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Be clear about the bird closures around here, OK? YOU ARE ON CAMERA!
Locals Only wrote: How are you so adept at finding the most irritating climbers? |
jg fox wrote: Great question, and my answer has several parts. 1. I'm an irritating climber...light on the climbing, heavy on the irritating...just ask your local expert braj! 2. A large chunk of our peer group are a bunch of dewchebags. It's not hard to find irritation if you spend .34 seconds to look for it. What's that whole thing about swinging a dead cat or whatever? 3. Colorado |
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Tony, any hints about where the birdies chose to nest this year? |
Corey Flynn wrote: It sounds like you're implying it is okay to do this. I may be wrong about what you meant but if not, this is the epitome of selfishness at the expense of others (both human and animal). I don't live in Boulder but there are plenty of restrictions in my area for the sake of endangered species and I'm happy to abide them. |
Rob Gordon wrote: Edgy. |
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IMHO (trying not to get shanked here) one thing that would be nice for Boulder would be a super clear resource for what is currently closed as well as what was closed and is now open. The standard warnings at the top of MP sections are generally boiler plate and often state a route/crag is closed when it was closed but is now open. Then there are a lot of conflicting resources for example: Eldo: all resources point here: http://cpw.state.co.us/placestogo/parks/EldoradoCanyon/Pages/Conditions.aspx which currently reads:  Oh hell yes! Little old but let's do this! They would surely update this page if anything was really closed. Oh but wait... on http://boulderclimbers.org/we-must-respect-land-closures/ another trusty resource it says:  And it's March.... "full details here" link then points to the cpw.state.co.us page above, sweet! We must be good then!!!!! (but no I'm pretty sure some crags are closed). I find this to be the case for many of the climbing areas in Boulder. It's not an excuse but it should be way easier to sort out what is/was/isn't closed in the Boulder area right now. It feels like a research project sometimes figuring this out. Their should be physical signs out there as well but you are assuming everyone came in on the same path(s). I do take these closures seriously which is why I find it so annoying the info is hard to find at times w/o picking up a phone and calling a ranger (at least for Eldo, no clue who to call for BoCan, Micky Mouse wall? Maybe rangers?). Want to spread the knowledge? Make it easy to find, keep MP super up to date so it can be trusted as well as these other sites that people are looking at for info. I'd be game to help. |
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This is the official page for Raptor Closures on OSMP administered lands (Mickey Mouse, etc.): https://bouldercolorado.gov/osmp/cliff-nesting-raptor-closures |
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You don’t have to give a shit about the birds, I happen to be a big nature conservationist and do (genuinely surprised that others don’t think golden eagles are badass and worth inconveniencing ourselves the tiniest bit to go to one of the thousands of other options), but at the very least you should give a shit about the climbing not being shutdown; which means, if you don’t want to fuck up climbing access then respect the rules that bigger people than you have decided on. This is a community and we all have a stake, the folks who willingly disregarded the closure shouldn’t be in the community if they can’t handle the rules. Seems like it’s been enough time for whoever to come forward and now it’s on us the community to sort it out. Post the pictures and get the community involved. |
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Gold Plated Rocket Pony wrote: GPRP: I work with ACE, MP admins, and the CPW web team to keep this information up to date. I will be posting a closure later on today (Upper rattlesnake and Continental Crag this year, golden eagles). I'm also the guy that hangs all the signs and installs fences, obstacles, trail cameras, and such - there's no way to just throw a switch, it takes about one business day to get it all in place. In case you're interested, the Eldo eagles spent a little extra time selecting a nest this year. That's why this closure is going in late. Mike |
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Well... just to add my grain of salt... It's good to think in terms of "climbing community", however that's an increasingly wide net to cast. There are a lot of different profiles especially in popular destination. Even if, say, the "community" behaves well in 95% of the cases, given a popular area with thousands of accesses per year, that 5% (or put it down to 1% if you wish) is still a very large number of accesses. Probably too many. If the community is somehow involved (though volunteers etc) that's great a it buys goodwill for accesses and minimizing closures, but if too much poop hits the fan, then you would still be looking at shutting down the proverbial fan, regardless of how nice of a fan that is. So I am inclined to say they should probably be turned in, with the understanding that this is a bit of an example for the community. Sucks for them, but if things are obvious at the crags/trailhead and there's really not much excuses for not noticing the closures, then fuck it they had their chances. =========== That being said, if the goal of the fines are to be a deterrent, I think 10k is too high. It leads to a situation like this one, where you have people clearly infringing, someone knowing that they are but being reluctant to go all the way with this partly because, well, this is a lot of cash. I don't know if you have any means of conveying that perspective to USFS. If the goal is to be an effective deterrent, the question should be "how much money is enough to make sure that it's not worth to take the chance for a route, regardless how much you want to climb it"? Then try to not go too much above that. Maybe 3-5k would be more appropriate, or maybe 1k is enough. Or maybe confiscation of all gear used during the violation, with some additional fine.... |
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mcarizona wrote: Well, Law Enforcement Agencies regularly post surveillance photos of perpetrators committing crimes, don't they? It's a clear case of unidentified subjects committing an infraction, and being caught on camera in a place they never should have been. This isn't someone posting a smartphone video they took of someone out in public; it's video captured in a restricted area, of people engaging in a prohibited activity.(An activity which constitutes a federal crime, with very stiff penalties.) I wouldn't classify this as cyberbullying. |
Andrew Krajnik wrote: Not to take sides, but your argument isnt valid. I'm pretty sure no one on this thread is a law enforcement officer.. regardless of how i feel about about the incident (i personally don't agree in climbing in areas while rapture closures are active), i also don't agree with non-appointed officials acting like detectives and soliciting people online to try and identify someone who may have committed a crime. |
curt86iroc wrote: Well, here's the problem: If these guys don't own up to it, and the situation escalates, the Federal Government will be in possession of these pictures. And you can bet that they will post them, asking for people to identify the perpetrators. (BTW, the maximum fine is $100k, not $10k.) This is Tony's quandary. I think it's clear that he's not rabble-rousing, nor gathering up a lynch mob; he's trying to be proactive and defuse this situation as quietly as possible. Ideally, he wants to minimize the impact to the birds, reduce the penalty incurred by the climbers, and preserve access for everyone. |
Gold Plated Rocket Pony wrote: You need signs more visible than this?  |
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If you're over the age of 18 and "feel" like you're being cyberbullied, you need to be run over with a tank. What have we become? An 18 year old in 1950 was a man or woman. These days we're chocked full of 28 year olds still living with their parents or driving around in a paid-for van, whining about sh*tty wifi signal and "cyberbullying" LOL. We need another big war stat, humanity needs a HUGE figurative slap in the face. I hope I didn't offend any nancies that may be reading. My most sincere apologies. |
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Just a quick note to Tony for both doing the right thing, and putting up with the extranious BS. Yer a good man Tony. |
Locals Only wrote: read this and tell me if you believe cyber-bullying is still harmless... |
