Dacks Recommendation: Beginner overnight climbing

Hi friends,

I'm visiting the Dacks for the first time in early May, and could use some help narrowing it down to a single region.  My party would like to backpack 5-10 miles from a parking lot, make camp for 2 nights, and ideally do all three of (1) climbing, (2) mountain hiking, and (3) swimming while we're out there.  A few TR routes in the 5.6-5.8 range would be handy as not all of our party is ready to lead; and at least one entertaining 5.6 or 5.7 multipitch would be ideal.  And we're not talking Regular Route - 3 pitches with a good view at the top would be just fine.

Which region comes to mind, and does anyone have specific recommendations for a camp site that can accommodate 3 small tents?

I can't really answer your questions off the top of my head, but the current guidebook (s) is so good that a careful perusal should give you all the information that you are seeking. I will say, though, that early May is the start of black fly season up there, and most places that would meet your criteria are also likely to be well populated with the first hatches of those delightful creatures. Oh, I also would expect that the  swimming holes will likely be a bit on the chilly side in early May as well--even if they are not still iced over.

Avalanche Pass, maybe. But you'd have to check the book to see if there's any TR terrain there.  Another possibility would be Crane Mt, though the lake there is a bit of a hike from the climbing spots. Being in the So. ADKs the water would be a bit closer to tolerable temps in May.

The high peaks might not be done with the spring thaw in a month from now (especially not at the snails pace we're exiting winter this year).  Seep and standing water tends to stick around a bit during the thaw, even in the lower elevations.  Just something to watch the weather for (sudden long stretch of warmth in April will help).  And yes, the black flies could definitely be a factor unless it stays colder than normal, which hurts the thaw (catch 22).

Crane might not be a bad choice, there's camping 5 and 15 minutes (with some moderate elevation) along the climber's path.  No swimming holes where the climbing is though.

Good luck and/or Lost T might be viable options.  Black flies but there's a place to swim and the thaw should be done by then.

Thanks for the warnings, guys - I'm reading up on black flies now.  We're looking at the weekend of May 5.  Recipe for disaster, or might we just miss them?  Somewhere I just read, "Mother's Day to Father's Day", which makes me hopeful...

I like the look of Crane Mountain for the routes and the camping.  Weather Underground puts the weather in Thurman at 39-65 F then.  We'll probably back off of swimming in favor of "looking at water" in that case.

I don't think mud doesn't scares us too much.  There's no safety concern with the rock being fragile when wet in this area, right?

Bryan Eyers wrote:

Thanks for the warnings, guys - I'm reading up on black flies now.  We're looking at the weekend of May 5.  Recipe for disaster, or might we just miss them?  Somewhere I just read, "Mother's Day to Father's Day", which makes me hopeful...

I like the look of Crane Mountain for the routes and the camping.  Weather Underground puts the weather in Thurman at 39-65 F then.  We'll probably back off of swimming in favor of "looking at water" in that case.

I don't think mud doesn't scares us too much.  There's no safety concern with the rock being fragile when wet in this area, right?

I'd trust a witch in a swamp more than a weather forecast a month out. May is a weird month. A lot can happen in a month. Could be lots of snow still, or everything has dried and blackflies will strip a cow like piranas. Probably somewhere in between. 

The mud season advisory isn't so much about hiker safety, its about protecting the trails from degradation from excessive use. But its mostly a concern in the high peaks region, where the soil is thinner and trails are steeper and used more heavily. Crane area would be fine. Not sure how much toproping is actually there that suits your interests, but Jay might chime in and give some awesome advice.  

Rock is fine when it is wet from the rock's perspective, in the sense that it being wet doesn't mean it'll be damaging to climb in like sandstone in Utah. Lichen and moss gets really slippery though. Many Crane routes are more... Raw. Might be prone to seepage too. The drier, more naturally clean lines are harder traditional lines.

Basically, right now all the meaningful input comes down to "it depends" - weather over the next month and over your trip is the main thing. May is a harder month to plan trips for than late summer / early fall in this region

may 5th should be pre black fly.

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

may 5th should be pre black fly.

I would agree with this for the high peaks.  *Should* as very strange said - everything depends.

The southern and central ADKs are likely to start seeing them by early May, unless it stays cold or there's a few sub freezing nights around that time.

There's a few areas you can top rope at Crane.  Diagonal Ramp wall (on the Black Arches trail), upper measles, Belleview slabs.  A few smaller walls that IMO aren't really worth the stop.

