Slab Climbing is the Offwidth of Face Climbing

Rainy Day Women (5.10a R)

I have top roped this one since it is on the rappel down from the great arch but never could get the nerve to lead it. The red circles are the bolts / anchor.

Ted Pinson,

While I freely admit I am no slab climbing wizard (or any climbing wizard for that matter), I have found that I truly love the thrill of slab climbing. I am in SoCal, so being near Joshua Tree affords me ample oportunity to give cheese grater slab a go once in awhile. First and foremost, I believe you have to approach a slab climb with creativity as some routes may have virtually no descernable hand/foot holds to speak of. You really have to make it up as you go and just follow the bolts or protection placements from those before you. Often times I have found many J Tree routes to consist primarily of minor bumps and indentations, basically an endless see of undulations in the rock that may or may not pop in the shadows depending on the lighting. One has to proceed ever so slowly on such terrain and have the utmost confidence in their feet and shoes. I have noticed that on many other styles of climbing one can rely hevaily on brute strength, sometimes speed and adrenaline. Slab climbing in contrast requires the climber to move slowly and deliberately from one position to another. I have found that keeping my body more or less squared off with the wall/route with the toes and/or balls of my feet firmly situated under my center of gravity has helped me immensely. I recently climbed a 5.10d (Sky's The Limit) in J Tree which has one hellova technical slab traverse, which required me to continuously step over my feet again and again while ensureing I did not rely on either outter edge of my shoes. Remember - your toes/balls of your feet for smearing is the key! As much as I want my hands to lead the way on such climbs, I almost feel as though every hand hold is more for my own emotional wellbeing and so only provides me a little more mental fortitude to proceed. Trust your feet and your shoes. Move slowly, steadily, and deliberately.

ViperScale wrote:Rainy Day Women (5.10a R)

The first pitch is actually a pretty nice lead and I'd consider it one of the more protected routes on that part of the south face (once you clip the first bolt that is) - doesn't feel overly runout or dangerous. I took a ~15 slider on P2 once after going left after the lone bolt.

Guy Keesee wrote: Very cool.... how is the surface? Any grip? Snapping flakes? The stuff that really wiggs me out is the very slick stuff, water polish like a tombstone, the stuff of nightmares. We have a climb at Balch Flake, near Fresno,..... In "Slickness and in Stealth" its brown water polished granite. 4 pitches of unrelenting 5.11 .... at the belays- its so low angle its ridiculous... you feel like you could just untie and walk off to the left. Talking about slab climbing reminds me of the time I told a young kid who was mouthing his disdain for the SLAB. My answer to him...."Kid there are two kinds of climbs in this world, the ones you can climb and the ones you can't" And one more thing.... I just love the climbs at the ORG that have the dreaded slab for the last 30 feet or so... Like "Escapade" 5.11a overhanging pockets to 30 feet of 5.10D edging/friction... you blow getting to the anchors... you slide into space. It makes people cry out-loud.

If you're referring to the water groove route - the groove itself is quite slick, so you end up stemming up the entire way up, which provides great friction. Obviously not much for the hands, some times I'd palm up the thing and every now and then you'd get a nice little sloping crimp (which feels like a jug, really).

With regards to Dixie Crystals - It has immaculate friction with tiny crystals most of the way up. So you can pretty much swim up that thing if you have good technique and keep your wits about you. There are a few isolated exfoliating sections towards the top but they can be easily avoided.

I learned in the Quincy Quarries, near Boston. Though it's pretty painted up now, it used to be a real nightmare..."5.9" from 1966 in rigid boots!!!! Real world 11B for sure.

if you want really slick stuff, go the north Wales and do some slate climbing.

john strand wrote:if you want really slick stuff, go the north Wales and do some slate climbing.

I would love to go to the Welsh quarries.
Is there anything moderate? I'm not up for the desperates.

Back in the 80s I used to take the T to Quincy, walk to Quincy Quarries and rope solo using a jumar. Then walk back to the T, ride home and call it a pretty good day!

IIRC, on Thursday mornings you could find lost gear from the weekly group climbs. Back then it was booty.

Jonathan Dull wrote: The first pitch is actually a pretty nice lead and I'd consider it one of the more protected routes on that part of the south face (once you clip the first bolt that is) - doesn't feel overly runout or dangerous. I took a ~15 slider on P2 once after going left after the lone bolt.

Yea I mean I have top roped it a few times and never fallen. I have this problem though with being terrified of heights. If normally start shaking when I have to walk over to the edge of a cliff to set a top rope on bolts. Given I have done climbs where it is 50ft runouts on 5.5 for 800ft but still anything 5.9+ with a 30ft runout (that isn't falling into an overhang) I would probably fall from the elvis leg.

I haven't been following ?
I saw the topic pop and thought:

If you want Climb in Yosemite ( rock climbing Mecca, where every climber wants to climb well )
you have to be able to dance up both ~ Wide and slick - on one climb, and often at the same time.

