Rappelling: Have I Been Doing it Wrong?

Not me, from google.

Matt Zia wrote: I've never rappelled with the brake strand coming towards my body. While doing so likely won't kill you, it puts the body in a disadvantageous position for maximum control of the brake strand.

In this picture the rappeller's left hand is cocked at an uncomfortable angle and their left arm is in a flexed position. Better to have the rope coming out away from the body so that both hands can sit neutrally and both arms are relaxed.

Also, I hadn't thought of this before, but my guess is that having the brake strands oriented towards the body will make getting hair, shirts, etc caught in the rappel device more likely. As the rappel device slides along the rope, the brake strands "suck" into the device (even though the rope itself isn't actually moving), so it seems to me that having the brake strands towards your body just makes getting something stuck in the device more likely. Again, probably won't kill you, but ask the guy who I saw get his beard stuck how comfortable he was in that situation.

I've heard of people's hair getting sucked into the rappell device with painful consequences, including scalp loss. This photo scares me. First, the left hand is unable to do its job in keeping the body upright. Second, the rappeller looks to be a beginning mountaineer, judging by the position of the left hand. If this were a video instead of a photo, we would probably see the left hand get "Sucked" into the rappell device, when the rappeller gets scared, starts going over backwards, and tightens the left hand.

Chris Little wrote:

I've heard of people's hair getting sucked into the rappell device with painful consequences, including scalp loss. This photo scares me. First, the left hand is unable to do its job in keeping the body upright. Second, the rappeller looks to be a beginning mountaineer, judging by the position of the left hand. If this were a video instead of a photo, we would probably see the left hand get "Sucked" into the rappell device, when the rappeller gets scared, starts going over backwards, and tightens the left hand.

It is a video. I took a screen shot from it. Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hetZSbO3tTA

And here's the link for the dude in yellow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6OUGgYKK-w
Notice this guy says, "when setting up the rappel, I pass the rope through the belay device just as I would when belaying." Yet he does it backwards lol. He also attaches his prussik to his leg loop with a girth hitch and then wraps the rope and then attaches the other end to the carabiner. Seems like a mish-mash of techniques here that are just silly.

FourT6and2....Thanks for the additional photo explanations!  Your statement that :"And when people do wind up setting up their rappel (or belay) like one of those wrong ways, it inevitably winds up twisting when they do brake or apply weight to the system. And this happens. The device spins around, the rope above the device twists, the rope below the device twists, and the belay loop twists. "  probably explains why I sort of "never" saw a rap set up the way you had questioned as "wrong".  (Because, with the exception of the twists, it sort of "twist-defaults" to the more "normal way"...or pretty close.

My closing advice...."You have it correct"  The "hair-and-shirt etc. sucked in" can happen in any orientation, but seems more likely in the "wrong" orientation.

As for a rap device "failing" ....I don't believe I've ever heard of this happening and I have read every issue of the AAC's "Accidents in North American Mountaineering" since before there were Rap devices.  (Yes, even before there were "break bar" devices !....which sometimes failed when the biner across which the'd been put failed.)  And even if it did, your safety back up is there.

As for the Muntner Hitch....your should learn it for both rapping and belaying (as well as the "body rap" shown in a posted photo) because some day you'll have to belay and/or rap without a "device" and it sure beats calling for a rescue as was the case several years ago when a climber dropped his descending device from 100 ft up Pinnacle Gully in NH's Mt Washington.  However, it can put zillions of kinks in your rope. On the other hand, some people say it doesn't...so maybe there's a "trick" to using it to rap.  

Peter Foster wrote:

A belay device weighs about 80 grams. That's as heavy as MULTIPLE biners.

Rappel devices can fail from microfractures (you'd be surprised how readily a device can become microfractured from relatively low impacts)
And rope twisting is not an issue if you use the munter hitch properly!

Who told you that nonsense about microfractures?  I've been climbing 40 years and never seen or heard of a device breaking.  That microfracture thing is bullshit.  If you're that worried about microfractures you should stop climbing because all of your biners are suffering the same imagined fate as your belay device.

And there aren't many ways to use a munter.  It does twist the rope.  Just look at the path the rope takes.
My belay device doesn't weight that much since I use an ATC.  I'm perfectly capable of belaying with an assisted device.

Robert Hall wrote: 

As for the Muntner Hitch....your should learn it for both rapping and belaying (as well as the "body rap" shown in a posted photo) because some day you'll have to belay and/or rap without a "device" and it sure beats calling for a rescue as was the case several years ago when a climber dropped his descending device from 100 ft up Pinnacle Gully in NH's Mt Washington.  However, it can put zillions of kinks in your rope. On the other hand, some people say it doesn't...so maybe there's a "trick" to using it to rap.  

I agree you should know how to use a Munter just in case, but it's not something would do on a regular basis.  The real trick to using a Munter is don't use it.