If able to lead 5.6 or 5.7, there's top ropes at Isobuttress (left Black Arches).

Bella Vista (above the Belleview slabs area) has a multipitch climb I rather enjoy and know was recently cleaned.  I wouldn't recommend it as a first slab lead, but it's solid fun.  70m linked can make this 2 very long pitches.  There's a few sections on the top pitches that can seep, but they're easier climbing and there's options around them if necessary.

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/110923011/bella-vista-to-benediction-linkup

Black flies are miserable little bloodsucking bastards. I thought the time I'd spend in Montana and the Winds had prepared me for bad bugs, but Wind River mosquitos are no comparison to Adirondack black flies. I get welts the size of quarters that itch for 2 weeks. And the hurt when they bite, too. Do not underestimate them.

I'm planning a similar trip, but we'll be a week or two later. 

I'll reiterate the concern about mud/snow. And the water will be too cold to have much fun swimming.

The guidebook Adirondack Rock is invaluable for planning this kind of trip. It's more  encyclopedia than guidebook, and if there's some moss covered pile buried 8 miles in the woods that someone once thought might have a route on it, it's probably in the book. 

The first thing I thought of for your goals is Panther Gorge. I haven't personally been back there, so I'm not sure if there are sections of cliff you could throw a toprope on (but I would expect if you're determined you could work it out). It's between Marcy and Haystack, so mountains are nearby, and its seriously remote. Don't underestimate the difficulty of getting back there with a heavy pack.

Another possibility you might consider is a canoe trip. I'd talk to Raquette River Outfitters. I know it's possible to spend a few days paddling around and climbing, but I don't know off hand where you would go. This makes it less of a pain to carry all the climbing shit when you're not going to really use it that much. 

If you're willing to separate the climbing from the backpacking, it opens up more options, and saves you carrying a rack and rope along with all the backpacking junk. Then I would really recommend Pete's Farewell. It's one of the most fun climbs I've done, in a beautiful setting. Or, Little Finger, which requires canoeing to the base and then climbing practically straight out of the water. While the climbing is never hard, if your group is less experienced the exposure and insecure friction climbing might be daunting.

James Gurian wrote:

The first thing I thought of for your goals is Panther Gorge. I haven't personally been back there, so I'm not sure if there are sections of cliff you could throw a toprope on (but I would expect if you're determined you could work it out). It's between Marcy and Haystack, so mountains are nearby, and its seriously remote. Don't underestimate the difficulty of getting back there with a heavy pack.

Top roping in Panther Gorge !!??  Even a cursory review of what's getting done in there should kill that notion.

Very Strange wrote:

I almost laughed at the suggestion of Panther Gorge, a quasi-alpine cirque with committing multipitches in raw condition, being a good toprope crag for beginners. Seems like you're the one underestimating how hard it is to get back there...?

So, yeah, I haven't been back there and I'm kind of talking out of my ass. But photos like this lead me to believe that there's some broken up terrain you could scramble around and drop a top rope on (the routes in that picture are about 60 feet). Adirondack Rock lists a few more routes with walk-offs that are less then 35 meters. I suspect most people that go back there aren't looking for 60 foot 5.6's, so not many get done/reported. I don't know whether this group has the skills or confidence to scramble around without a detailed topo/guidebook description, but there seems to be more to the area than bold and committing multipitches. 

in  central VT the 1st weekend of may is often the first hatch but its usually not significant. the peak season INMOP is the memorial day through the 1st 2 weeks of june.  Almost bled to death on Vertigo/canon june 6th one year. had a simeler experience on Willard june 6th another year. my birthday is june 1st and one of the reasons I have never had a real birthday party is the black flies.

Hi, Bryan et al. I’ll speak mostly to Panther Gorge since that’s where I’ve been focused lately. PG isn’t a place I’d recommend unless everyone in the group has all-around backcountry experience—(in this instance hiking 9 miles with a camping/climbing pack [such a pack for me weighs around 60 lbs. by the time you get the food/water/bear canister/camping and climbing gear in] over rugged terrain while navigating/experience backcountry climbing/dealing with loose rock on occasion).

Even if one camps at Slant rock (7.2 miles in), then there’s still a 600’ ascent and bushwhack to contend with before the actual climbing. The entire N pass is an overgrown talus field. Think Spider’s Web with larger pieces covered with duff and fir and a few small caves thrown in.

