Bolt Failures

Lena chita wrote:

Then there are somewhat-related failures where the rock wasn't a problem, the hole-drilling was fine, and the bolt was fine, too, but the 5-piece bolt, new, got loosened and pulled out.

This has happened to me as well in the RRG. Since then I carry a 9/16 wrench every time I go sport cragging and it's already come in handy a few times.

Robert Hall wrote:

Kinda figured they (3/8" buttonheads) might have been more "popular" out west, most of my climbing has been in the N East.

I've seen 2 first hand and heard of several others. One was a severely corroded 1/4" buttonhead that I pulled out with a quickdraw at Sunset Rock a few years ago. The other time was a few months ago when a friend pulled off a toaster sized block the bolt was in. It looked like the expansion sleeve created a fracture in the rock causing it to become detached from the wall. 

In ANAM 2012 there is an incident in NRG of a route equipped by a gumby and one of the bolts installed under a roof (being loaded in tension) pulled out. The threads on all of the bolts appeared to be damaged, preventing them from being properly torqued. 

I remember hearing about rock failure from a glue-in on a sport climbing in the St. George area a few years ago. 

Can't think of any more off the top of my head but I know I've read about at least 2 other bolt failures within the last few years on threads here

As above if you haven't heard of any bolt failures its only because you are in an area with relatively new 3/8' bolts.

The real time bomb out there are the huge number of galvanized carbon steel 3/8" bolts that are getting to be 30 years old....at some point in the future there is going to be an epidemic of failure/urgency to replace them.

And the real chore of re-bolting all of those will be a reckoning.

I witnessed a modern 3/8 bolt failure on this route https://www.mountainproject.com/route/111893793/anti-reflective. I climbed and whipped on the route, then my partner (light female climber) was climbing and cleaning the draws when she pendulum'd off the overhang and the outward force just pulled the bolt right out.

The one on the right at least had some glue on it and a quick link?

Wow! THAT'S a Bolt?  Looks like an old ring-angle piton into a drilled hole...but in granite???  Wierd, no matter if a real bolt of pin! 

Meanwhile, the bolt on the left, if it is stainless, appears to have a non-stainless washer.

Many of the bolts on Rogers rock are pathetic. Even some of the new routes that went up in the last decade have a mix of stainless and plated Ina marine environment. Some folks should not be allowed to drill...

Robert Hall wrote:

Wow! THAT'S a Bolt?  Looks like an old ring-angle piton into a drilled hole...but in granite???  Wierd, no matter if a real bolt of pin! 

Meanwhile, the bolt on the left, if it is stainless, appears to have a non-stainless washer.

Sorry to be off-topic, but it held for a rappel, no failure. However, I'm not so sure I'd want to factor on this... wasn't sure if it was original or had been re-purposed? I guess they don't make-em like they used to?  

There are definitely a lot more cases than I imagined of bolt failure. Especially on routes developed more recently than I anticipated.

King Tut wrote:

As above if you haven't heard of any bolt failures its only because you are in an area with relatively new 3/8' bolts.

The real time bomb out there are the huge number of galvanized carbon steel 3/8" bolts that are getting to be 30 years old....at some point in the future there is going to be an epidemic of failure/urgency to replace them.

And the real chore of re-bolting all of those will be a reckoning.

You're telling me man. I might be off, but I seem to remember approximately 17,000 bolts in the area covered by the Boulder Climbing Community. Most of the bolting was done in the 80's and 90's with 3/8" SS, using glue on the outside of the hole around the bolt to seal it up. Turns out the glue doesn't keep water out, but its really good at keeping water in. The whole thing is going to be a nightmare. A complete nightmare.

Eliot Augusto wrote:

There are definitely a lot more cases than I imagined of bolt failure. Especially on routes developed more recently than I anticipated.

You're telling me man. I might be off, but I seem to remember approximately 17,000 bolts in the area covered by the Boulder Climbing Community. Most of the bolting was done in the 80's and 90's with 3/8" SS, using glue on the outside of the hole around the bolt to seal it up. Turns out the glue doesn't keep water out, but its really good at keeping water in. The whole thing is going to be a nightmare. A complete nightmare.

Most bolting around Boulder was with 3/8" carbon steel 5-pieces (or 1/2" carbon steel 5-pieces), although there are a good number of 10mm stainless Raumer bolts from the first ascents in the mid-late '90s. A good situation since at most areas it's pretty much unheard of to find any stainless bolt placed in the 1980s through the entire 1990s. Also the corrosion rate around Boulder is fairly low, especially compared to the SE, NE, or PNW. And there are a lot of older bolts around Boulder which are still bigger and better than 1/4" - including some weird stuff like drop-ins, 3/8" Star-Dryvins, Mammut ring bolts, etc. A lot of these funky bolts are a huge pain to remove for rebolters...which is generally a good sign for people using the ones yet to be replaced.

