Carabiner wore out after one day of top rope?

Wiggle wrote: That's pretty normal wear, especially if there is any sand/grit in the rope.
Though I swear that the karabiners these days are made of softer metal and wear out faster than a decade or so ago. I have 2 Black Diamond HMS krabs, one is about five years old, and has a grove from only moderate use, while the other is nearly twenty years old, has had 3-4 times the use, and shows no sign of wear.
My bet is on 'planned obsolescence' and corporate driven production of climbing gear these days.

I would argue that it is due to the market demand for weight reduction.

John Clark wrote:

I would argue that it is due to the market demand for weight reduction.

Hello SIR! I posted your "Bullfrog" video, thnxs!

 I think both planned obsolescence, & marketing weight savings, have been used together to arrive at a profitable business model.   The modern disposable, super lite-weight gear,  just doesn't stand up to daily use at all.
 I have and use 40 year old SMC  ('Ds & ovals) and -older than dirt-  blind gate Bonnatti's 'D's. 30-5 year old, old school Coonyards with cracks at the pins in the gate , and now 20 year old,  Petzl Spirits, (46 of them)
 And  an odd assortment of others; not more than 10 wire gates, 2-3 bent gates.
 Ive watched as others have gone though three or four rounds of changing types to shave off Ozs, exchanging minimal savings for a loss of durability.

The real wtf here is that anyone buys petzl's terrible, sticky screwlockers to start with.  i have had to cut myself out of anchors and carry vice locks in my car due to them.

tldr:YGD.

Nick B wrote: The real wtf here is that anyone buys petzl's terrible, sticky screwlockers to start with.  i have had to cut myself out of anchors and carry vice locks in my car due to them.

tldr:YGD.

I think they had a recall on some Attache 3D a while back, found one of those in my friend's gear, had ice tools handy to lever the screw lock...

Just get some Edelrid bulletproof biners for the top rope, they provide the best of both worlds.

Get some stainless steal carabiners for top roping. If you use aluminum biners, the basket of the biner can wear quickly when lowering off.

Edelrid also makes a line of biners with the keyword "Bulletproof" in the name. They are aluminum but they have a stainless steel insert in the basket to eliminate/reduce wear. They are awesome biners, but a bit more expensive.

Russ Walling wrote:

To get accurate wear data, especially after one rad top rope sesh, a comparative scanning electron microscope would be your best bet

Cheers,
DMT

haha. It is not too far fetched.

 I can just imagine some gear junkies making spreadsheets to track all their gear wear

Wiggle wrote: That's pretty normal wear, especially if there is any sand/grit in the rope.
Though I swear that the karabiners these days are made of softer metal and wear out faster than a decade or so ago. I have 2 Black Diamond HMS krabs, one is about five years old, and has a grove from only moderate use, while the other is nearly twenty years old, has had 3-4 times the use, and shows no sign of wear.
My bet is on 'planned obsolescence' and corporate driven production of climbing gear these days.

Rope diameter buddy. Smaller diameter= higher pressure= Greater heat. The biners I rocked with my 11mm have lasted 7 years and going strong. On a 9.8 they start to go through biners pretty well. 

Alan Coon wrote:

Rope diameter buddy. Smaller diameter= higher pressure= Greater heat. The biners I rocked with my 11mm have lasted 7 years and going strong. On a 9.8 they start to go through biners pretty well. 

Yeah, not so sure. For the older biner, I used twins and a 9.8 (when everyone thought that was too thin to climb on), and then switched to another 9.8 and 10.2 with the new biner.

I vaguely recall the German Mountaineering Club (or similar) did some testing on biners or (open?) shuts that were worn out by 50%. They actually performed great in pull testing because the groove kept the load in line with the spine of the biner. That is really only safe for circular cross sections.

The main issue with I-beam biners is that when they do wear significantly, they end up with a couple of sharp edges on either side that could sever the cord. This type of rope failure has happened before.

Toproping is different than belaying in the amount of load continuously applied during use. Even rappelling theoretically will result in less wear because toproping doubles the load (climber + belayer vs only rappeller).

- Alex CV

Alex CV wrote: .... Even rappelling theoretically will result in less wear because toproping doubles the load (climber + belayer vs only rappeller).

- Alex CV

No, not theoretically, rapping does result in less wear because the rope isn't moving through the biner during a rap and is unweighted when pulled.

Ibeam style biners are junk wear out pdq also develop a very sharp edge.

Alex CV wrote: I vaguely recall the German Mountaineering Club (or similar) did some testing on biners or (open?) shuts that were worn out by 50%. They actually performed great in pull testing because the groove kept the load in line with the spine of the biner. That is really only safe for circular cross sections.

The main issue with I-beam biners is that when they do wear significantly, they end up with a couple of sharp edges on either side that could sever the cord. This type of rope failure has happened before.

Toproping is different than belaying in the amount of load continuously applied during use. Even rappelling theoretically will result in less wear because toproping doubles the load (climber + belayer vs only rappeller).

- Alex CV

Rappelling results in less wear because when you pull the rope it is unweighted.  

Rappelling wears out your biner quickly, especially with a gritty dirty rope. Above comment?

Rappelling wears your belay biner, lowering wears your top rope biner or chain.

Mike Brady wrote:

haha. It is not too far fetched.

 I can just imagine some gear junkies making spreadsheets to track all their gear wear

i definitely saw somebody post here saying they keep track of falls on their gear in a spreadsheet. they were even appalled that others don't do the same.

Dope Book for carbines, how some people spend their time..

Jeff constine wrote: Rappelling wears out your biner quickly, especially with a gritty dirty rope. Above comment?

Yes, rapping wears out your belay (or rap) biner, but at a much slower rate than the anchor biners are worn out from lowering.  As was stated above, when lowering, the weight on the anchor biners is higher since there is the weight of the climber on both sides of the rope (minus the loss due to friction through the biners of course).  With rapping, there is only the weight of the rappeller, and that weight is being supported by both strands of the rope, so there is less wear on each point where the rope contacts the biner, plus the wear is spread out over more surface area.

Chris Blatchley wrote:

i definitely saw somebody post here saying they keep track of falls on their gear in a spreadsheet. they were even appalled that others don't do the same.

I really want to read that thread......

Nick B wrote:

I really want to read that thread......

No....no you don't