New and Experienced Climbers over 50

Lori Milas wrote:

Michael... Read this thread by Rgold... printed it out, and will be taking it to my therapist.  This may require some weeks of soothing and calming.     A year and a half out there, and I could not check off ONE of the items on this list.  How do I even start?  Where would I begin?  I want to be a decent partner...  
Looking for Epsom salts for the brain.  :-(   

  Does your therapist climb?   

How to start/begin?  Start leading now.   Lots of routes that are truly easy for you, indoors and especially outdoors.  Take intentional leader falls indoors on safe routes.  Repeat 100 times...

Lori Milas wrote:

Michael... Read this thread by Rgold... printed it out, and will be taking it to my therapist.  This may require some weeks of soothing and calming.     A year and a half out there, and I could not check off ONE of the items on this list.  How do I even start?  Where would I begin?  I want to be a decent partner...  
Looking for Epsom salts for the brain.  :-(   

LOL. I wouldn't lose too much sleep over that list. It reads more like the checklist to launch the new SpaceX rocket.

1. Be positive

2. Pull your own weight (carry gear, clean up, bring snacks and water...)

3. Don't complain about hardship. Hardship is part of climbing.

4. Always be open to learning and continuous improvement, no matter what your ability level.

5. Be coachable. 

Sometimes finding a partner is a no go! So the next best thing is lead rope soloing, second best is TR solo off a fixed line from the top with some Mini Traxion's

Señor Arroz wrote:

LOL. I wouldn't lose too much sleep over that list. It reads more like the checklist to launch the new SpaceX rocket.

1. Be positive

2. Pull your own weight (carry gear, clean up, bring snacks and water...)

3. Don't complain about hardship. Hardship is part of climbing.

4. Always be open to learning and continuous improvement, no matter what your ability level.

5. Be coachable. 

This I can do!  Check, check, check! Thank you!

Really the best thing to do is find a good mentor!

Jeff constine wrote: Really the best thing to do is find a good mentor!

Peter Hays! Mentor King! R.I.P He got me to ruck up and climb EL Cap!

Thanks Jeff. Would love to have been there to see that!  Seems the universe brings what you need when you need it so I’m sure when I’m ready a great mentor will appear.  I feel blessed all the time, and especially in climbing. You all are just such incredibly giving and talented people. I got lucky.   

Lori, so sorry to burden your therapy sessions.   I obviously have a point of view not shared by everyone, and the thread following that post will provide you with plenty of contrary viewpoints.  I don't think you or anyone is well-served by a few platitudes, but that's up to you to think about.

If my list is truly as foreign as you say, then you might want to have a conversation with your guide/mentor about what they think you ought to know to be a competent, safe, reliable second on multipitch climbs, one who pulls their weight and doesn't leave everything up to the leader, one who will not slow down the party to a crawl for a host of reasons, and one who might even be able to deal with some possible mishaps.  When you head out with someone who isn't a paid professional, there is a lot more shared responsibility, and that means being in reasonable control of quite a few details.  You can paper those details over with a few emoji's and hope for the best, but those details will be demanding attention sooner or later, so is there really something wrong with a bit of advanced warning?

By all means start doing things yourself more, but there are limits to reinventing the wheel.  There is nothing in my list that will impede your progress, a whole lot that will make you faster, safer, and more reliable, and, naysayers notwithstanding, it ain't any kind of rocket science.  There are also all kinds of alternatives; naturally, I suggested things experienced and competent people disagree with. I suggest evaluating what they say and then drawing your own conclusions, as there isn't One Right Way.

On a personal note, Em Cos suggested that list is a good way to get a second date with me.  Ha! Touché!  But nothing could be farther from the truth.  Based on the the various "I'd never climb with you because..." comments I've seen, I'm far more tolerant than many posters out there.  I'm easy.  I like to climb and enjoy doing it with all kinds of people.  I climb with folks who have been at it for years and don't manage most of the items I listed (but I also know not to get on things that are long and/or remote with them).  So no need to schedule extra therapy sessions, the list or some other version of it you find appropriate can be attacked piecemeal over time.  Just remember that there is a lot more to multipitch trad climbing, even from the perspective of someone who isn't yet leading, than just pulling the moves.

rgold wrote: Lori, so sorry to burden your therapy sessions.   I obviously have a point of view not shared by everyone, and the thread following that post will provide you with plenty of contrary viewpoints.  I don't think you or anyone is well-served by a few platitudes, but that's up to you to think about.

If my list is truly as foreign as you say, then you might want to have a conversation with your guide/mentor about what they think you ought to know to be a competent, safe, reliable second on multipitch climbs, one who pulls their weight and doesn't leave everything up to the leader, one who will not slow down the party to a crawl for a host of reasons, and one who might even be able to deal with some possible mishaps.  When you head out with someone who isn't a paid professional, there is a lot more shared responsibility, and that means being in reasonable control of quite a few details.  You can paper those details over with a few emoji's and hope for the best, but those details will be demanding attention sooner or later, so is there really something wrong with a bit of advanced warning?

By all means start doing things yourself more, but there are limits to reinventing the wheel.  There is nothing in my list that will impede your progress, a whole lot that will make you faster, safer, and more reliable, and, naysayers notwithstanding, it ain't any kind of rocket science.  There are also all kinds of alternatives; naturally, I suggested things experienced and competent people disagree with. I suggest evaluating what they say and then drawing your own conclusions, as there isn't One Right Way.