There are still some 1/4" around though - I've replaced a number in Boulder Canyon recently, and a few at Lumpy and the South Platte. The South Platte has a lot more than most other areas in CO.

Also since 5/16" buttonheads look big (most people think they are 3/8" bolts), and since they are typically coupled with a modern stainless hangers, they are among the most dangerous bolts since everyone assumes they are bomber. Most rebolters did until the fatal accident at Owens, and now we really need to pay attention to where they are and get after them. It's easy to miss them since they were frequently used on lead at desperate stances with a power drill, while 3/8" were used at good stances, so it's not uncommon to find one here or there on a route that you think is all 3/8". Most of them are super strong and hard to get out, but every once in a while one will snap with very little force.

How many bolts have I seen broken or broke myself?   A hundred?  No,  more than that.  Several hundred.   But they were all on Cayman Brac and were all cracked by SCC.   I've broken bolts off with my fingers, snapped hangers in half,  had them break from about 50lbs force.   You name it, they broke.   All 304 or 316 stainless, 3/8" high quality bolts.   But I don't think that's what the OP's  looking for, eh?

Greg Barnes wrote:

Stuff

Do you have any good advice on starting and learning the bolting game?

John Byrnes wrote:

How many bolts have I seen broken or broke myself?   A hundred?  No,  more than that.  Several hundred.   But they were all on Cayman Brac and were all cracked by SCC.   I've broken bolts off with my fingers, snapped hangers in half,  had them break from about 50lbs force.   You name it, they broke.   All 304 or 316 stainless, 3/8" high quality bolts.   But I don't think that's what the OP's  looking for, eh?

I am assuming you're referring to salt corrosion cracked the bolts. And I don't suppose any of them were glue-in Ti bolts were they? :p

Climate makes a huge different, I definitely get that. I was mostly trying to gauge the scope of the issue.

Robert Hall wrote:

Eliot Augusto wrote:

Do you have any good advice on starting and learning the bolting game?

I am assuming you're referring to stress cracking corrosion the bolts. And I don't suppose any of them were glue-in Ti bolts were they? :p

Climate makes a huge different, I definitely get that. I was mostly trying to gauge the scope of the issue.

Fixed that for you. And yes, he was referring to stress cracking corrosion, which isn't known to affect Ti glue-ins. 

Eliot Augusto wrote:

I am assuming you're referring to salt corrosion cracked the bolts. And I don't suppose any of them were glue-in Ti bolts were they? :p

Don't call it "salt corrosion" because that's misleading.  It's Stress Corrosion Cracking, SCC, and there's plenty of stuff posted here on the topic.   And although I had a bolt break on me, and two people hit the deck, and another had one of her anchor bolts come spinning down the rope while rappelling, most of the bolts I've broken were while re-bolting with Ti glue-ins.   

 I had several dozen snap off when using them for directionals to hold me close to the cliff.  After rebolting, I'd put a wrench on them to remove them.  Often the nut would just crumble but usually the bolt would just snap off flush with the rock.

Climate makes a huge different, I definitely get that. I was mostly trying to gauge the scope of the issue.

Not just climate but also the type of rock, the type of material, surrounding vegetation and the orientation/aspect/location of the cliff.     As far as scope, I'd say that bolts in areas prone to SCC are the number one issue world-wide.   We're lucky in the U.S. that only a few places (N. California, Hawaii, Puerto Rico) have confirmed SCC, although not enough time has passed to be sure about other areas yet. 

caughtinside wrote:

I broke a 15 year old stainless steel bolt. It was seaside, only mildly discolored on the surface but after it sheared, the metal under the surface looked like black campfire ash. 

Classic SCC.

Re' the old drilled ring angle....just commenting that I'd never seen a "drilled pition placement" in granite....only sandstone and other soft rock.  It probably is good, but I if I had to rap off it (as the only piece) I think I'd put a tied-off sling around the shaft of the pin...both to cut down on the angle of the force, but more importantly not to trust the 30+ year-old weld in the ring. 

I´d guess I hear of 10 to 20 per year which probably amounts to a hundred or so world wide (I´ve contacts in a lot of places but not everywhere and most failures aren´t reported anyway). Accidents maybe half a dozen per year.

Deaths, I know of around ten fatalities in relatively recent history but some of them it´s more a question of the bolt failure being contributory, not the actual cause.

All that in the context of an estimate of 5,000,000 plus bolts out there, many being unsuitable/dubious quality/old/never intended for use as climbing equipment and installed in a less than optimum way! It´s also worth noting that the standard was never designed for bolts to be repetitively fallen on for decades and like other climbing gear under the "replace if fallen on when nescessary" category. Glue-ins are better in this respect but bolt-ins are definately not a long-term solution for frequently loaded bolts.

Usually the failures are poor bolt quality, wrong bolt for the application and poor installation. Modern CE certified bolts are amazingly good when you look at what is actually going wrong out there.