Plant based lifestyle. Anyone?

Anyone concerned with Organic labels or GMO labels should read this long and excellent piece at Slate, if only to get a fuller picture of things:

slate.com/articles/health_a…

Jake Jones wrote: I see. Well, I'm certainly not a food scholar or a agriculture genius, but when I see things like this: "Put simply, if you see the "USDA Organic" or "Certified Organic" seal on your food, the item must have an ingredients list and the contents should be 95% or more certified organic, meaning free of synthetic additives like pesticides, chemical fertilizers, and dyes, and must not be processed using industrial solvents, irradiation, or genetic engineering, according to the USDA." I tend to think that there's a reasonable expectation that choosing "organic" means there will be less likelihood of ingesting chemicals that were used as pesticides. If I'm wrong, I'm certainly open to being educated.

I don't know where that quote came from, but it's rather misleading. Here's some clarification....

See: npr.org/sections/health-sho…

This excerpt below:
[ From: ocf.berkeley.edu/~lhom/orga… ]

Contrary to what most people believe, "organic" does not automatically mean "pesticide-free" or "chemical-free". In fact, under the laws of most states, organic farmers are allowed to use a wide variety of chemical sprays and powders on their crops.

So what does organic mean? It means that these pesticides, if used, must be derived from natural sources, not synthetically manufactured. Also, these pesticides must be applied using equipment that has not been used to apply any synthetic materials for the past three years, and the land being planted cannot have been treated with synthetic materials for that period either.

How do organic pesticides compare with conventional pesticides?

A recent study compared the effectiveness of a rotenone-pyrethrin mixture versus a synthetic pesticide, imidan. Rotenone and pyrethrin are two common organic pesticides; imidan is considered a "soft" synthetic pesticide (i.e., designed to have a brief lifetime after application, and other traits that minimize unwanted effects). It was found that up to 7 applications of the rotenone- pyrethrin mixture were required to obtain the level of protection provided by 2 applications of imidan.

It seems unlikely that 7 applications of rotenone and pyrethrin are really better for the environment than 2 applications of imidan, especially when rotenone is extremely toxic to fish and other aquatic life.

It should be noted, however, that we don't know for certain which system is more harmful. This is because we do not look at organic pesticides the same way that we look at conventional pesticides. We don't know how long these organic pesticides persist in the environment, or the full extent of their effects.

When you look at lists of pesticides allowed in organic agriculture, you find warnings such as, "Use with caution. The toxicological effects of [organic pesticide X] are largely unknown," or "Its persistence in the soil is unknown." Again, researchers haven't bothered to study the effects of organic pesticides because it is assumed that "natural" chemicals are automatically safe.

Just gonna put this out there.. since I might be the only one out there who is acttuly raising food and truly understand the impact of different scales of agriculture...we are all fucked.. learn to make panchetta.. nod support your local small farmer in what ever way you can...!! redbirdacresfarm.com

Ted Pinson wrote:...animals require significantly more resources (including more plants) to raise for food than plant cultivation, so even if your claim were true, vegetarian diets are still more sustainable from an ecological perspective.

The severe problem with that statement is that it assumes all land is fungible - it's not. Here in the west there are vast tracts of land that aren't suitable for cultivation but can support animal grazing. Yes, it takes 400 acres per cow, but consider the ecological impact of irrigating a 250K acre ranch to grow vegetables.

Also consider that if the majority of people are eating a vegetarian diet in a reasonably large population center, the majority of that plant food is coming to them from long distances, using mostly fossil fuel for transport. No, small local farms are not the answer due to the lack of economy of scale. Very little of the population is willing to pay Whole Foods prices for produce and grains.

Marc801 wrote: No, small local farms are not the answer due to the lack of economy of scale.

This is a super valid point that most don't recognize. One semi truck hauling a thousand households worth of strawberries 3000 miles across the country (3000 distribution miles) to the grocery store 1.5 miles from their homes (3000 more distribution miles) might make more sense than those thousand households each driving 10 miles (20,000 distribution miles) to Whole Foods or the farmer's market for "local" produce. Even considering mpg, etc., it's not as simple as "buy local". Local distribution is a huge part (majority?) of food miles. How far you drive to pick up your food can be more important than how far your food travelled to get to the grocery store.