I think another way to say what the OP is getting at is that you can set up tuber rap either right or left handed, and he's seeing people set up a  left-handed rap but actually rapping right handed.
Doesn't seem dangerous to me in the slightest, just going to introduce a twist as someone noted, and so sub-optimal. 

Microfractures, basic device use, and munters.  Wow.  Super riveting stuff here.  Next maybe we can start a thread titled "Did you know that dogth and beeth can thmell fear?"  

If you don't know how to get your hair unstuck using a sling as a friction hitch, or if you were going too fast on rappel to keep your hair from yanking your scalp off your head, you should find another pasttime.  You could likely give a chimp a tube-style belay device and it would use it correctly after a few tries.  Yet here we are, three pages later.

Here's the answer:  Yes, it's set up wrong with regard to best use.  Yes, it will still work.  You don't need to field opinions from a database of thousands of users.  It's in plenty of books and online sources.  

If you don't have the motivation or capacity to look up answers to simple questions, read a book, or do whatever you need to do in order to master fundamentals (and know that microfractures don't exist), give this shit up and find another way to get 100 likes on that sick instagram pic braj.  

For sure. someone should write a book with all that info in it, maybe revise it 8 times. It should be called "The Indepandence of the Mountains". It should also be affordable.

don'tchuffonme wrote: Microfractures, basic device use, and munters.  Wow.  Super riveting stuff here.  Next maybe we can start a thread titled "Did you know that dogth and beeth can thmell fear?"  

If you don't know how to get your hair unstuck using a sling as a friction hitch, or if you were going too fast on rappel to keep your hair from yanking your scalp off your head, you should find another pasttime.  You could likely give a chimp a tube-style belay device and it would use it correctly after a few tries.  Yet here we are, three pages later.

Here's the answer:  Yes, it's set up wrong with regard to best use.  Yes, it will still work.  You don't need to field opinions from a database of thousands of users.  It's in plenty of books and online sources.  

If you don't have the motivation or capacity to look up answers to simple questions, read a book, or do whatever you need to do in order to master fundamentals (and know that microfractures don't exist), give this shit up and find another way to get 100 likes on that sick instagram pic braj.  

Your triggeredness gives me microfractures. 

pfwein wrote: I think another way to say what the OP is getting at is that you can set up tuber rap either right or left handed, and he's seeing people set up a  left-handed rap but actually rapping right handed.
Doesn't seem dangerous to me in the slightest, just going to introduce a twist as someone noted, and so sub-optimal. 

Not at all. Backward is backward. Doesn't matter if you use your left hand or right hand to hold the brake. An ATC or other tubular device... they are all ambidextrous. Look. At. The. Photos. Can't get any more clear than that. The brake coming out facing your belly button has nothing to do with left handedness.

don'tchuffonme wrote: Microfractures, basic device use, and munters.  Wow.  Super riveting stuff here.  Next maybe we can start a thread titled "Did you know that dogth and beeth can thmell fear?"  

If you don't know how to get your hair unstuck using a sling as a friction hitch, or if you were going too fast on rappel to keep your hair from yanking your scalp off your head, you should find another pasttime.  You could likely give a chimp a tube-style belay device and it would use it correctly after a few tries.  Yet here we are, three pages later.

Here's the answer:  Yes, it's set up wrong with regard to best use.  Yes, it will still work.  You don't need to field opinions from a database of thousands of users.  It's in plenty of books and online sources.  

If you don't have the motivation or capacity to look up answers to simple questions, read a book, or do whatever you need to do in order to master fundamentals (and know that microfractures don't exist), give this shit up and find another way to get 100 likes on that sick instagram pic braj.  

My bad. I completely apologize for asking this question. In the beginner's section. Of a rock climbing forum. Where people are supposed to ask question and discuss this sort of thing. What was I thinking...

FourT6and2 ... wrote:

My bad. I completely apologize for asking this question. In the beginner's section. Of a rock climbing forum. Where people are supposed to ask question and discuss this sort of thing. What was I thinking...

Your question was legit. Ignore the detractors. 

I agee with FrankPS

FourT6and2 ... wrote:

Not at all. Backward is backward. Doesn't matter if you use your left hand or right hand to hold the brake. An ATC or other tubular device... they are all ambidextrous. Look. At. The. Photos. Can't get any more clear than that. The brake coming out facing your belly button has nothing to do with left handedness.

Yes, you are right, my bad.

 The chafing isn't worth it, and it wears through clothes quickly. Nobody does that except in complete emergency scenarios (or when you're hiking/rapping low angle terrain)

FourT6and2, how do you like the new Tool Album?

Kees van der Heiden wrote: What worries me more is the lack of a back up in these pictures.

I used to use a prussic as I thought "what if I suffer a stroke or hear attack, what if I get stung by a wasp, what if the rope gets stuck etc etc".  The I stopped using a prussic.  Last climbing trip I went back to it.  It was more of a hassle to be honest.  Once the rope was tangled and I just wrapped the rope about four times around my thigh.  I'm still in two minds about whether to use a prussic or not...