduce rope stretch by a factor of two? like since you're essentially putting an elastic in parallel then it takes twice the amount of force for the same stretch.

And static elongation can't exceed 10%, so you'll get a maximum stretch of 3 meters on your doubled strand. Less, since you're forced to rap both ends if you plan on retrieving the rope (OP says we don't have anything to extend with, so no biner blocks allowed). So you're still at least 7 meters from the mid station.

Unless the OP has a brilliant solution that is practical in this contrived situation, I'm using the secret walk off that he forgot about.

Slartibartfast wrote:Unless the OP has a brilliant solution that is practical in this contrived situation, I'm using the secret walk off that he forgot about.

"Heavy on the J" posted the solution I was thinking of on page 1. I know the situation is a bit contrived, but it's supposed to be a fun thought-provoking riddle, not necessarily a real-life situation. And I think the solution is pretty practical, kind of cool, and not that crazy!