Childfree because I don't want to fuck up my climbing; husband not happy

Viper. as i said earlier if they have legit medical reason  in sickness and health bla bla bla.  If they just suddenly decide they want their freedom after the big plan to have a family chances are you got some serious problems comming your way.........

what do trolls eat? asking for a friend

Hobo Greg wrote:

WHY do people enjoy having kids so much? Is it type II fun? I personally think it's an ego trip. Molding the child in your image, or the image you see fit. Pretty weird, the whole thing.

I used to think the same thing, never really wanted kids but decided to do it after 10 years of marriage.   I can't explain it but I cannot imagine not having kids now for the pure reason of being able to love someone as much as I love my kids.   Believe me it's no ego trip, quite the opposite, it's very humbling.   

Having kids is like any other dramatic challenge. Afterwards you spend the rest of your life rationalizing what a good thing it was and can't imagine life without it; you feel the need to constantly talk about it, and tell other people about how they should go through the same thing. Trauma is a fucked up thing. I think true selfishness is a need to reproduce yourself over and over again. Their are currently more people alive on the planet than have ever existed in human history. Think about that. We don't need more people. My wife and I went through the same thing as you and your husband. I decided to not have children and she initially wanted them, now she tells me all the time how happy she is to not have fallen to societal pressure.

Jack Quarless wrote:

Having kids is like any other dramatic challenge that you wish you could avoid. Afterwards you spend the rest of your life rationalizing what a good thing it was and can't imagine life without it; you feel the need to constantly talk about it, and tell other people about how they should go through the same thing. Trauma is a fucked up thing. I think true selfishness is a need to reproduce yourself over and over again. Their are currently more people alive on the planet that has ever existed in human history. Think about that. We don't need more people. The only reason I want children is to have somebody take care of me in the  future resource wars. My wife and I went through the same thing as you and your husband. I decided to not have children and she initially wanted them, now she tells me all the time how happy she is to not have fallen to societal pressure.

You make some good points, but the key here is selective reproduction.  Great example - my kid is gorgeous, smart, and will be a huge net gain for society, whereas a good majority of children (and likely the kids of a lot of you) are mediocre at best and amount to a net loss, if you look at the total impact.  The main hurdle to this approach, is those of us (and when I say us, I don't mean me) that are reproducing these unnecessary babbies are ALSO lacking the capacity to understand that they are the party responsible.

Hobo Greg wrote:

WHY do people enjoy having kids so much? Is it type II fun? I personally think it's an ego trip. Molding the child in your image, or the image you see fit. Pretty weird, the whole thing.

The logical conclusion of that line of thought would be "why does life exist?"  

Hobo Greg wrote:

WHY do people enjoy having kids so much? Is it type II fun? I personally think it's an ego trip. Molding the child in your image, or the image you see fit. Pretty weird, the whole thing.

Nice try, but the vast majority of parents these days are incompetent. Even if they tried to mold their children in their images they would fail miserably. They don't understand the psychology of babies and therefore their efforts often produce a different result than the one they desire.

ChossKing wrote:

what do trolls eat? asking for a friend

They eat their young - this explains the OP's reticence to have kids.

So as a (somewhat recent) father -

1) Having kids is awesome.  Pretty hard to explain to someone who doesn’t, but I definitely wouldn’t give up my daughter for anything (including climbing).  Hoping to get her into the sport when she’s older so I’ll have a future belay partner, and at the very least you can make climbing trips “family trips” and bring them along, with the right set of partners.

2) Having kids is freaking hard.  You definitely climb less (for a while) and sleep less (maybe permanently)?.  I don’t know how often you get outdoors now, but having kids definitely makes this more challenging, though not impossible.  After the first few months, you can make quick trips happen...I think my first day trip was about 3 months after she was born.  Helps if you have family nearby to help with childcare, but it has to be something you are committed to.

3) It’s not impossible to stay in shape.  I’m probably in better shape now than before I had kids and have continued progressing, though it’s definitely harder to get enough training volume in.  That said, obviously my body was less directly affected so it’s hard for me to speak to the specific experience of childbearing, but my wife has bounced back (she’s not a climber, though).

”I don’t want kids” sounds like you’ve made up your mind and, Iike others said, you really need to talk to your husband.  It is your body and you definitely shouldn’t have kids to make somebody else happy, but that could be a big dealbreaker.  Things change and people change, the question is: can you change together and remain compatible?  Hope you can figure things out.

Jane W wrote:

When we got married, my husband (a non-climber) and I were in agreement that at some point we'd have kids. After getting married, however, I began climbing a little more seriously and it has become a large part of my life now. I love how my body looks, how healthy and powerful it is, and what it can do on the rocks. I also value my free time and our ability to get out of town on the weekends for climbing (for me) and hiking (us) trips. So my feelings about kids have changed and I think I've decided against ever having kids. I know, I know, there are a lot of great women climbers out there who have had kids and are still crushing and enjoying their lives. But, as an OB nurse and former nanny, I know there is a lot more to their story that you might not know about. Being pregnant and delivering a baby can fuck up your anatomy and your physiology in more ways than you think, and taking on the reponsibility of caring for another human 24/7 is the most stressful thing you can do to yourself. Understandably, my husband is upset. He has always been excited about having kids some day. I'm in my early thirties, so it's a pretty time-sensitive problem. What have been your experiences with being pregant, having a baby, being a parent, and continuing climbing?

