Core training, helpful or just another useless fad?

I've done very few core specific workouts in my tenure. Generally am pretty weak at the activity when compared to my friends who do them incessantly. Yet, rarely find my core being the thing that flamed out/made it impossible to execute the move. This is just my anecdotal observation. I just that any prep I need to do can be done whilst gym bouldering. 

Ryan Palo wrote:

I've done very few core specific workouts in my tenure. Generally am pretty weak at the activity when compared to my friends who do them incessantly. Yet, rarely find my core being the thing that flamed out/made it impossible to execute the move. This is just my anecdotal observation. I just that any prep I need to do can be done whilst gym bouldering. 

I think there are very few routes unless maybe your're doing a really long roof, where you think "my core is having a hard time with this". It's really just a group of supporting muscles. The point is that having a strong core makes the other things easier, like not falling off that crimp because you're able to maintain body position better. You really just blame your fingers at that point, but have a strong core would help, sometimes a lot.

Well, have you ever pumped out after your feet cut?  What did you blame?  I think it's kind of like the argument for aggressive shoes.  Yeah, your forearms pumping out or fingers not having enough strength are usually going to be the most direct source of failure, but maybe with a stronger core or better shoes you could have taken more of the weight off your hands and not felt as pumped.  It's hard to isolate one variable, as climbing really is a full-body activity if you're doing it right.

Ryan Hamilton wrote:

I think there are very few routes unless maybe your're doing a really long roof, where you think "my core is having a hard time with this". It's really just a group of supporting muscles. The point is that having a strong core makes the other things easier, like not falling off that crimp because you're able to maintain body position better. You really just blame your fingers at that point, but have a strong core would help, sometimes a lot.

I believe there's a lot of truth to this. If I had more time to train, I'd use this argument to justify the time spent. 

Mark E Dixon wrote:

Pretty sure no amount of core training is going to get me up a 13d.  

Anyway, my understanding is that 6 packs result from low body fat more than ab strength. 

Mistaken?

Yes and no. Low body fat is essential, and abs won't make you climb a 5.13d, but if you have no core you have no shot. I prefer severely overhanging roof's which are way different then Ryan's Smith rock. Ab training, like sit ups, are not very useful. Integrated core exercises, are essential. It is humiliating to learn how to do a lever, It takes forever and your first year or two you will look like an idiot. however, it's more humiliating to fail because you have no core. Do you think there any advantages to not Training your core?

Jack Quarless wrote:

Yes and no. Low body fat is essential, and abs won't make you climb a 5.13d, but if you have no core you have no shot. I prefer severely overhanging roof's which are way different then Ryan's Smith rock. Ab training, like sit ups, are not very useful. Integrated core exercises, are essential. It is humiliating to learn how to do a lever, It takes forever and your first year or two you will look like an idiot. however, it's more humiliating to fail because you have no core. Do you think there any advantages to not Training your core?

Not at all. But my recovery ability is limited so I need to be a little selective. Especially for rest day activities. 

FWIW I can hold a decent front lever for about 5 seconds. Did take a while to learn!

What else would you consider an integrated core exercise?

@Lena- I thought all of Horst's exercises were pretty shoulder intensive, except for the supermans. Those don't seem like they would be challenging enough to be helpful, although I should give them a try. 

Core strength is one of those things that all else equal, more is usually better. But often it's hard to pinpoint in climbing either because of difference in finger strength, body type, or use of different beta (occasionally it's pretty obvious). Lynn Hill attributes her climbing partially to core strength (and other things) from gymnastics. Core strengthening has definitely helped my wife's climbing tremendously (both in terms of higher grades and injury prevention) and she routines kicks my butt these days. 

Whether it'll help you really depends on your physique, circumstances & the style of climbing you prefer.

P.S. Mark, why don't you come train w/ us one of these days during lunch? I heard you've bulked up & moving a lot of weights around, perhaps core strength isn't your weakness anymore?

Mark E Dixon wrote:

Not at all. But my recovery ability is limited so I need to be a little selective. Especially for rest day activities. 

FWIW I can hold a decent front lever for about 5 seconds. Did take a while to learn!

What else would you consider an integrated core exercise?

@Lena- I thought all of Horst's exercises were pretty shoulder intensive, except for the supermans. Those don't seem like they would be challenging enough to be helpful, although I should give them a try. .