Having a head for Slab-run-outs, and a lower intelegence setting to push up 'The Wide' , Past any point of survivability,
are almost one and the same ' skill' or trick?

EDIT:

King Tut wrote: No Michael, I think the analogy is that friction slabs are very different than regular face climbing (esp sport) as OW is to regular cracks. OW/Flared Chimney is **very different** than hand or finger cracks. Totally different technique and muscle groups. More full body workout by far. Same with slab v. steep face climbing. Slab is often more foot/toe strength than finger strength and your legs get more pump than your arms. Both Slab/Wide can be difficult to protect. But one will test your nerves when dancing, the other when full body wedging...not the same at all.

Wait, really I have not read up so...
I was aiming at the point that one needs to embrace the different skills, the need
to be able to climb the various types of obstacles that come with the terrain.

Not choose a climb, or decline to try a route because of a section of some 'type' of climbing

Ah,

That "Yosemite" should read All of California,
I was thinking specifically about The Steck-Salathe, and. Green Dragon To Mr Natural;
(if you're wondering about other examples look at JTree and the -all over the Sierras !)

I don't know the names of the Tuolumne routes that I got set on, but they were all
star-driven, 1/4inch button-head protected
death run-outs back in the day!
We could never see a third bolt . . . never.
Often mid-run to #4, #3, would appear 15 ft right & 10 ft, below. . . . .

Mark E Dixon wrote: I would love to go to the Welsh quarries. Is there anything moderate? I'm not up for the desperates. Back in the 80s I used to take the T to Quincy, walk to Quincy Quarries and rope solo using a jumar. Then walk back to the T, ride home and call it a pretty good day! IIRC, on Thursday mornings you could find lost gear from the weekly group climbs. Back then it was booty.

Ya, some stuff. dervish is a cool 10+ or so that actually follows a thin crack,,quite thin. There's another, forget the name ( Collosus ?)that's a big pitch 160' or so with lots of bolts E3 5C so again around 10+/11A

I'm sure there's tons more, i haven't been in a while.

When I was climbing there a guy said to me "you 've climbed on the slick before?"

Aye

Michael Schneider wrote:I haven't been following ? I saw the topic pop and thought: If you want Climb in Yosemite ( rock climbing Mecca, where every climber wants to climb well ) you have to be able to dance up both ~ Wide and slick - on one climb, and often at the same time. Having a head for Slab-run-outs, and a lower intelegence setting to push up 'The Wide' , Past any point of survivability, are almost one and the same ' skill' or trick?

I have only climbed in yosemite a single week but the entire time I was there I only did 1 runout slab route (snake dike). I think we got on 1 other slab route but had plenty of gear placements in a crack going up it. Ran into a few offwidth sections but nothing to that long, given I have only climbed there a week but based on all the other things I want to climb there next time I got there it didn't seem like that much offwidth / slab climbing.

Michael Schneider wrote:I haven't been following ? I saw the topic pop and thought: If you want Climb in Yosemite ( rock climbing Mecca, where every climber wants to climb well ) you have to be able to dance up both ~ Wide and slick - on one climb, and often at the same time. Having a head for Slab-run-outs, and a lower intelegence setting to push up 'The Wide' , Past any point of survivability, are almost one and the same ' skill' or trick?

No Michael, I think the analogy is that friction slabs are very different than regular face climbing (esp sport) as OW is to regular cracks.

OW/Flared Chimney is **very different** than hand or finger cracks. Totally different technique and muscle groups. More full body workout by far.

Same with slab v. steep face climbing. Slab is often more foot/toe strength than finger strength and your legs get more pump than your arms.

Both Slab/Wide can be difficult to protect. But one will test your nerves when dancing, the other when full body wedging...not the same at all.

ViperScale wrote: I have only climbed in yosemite a single week but the entire time I was there I only did 1 runout slab route (snake dike). I think we got on 1 other slab route but had plenty of gear placements in a crack going up it. Ran into a few offwidth sections but nothing to that long, given I have only climbed there a week but based on all the other things I want to climb there next time I got there it didn't seem like that much offwidth / slab climbing.

Next time go to Tuolumne, that will get you straight and then back to the valley for some "big fists"

Please Tut..no talk of flares...I'm getting dinner ready !

Michael Schneider wrote: Not choose a climb, or decline to try a route because of a section of some 'type' of climbing Ah,

Michael..... I think you get to the meat of the argument with this statement.

So many people say they want to learn "TRAD" (I do hate this term-- BITD-- it was "climbing") and then reject working on some type of climbing cause they don't like it, will never become really good at climbing.

I did a climb at the needles a few years ago, "Summer Sojourn", its a few hundred yards over from the ever popular "White Punks on Dope" if you ever hope to climb these two very moderate roots.... you will need to climb: Slab and Off-width.

WPOD is a bit easier... there is protection..four bolts on the slab and when you do the off-width part you get bomber gear down about 10 feet below when your starting the off-width part... the next 30 feet has no pro...