Climbing won't be the best thing in your life forever, that would be pathetic.

Hail Ceaser. Wasn't he the head monke in "Planet of the apes"? Irrelevant.

Geez, glad you're not my doc an MD who uses the word c*nt? You're no doc...maybe you have a PhD in bullshit  thats about it.

I'm not sure what all the wrapping stuff was, juts saying this is an age old story of people changing their minds, or wantng something else, and then finding a reason to do it that even though its not really the reason. I think it in the bible somewhere althoght honestly never read it.

Vagina's, narrcism, uterin walls, when did I get into any of that? Trolling? The last trolling I did was off Montauk about 12 years ago for Bluefin. Puked my brains out and it was a 3 day trip. 

This not just a climbing gym phenomenon, its a regular gym phenomenon, heck a daily life phenomenon. People want out of relationships the rationalize stuff to make themselves feel better, that whatthey are doing is for the reason they make up. She can do whatever she wants wit her life she's not happy obviously and I'm no ne to judge right and wrong. I just see BS written all over her excuse and calling her on it. 

Doc, Puhleeze go back to dealing with vagina's and thank god your not a psychiatrist.

Jason Kim wrote:

What a strange attitude you have.  Certainly, there are some very rare, heritable medical conditions that would make anyone think twice before having kids.  But Alzheimer's?  Even if you do end up having to live through its horrors, you're likely to be in your 60's or beyond.  Your children grown and able to fend for themselves.  Plenty of time to live a long and fruitful life.  Is life not worth it? 

Guess you have never watched someone slowly die over 10-20 years. You know what it is like to tell your mom something and 15mins  later she has completely forgotten what you said? Like she is physically alive but already dead since you can't really tell her anything that she will remember most of the time.

Nothing has brought me more joy than my three sons. 

Whether it's topping out their first route, that walk-off HR, or gig'ing in bars at age 16, going out for drinks, watching them grow up in be their own men...they are the memories I cherish the most. 

And yeah, there are the late night calls from the cops, court appearances, etc....But I wouldn't give it up for anything.

Climbing is important to me. But if it were the only thing in my life, I feel I'd be missing out on so much more. 

The topic of gratitude comes to mind....being grateful for everything. I'm not a good writer, so I'll leave this quote...and I've forgotten the author.

"Be in a state of gratitude for everything that shows up in your life. Be thankful for the storms as well as the smooth sailing. What is the lesson or gift in what you are experiencing right now? Find your joy not in what's missing in your life but in how you can serve."

Great joy comes from serving others. 

I wish you all the best.

David S wrote:

I'm not a good writer, so I'll leave this quote...and I've forgotten the author.

"Be in a state of gratitude for everything that shows up in your life. Be thankful for the storms as well as the smooth sailing. What is the lesson or gift in what you are experiencing right now? Find your joy not in what's missing in your life but in how you can serve."

Wayne Dyer. 

Google is your friend: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Be+in+a+state+of+gratitude+for+everything+that+shows+up+in+your+life.+Be+thankful+for+the+storms+as+well+as+the+smooth+sailing.+What+is+the+lesson+or&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

I'll go out with you.   We can climb, hook up, have fun, and not bother with kids!

This Mark Anderson article is probably relevant to OP, read to the end.

https://rockclimberstrainingmanual.com/2017/05/05/40-climbing-lessons/

Jason Kim wrote:

Flawed logic on so many levels.  

Kudos to the OP (giving her the benefit of the doubt that she isn't trolling) for being honest with herself about all this.  Can't say that I would seek advice on this topic from MP of all places, but it makes for interesting discussion.

There are times in life where you reach a cross roads and must decide which way to go, and there is no going back.  It's a decision that only you can make, and I wish you luck.  Be honest with yourself, first and foremost.  Then be honest with your partner.

FWIW, I am a parent of two young boys and of course the realities of parenthood requires some real sacrifice, but the joy they bring to my life is incomparable to anything else I've ever experienced.  

  

Sage advice. 

ViperScale wrote:

Guess you have never watched someone slowly die over 10-20 years. You know what it is like to tell your mom something and 15mins  later she has completely forgotten what you said? Like she is physically alive but already dead since you can't really tell her anything that she will remember most of the time.

Sadly, I know exactly what it's like. My paternal grandfather succumbed to Parkinson's after a 15 year battle and my maternal grandmother eventually took her own life after a 15 year battle with Alzheimer's/generalized dementia. It's hard. But never to have lived at all? That is far more sad, in my opinion.  

Hobo Greg wrote:

From a biological, evolutionary perspective, simply to make more life, only for that life to make more life. Pretty nihilistic.

you ever seen that bumper sticker that says "If you can read this, thank a teacher"?......yeah... you should thank your parents, that'd be great!

climbing friend,

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if you no longer want to have the child, for obvious, you shall not be forcing yourself to do it. It is somewhat troubling you appear to be trying to convince yourself to do it. little larry would not like to know that mom she would rather climb and be free but forced herself to try to tolerate having an unwanted or not really wanted child. this is perhaps not so awesome for little larry.

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