If you look at the routes in Mtn. Proj., there’s a .10a TR down past the Agharta Wall (though you have to climb a .8+ with a couple loose blocks to set it up) and parts of the Panther Den are around 100’ high so it’s logistically POSSIBLE to top rope to the N. I walked off that twice and the krummholz is heinous so I wouldn’t want to traverse top to try and set up a TR—I’m rappelling from now on ;)

My photo (the one alluded to by James Gurian) shows the free-standing pillar (40’/ 5.9 fingercrack) to the left and the Ramp Wall on the right. You have to climb it to TR the pillar. Haystack is downright nasty to bushwhack up (worse than Marcy). We TR’d Less than Zero on the Ramp Wall ONLY after climbing it since we had climbers during that trip. Routes on that wall are around 100’. Getting to the base for a lead is bad enough.

Anyway what is POSSIBLE and what I’d recommend are two totally different things. We tend to think of TR’ing as something to do after a longer lead if we still have the energy (or if nothing else is dry). I would not go back there for that reason alone and unless everyone’s experienced.

Kevin Heckler’s correct. High elevation routes in the region aren’t really dry until June. The snowpack seeps until about that time. There’s still 6’ up there. We’ve tried in May and done some desperation climbing up wet lines. I’ve also walked through patches of snow and found ice in the talus during June when the blackflies are out…be ready for some headnet climbing.

N. Fork Boquet has a few lines that could be top-roped. It’s about 1.5 hours walk from Round Pond. There’s plenty of camping options there. It has a very remote feel. The Courtyard in Johns Brook valley may be another option though I haven’t personally been there. ADK Rock has a bunch of other venues listed that may help as well.

As someone who's been a fellow new-router in Panther Gorge with Kevin (and someone who's lived here 20+ years) I'll expand a bit on his warning.  Besides the requisite broad skill base/expertise needed to operate back there safely...you better have a group of self-loathing masochists if you're heading back there with overnight climbing packs.  If a miracle happens here and it warms up/is sunny for the next 30 days, you might be able to climb something, but then you'll be carried away/devoured by the black flies.  More likely, you'll find plenty of snow back there still, stuff will be really wet, and the approach trails will be a muddy/icy mess still at elevation.  I speak from experience as I jumped the gun and did a Wallface trip one really warm/dry May.  The approach was still a mess, we made the brilliant choice of a 5.9R route, which was super engaging/exciting since you can't see well wearing a headnet and full bug gear all day...the black flies were like something out of a horror movie.  I've included a picture of some post black fly climbing fun when they are bad for everyone's amusement (that was with bug dope applied).

Trying to be more helpful...May is a tough time here, especially with the itinerary you're describing.  If you're stuck with a May trip, I'd suggest roadside/lower elevation rock climbing, that way you'll have lots of (hopefully dry) high quality options and you'll really get a taste of the best rock climbing the area has to offer.  If you really want to back country camp, you could then do so with a lighter overnight pack (no climbing gear) and do some lower elevation hikes that would have drier trails.  If you're married to the idea of a back country climb, Noonmark Mountain might be a good choice?  It's a lower elevation peak, the routes are at the (treeless) summit, so it should be melted out/drier, hopefully windy if the bugs are bad, and the views of the Great Range are spectacular. Some two and three star routes in the 5.6- to 5.9 range, top rope is possible with gear (and a 50' piece of static/rigging line might help).  You could always camp at Round Pond and approach from the back side if you wanted to continue the backcountry camp next to water then climb theme.

Hope this helps, let us know if you have more questions!

arockclimber 

Thanks for the comments, everyone. After much soul searching, I think we're just going to do two days in the Dacks - one rafting the Hudson, and one on Noonmark for the view and checking out a local garnet mine. We'll do that overnight indoors.

The new plan is to subsequently spend the rest of the trip camped out in Witch's Hole in the Gunks, and hike/climb around there. What I'm reading is that the black flies aren't nearly as bad in the Catskills...

And Dacks, I'll be back for you "for real" in the fall. :)

• I recommend shelving rock. It's on lake George so you can swim if you enjoy frigid water. The flies generally aren't super bad. Low elevation so no melting snow. Lots of low risk climbing (sport and TR). Also you can hike on shelving rock mountain. Not sure if it's allowed but I have primitively camped on the shoulder on the mountain near the first gulley that can be used to access the cliffs (I believe this is near the desert shield wall if memory serves...)