On a personal note, Em Cos suggested that list is a good way to get a second date with me.  Ha! Touché!  But nothing could be farther from the truth.  Based on the the various "I'd never climb with you because..." comments I've seen, I'm far more tolerant than many posters out there.  I'm easy.  I like to climb and enjoy doing it with all kinds of people.  I climb with folks who have been at it for years and don't manage most of the items I listed (but I also know not to get on things that are long and/or remote with them).  So no need to schedule extra therapy sessions, the list or some other version of it you find appropriate can be attacked piecemeal over time.  Just remember that there is a lot more to multipitch trad climbing, even from the perspective of someone who isn't yet leading, than just pulling the moves.

Rgold... I hope my joshing didn't come off wrong.  It is/was a beautiful list!  And no, I didn't really take it to my therapist... but I DID print it off today and take it to my climbing coach, Ryan--just happened to have my session today at noon.  "What are we going to do about this list?" was my question.  He laughed and said... "Great list. Let's get started".  And, now that he knows me better, he knows I get ahead of myself and said  "Just climb, Lori. Be patient with yourself. This will all come with time."  I asked him to explain the items, and begin to teach me. And Nelson will do same outdoors.

What I can offer right now is willingness, kindness, and a good heart--which only goes so far when climbing with others. I have heard the word "tenacity" said quite a bit about me lately... I just keep trying and I'm a good sport.  But I'm still trying to understand where feet and hands go--how to climb single pitches, before I attempt to support another.  I'm trusting there will be a path from novice to a competent partner.  (Well... you all must have done likewise once!)
So far, I've had the luxury of being selfish. I haven't had to be a partner, and haven't known how to.  I am so wanting to learn!  I am perhaps a little timid because I know someone else's life is in my hands... I don't take that lightly.  One step at a time... but thanks for the list. Obviously written by someone who knows...  

rgold wrote: Lori, so sorry to burden your therapy sessions.   I obviously have a point of view not shared by everyone, and the thread following that post will provide you with plenty of contrary viewpoints.  I don't think you or anyone is well-served by a few platitudes, but that's up to you to think about.

Rgold, I just want to chime in here and clarify that I think your list is a terrific manual for a lot of things a beginning climber should aspire to learn and know over time. But it's not really what its title says. If a 2nd needs to be able to properly assess anchors just to use one example, before getting asked back a 2nd time, well, I think that's going to rule out most 2nd time trad climbers. My goal in simplifying is really that so much information presented as a requirement just sets an unrealistic bar. At least for getting asked back a 2nd time with me. 

Point taken Senor.  The title was a bald-faced attempt at grabbing eyeballs, to the great disappointment of the dating crowd.  And as I said, I don't use that list as any kind of filter for my own partners.

If I really knew a good way to get asked out on a second date, I'd be a whole lot wealthier than I am.

Rgold, that's an excellent list.  Thanks for taking the time to post it.  spells it out just right !

rgold wrote: 
If I really knew a good way to get asked out on a second date, I'd be a whole lot wealthier than I am.

Make shorter lists!   

I'll leave that to you.

I'm just curious if anyone has taken the time to video or photograph themselves climbing for learning purposes?  My climbing coach at the gym has often mentioned that it would be really helpful if I video myself climbing both indoors and out, but honestly, when there's just two of us I haven't figured out how to do that.

I have learned a great deal from looking at incidental shots of me climbing last year... where I could see awkward and unbalanced positions, engaged arms, overgripping, etc.  

So I'm not sure how to video a climb without a third person available.  Maybe a tripod and just aim it 'up' the route and hope for the best?  

Just climb, "rookie mistakes" and "bad form" self correct. At any age.....no video required...... ;)

John Barritt wrote: Just climb, "rookie mistakes" and "bad form" self correct. At any age.....no video required...... ;)

That’s a relief!!!

John Barritt wrote: Just climb, "rookie mistakes" and "bad form" self correct. 

I'm sure dancers 'just dance' and all their technical mistakes disappear.

And gymnasts 'just perform' with never a need to improve their technique.

Lori, if you want to film yourself climbing, just prop up your iPhone on anything handy and hit record.
If it helps your climbing, continue.
If you want to 'just climb', then do that.

One of the best climbers I know videos his climbs.
Learns a lot from analyzing subtleties.
Too much hassle for me to imitate, so far.

Lori Milas wrote: I'm just curious if anyone has taken the time to video or photograph themselves climbing for learning purposes?  My climbing coach at the gym has often mentioned that it would be really helpful if I video myself climbing both indoors and out, but honestly, when there's just two of us I haven't figured out how to do that.

I have learned a great deal from looking at incidental shots of me climbing last year... where I could see awkward and unbalanced positions, engaged arms, overgripping, etc.  

So I'm not sure how to video a climb without a third person available.  Maybe a tripod and just aim it 'up' the route and hope for the best?  

I have a friend who is an AMAZING climber who does just what your coach suggests. Mostly that's at the gym, though, where he can set up the shot and get the angles right. He uses his iPhone and one of those gorilla tripods that you can wrap around poles, etc. It has really helped him progress.

I can't bring myself to watch videos of myself climbing. Just too cringy.

Señor Arroz wrote:

I can't bring myself to watch videos of myself climbing. Just too cringy.

I know what you mean. My husband used to suggest that I watch a video of myself teleing. But the stills were bad enough.

I think that, to some extent at least, paying attention to how you feel (graceful? balanced? thrutchy?) will tell you a lot about whether you're doing it right.

Thank you so much for your responses. I’ll think this over.
My climbing coach talks about efficiency and economy in climbing—sort of less is more, especially when one is frustratingly short on brut strength. So it’s here where it would be nice to view what works and what fails. Still learning that a delicate touch will do the job just as well sometimes.
And then there’s just being stupid. How often do I overthink or get overwhelmed looking for the next hold only to have the belayer shout “Look in front of you!”  No amount of photography can fix that.