Five seconds is not a joke, depending on the form. Well done.  Other ideas, Leg lifts, while keeping your spine on the ground. All the way down nearly impossible. One arm plank, while rotating the other arm with a weight. And ironically, squats. Ring workouts are the bomb shit is but not very recovery based. I love Roman horses, but they're really easy to do incorrectly. I try to put my arms at full extension so I use more core then just my abs,   I put about 25 pounds at full extension over my head, definitely do it both directions. There are a bunch of kettle ball exercises,  and on and on, I'm a little psycho.  When was the last time you did an incline sit-up? 

Ryan Hamilton wrote:

I think there are very few routes unless maybe your're doing a really long roof, where you think "my core is having a hard time with this". It's really just a group of supporting muscles. The point is that having a strong core makes the other things easier, like not falling off that crimp because you're able to maintain body position better. You really just blame your fingers at that point, but have a strong core would help, sometimes a lot.

100% agree.  since doing dedicated core (all sides) workouts I've felt that almost every climbing movement is made easier, just to different degrees.  

I think core strength matters...but also if your strong enough to do a legit 5 second front lever it is probably rarely a factor for you except for say inverted offwidths or really long roofs. 

Ive done heaps of long, steep climbing all over the US. You're right tho. I absolutely wouldnt spend my time doing any of this if my goals were soley here. Anyhow, Im with Dana on this. There's so much variance in core strength, that's it's difficult to quantify. It does have a good deal of importance. Still, you wont see me in any situp circle.

Core strength is undoubtedly important, especially for steeper climbing.  But the OP asked whether core *training* is helpful.  For a huge majority of climbers, if you have to choose between doing a core workout and, say, a gym climbing or hangboard workout, I believe you will get a much greater return from the climbing workout.  If you've already maxed out on climbing-specific workouts and need to rest your fingers anyways, a core-specific workout is likelier to help than to hurt.

reboot wrote:

Core strength is one of those things that all else equal, more is usually better. But often it's hard to pinpoint in climbing either because of difference in finger strength, body type, or use of different beta (occasionally it's pretty obvious). Lynn Hill attributes her climbing partially to core strength (and other things) from gymnastics. Core strengthening has definitely helped my wife's climbing tremendously (both in terms of higher grades and injury prevention) and she routines kicks my butt these days. 

Whether it'll help you really depends on your physique, circumstances & the style of climbing you prefer.

P.S. Mark, why don't you come train w/ us one of these days during lunch? I heard you've bulked up & moving a lot of weights around, perhaps core strength isn't your weakness anymore?

Mark knows what he needs and it's not kettlebell plank squat foolishness   And dude, sweet Jesus, he can do a five seconds lever? WTF?! I can't do that!

Women dig the abs brah...

Peter Beal wrote:

Mark knows what he needs and it's not kettlebell plank squat foolishness   And dude, sweet Jesus, he can do a five seconds lever? WTF?! I can't do that!

Ouch...I only get 3.5-4 hrs of training during the week so definitely no time to waste on kettlebell/plank/squat (have been keeping up w/ the one arm hangs though). Definitely impressed that he's worked up to 5 second lever!! Wife told me she saw him training hard. Really, I just want to see the transformed doc w/ my own eyes.

reboot wrote:

 Really, I just want to see the transformed doc w/ my own eyes.

I think my only transformation is becoming unemployed! Otherwise I'm still specializing in falling off sport routes. 

Saturdays are my main training days- but looking to eke out a little more suffering on my Tues/Thurs rest days.

Which days are you all in the weight room?

Mark E Dixon wrote:

I think my only transformation is becoming unemployed! Otherwise I'm still specializing in falling off sport routes. 

Saturdays are my main training days- but looking to eke out a little more suffering on my Tues/Thurs rest days.

Which days are you all in the weight room?

I have just been training at home. Come by some time! I've been avoiding the gyms, unless the nano-edge is back at the BRC...

Nano edge still missing as of last saturday. You'll have to do your one arm hangs on some other 5 mm edge.

Peter Beal wrote:

I have just been training at home. Come by some time! I've been avoiding the gyms, unless the nano-edge is back at the BRC...

When I saw it was gone I immediately thought you'd be pissed!

Mark: I've only been doing lunch time workouts: in the weight room Mon or Tues fingerboarding, otherwise bouldering Tues/Thur, usually starts at the bottom & ends up on the Moon board. Wife is gunning for a hard route @ Rifle so we've rarely been in town on the weekends.

Mark E Dixon wrote:

Nano edge still missing as of last saturday. You'll have to do your one arm hangs on some other 5 mm edge.

I have a quasi-nano at home but it's not the same!