Summer Sojourn.... a unprotected 5.7 Off width.... and the next pitch is a slab... with only belay bolts and it goes at 5.cautious ..... don't fall.

So this is the way it is in climbing-- you can't fake your way around these barriers if you want to really climb things.

pretty good thread- Ted.

THX

Guy Keesee wrote: Michael..... I think you get to the meat of the argument with this statement. So many people say they want to learn "TRAD" (I do hate this term-- BITD-- it was "climbing") and then reject working on some type of climbing cause they don't like it, will never become really good at climbing. I did a climb at the needles a few years ago, "Summer Sojourn", its a few hundred yards over from the ever popular "White Punks on Dope" if you ever hope to climb these two very moderate roots.... you will need to climb: Slab and Off-width. WPOD is a bit easier... there is protection..four bolts on the slab and when you do the off-width part you get bomber gear down about 10 feet below when your starting the off-width part... the next 30 feet has no pro... Summer Sojourn.... a unprotected 5.7 Off width.... and the next pitch is a slab... with only belay bolts and it goes at 5.cautious ..... don't fall. So this is the way it is in climbing-- you can't fake your way around these barriers if you want to really climb things. pretty good thread- Ted. THX

Exactly !

There is no such thing as "trad"
there should be no such thing as "sport".
Climbing is climbing.
And it is all good,

a search, a journey of self exploration.

In Climbing The master of one discipline is a beginner.

What is up with this , Brit?!

USBRIT wrote: So all people in the world are climbers as most climb at times climb ladders or upstairs.

Yes,
Yes they are. if the subject of the sentence that is modified by the word used as an adverb is
engaged in moving up-wards, even downwards is coverd in the Oxford definition:(or it should be)

Climber

great to share with you. Have You farted yet this morning ?(other than that post I mean)

If not, have try - you seem a bit verklempt. . .

USBRIT wrote: So all people in the world are climbers as most climb at times climb ladders or upstairs.

Oh ree-eelly?

Paddies' day is over - get past your droll supercilious specifica! If you had not noticed
I'm on at Rock climbing web site. - are ya' dim?

Michael Schneider wrote: Exactly ! There is no such thing as "trad" there should be no such thing as "sport". Climbing is climbing. And it is all good, a search, a journey of self exploration. In Climbing The master of one discipline is a beginner.

So all people in the world are climbers as most climb at times climb ladders or upstairs.

I'm one of those slab climbers who is fearless on a runout slab but get nervous on an overhanging 5.10 sport route with bolts every 6 feet...

Here's a couple of key things I've discovered.

The most important is that a smear sticks in a range of force applied - not enough force, you slip, too much forcee slips. So you have to keep the force in the sweet spot. This is most noticeable in the trailing foot as you step up on a new foothold. Often the trailing foot will slip as you remove too much weight on it. So you have to be conscious of the force you are applying to BOTH feet, and leave enough force on the trailing foot to keep it stuck.

Practice this on a top rope - close your eyes and feel the spot where your trailing foot starts to slip, and the amount of force for the leading foot to stick. I also experiment with how steep/small smears I can stick too.

People say there are no handholds, but that's not true. Every smear that you use for your feet can be used to push on with your palm. Often these are so good you can rest your entire bodyweight on an palm smear directly underneath you.

One last thing I learned climbing in Oklahoma in the summer - temperature is important! 5.9 slab is a piece of cake for me, but I couldn't get off the ground on a 5.9 when it was in the mid 90's. Ran into the guidebook author and gave him grief about the "sandbagged" 5.9. He pointed out that temperature was important and we should try it when cooler. We tried it at 7 AM and sure enough, went right up it.

Turns out that climbing shoes are their best around 40 degrees - just the right combo of strength and stickiness. Perhaps this is why Tommy Caldwell did the Dawn wall in the winter so they could stick to those tiny footholds...

You are kidding yourself if you think trad or sport climbing doesn't exist. Trad is a style of climbing (whether you like the name or not) in which you use non-permanent gear placed to protect a fall (yes I know there are others who have other definitions of it but that is the most common). Sport is a type of climbing which tries to minimize any risk of falls and focus purely on climbing. Top rope is an even further focus on pure climbing than sport with the only risk being the rope / top anchor failing.

What do you want want to say if I walk up a slopped hill, am I climber now?

That's like saying there are no genres, only music. While technically true, it's also meaningless.

ViperScale wrote:What do you want want to say if I walk up a slopped hill I am a climber now?

Calm down, you're starting to stutter..........;)

Ted Pinson wrote:That's like saying there are no genres, only music. While technically true, it's also meaningless.

I've formed a theory that all thread drifts start with Ted, to prove my theory I'll post a reply arguing against his music genre analogy. I will then end up in an argument with ten other people on here that think Ska is not a sub-category of Jazz brought about by Jamaican influence in Memphis TN.

;) JB