Or just don't eat strawberries if the are not local, or in season ^

Marc801 wrote:No, small local farms are not the answer due to the lack of economy of scale. Very little of the population is willing to pay Whole Foods prices for produce and grains.

While small local farms may not be THE answer, they are a large part of it. Does anyone actually believe that farmers directly stocking their local grocery stores as much as possible is less holistically efficient than shipping the stuff a comparably far distance, including shipping to 'producers', warehouses, etc?

I have a gift for you then: upon you delivering copious riches to me, in person, your false assumptions will all be miraculously validated with real-world events.

JNE wrote: Does anyone actually believe that farmers directly stocking their local grocery stores as much as possible is less holistically efficient than shipping the stuff a comparably far distance, including shipping to 'producers', warehouses, etc?

I believe it. I mean I try to support local farmers where I live, and I'm a member of the CSA a couple miles from my home ( goldfinchgardens.com/ ). But the scale of agribusiness is staggering. I'll argue against the food system in America all day, but I won't argue against its efficiency

Jake Jones wrote: I see. Well, I'm certainly not a food scholar or a agriculture genius, but when I see things like this: "Put simply, if you see the "USDA Organic" or "Certified Organic" seal on your food, the item must have an ingredients list and the contents should be 95% or more certified organic, meaning free of synthetic additives like pesticides, chemical fertilizers, and dyes, and must not be processed using industrial solvents, irradiation, or genetic engineering, according to the USDA." I tend to think that there's a reasonable expectation that choosing "organic" means there will be less likelihood of ingesting chemicals that were used as pesticides. If I'm wrong, I'm certainly open to being educated.

Jake, and all, first, learn to cook. Shop local, ask the questions. If you know how it was raised, organic will change for you.

Grow your own.

If you are stuck shopping in a supermarket, use your money wisely. Do your research. Some stuff is far worse than others. I really, really, hate to say it (I'm in Idaho and can be shot for this), but commetcial potato fields are so toxic at harvest the fields are labeled with signs warning humans to stay out. English and Spanish, saw these with my own eyes.

If ethics matter, vote with your dollars. Is it ethical to be a vegan who buys the least expensive produce you can find? What about the humans exploited to produce that cheap crap?

Food has been losing it's nutritional value since the mid 70's. If it doesn't taste like kale, or tomatoes, or strawberries, or beef, the nutrition has departed.

Last, my page is the real deal. I graduated from high school in 1975, so my cook books include FIRST editions of Diet for a Small Planet, Laurel's Kitchen, Moosewood, etc., all the way up to Deborah Madison now.

I've been doing this for forty years. Watched the system go totally down the sewer, and, I am part of why it is turning around.

Best, Helen

Home cook, food prepper, gardener, backyard farmer, farmers market purchaser, founding member of Snake River Seed Growers Cooperative, active supporter of the Treasure Valley Food Coalition....on and on.

And love to eat!

Brian Abram wrote: I believe it. I mean I try to support local farmers where I live, and I'm a member of the CSA a couple miles from my home ( goldfinchgardens.com/ ). But the scale of agribusiness is staggering. I'll argue against the food system in America all day, but I won't argue against its efficiency

Efficiency which only makes sense with inherent and false assumptions like we should have foods like strawberries, or any other fruit or vegetable, when they are locally out of season. Yes, using local produce means waking up, looking around, and realizing that physical geographic location is a real-world constraint and parameter. I know, heavy stuff.

JNE wrote: Efficiency which only makes sense with inherent and false assumptions like we should have foods like strawberries, or any other fruit or vegetable, when they are locally out of season. Yes, using local produce means waking up, looking around, and realizing that physical geographic location is a real-world constraint and parameter. I know, heavy stuff.

Yep, I agree wholeheartedly (though "strawberries" was a stand-in for any produce)

Old lady H wrote:I really, really, hate to say it (I'm in Idaho and can be shot for this), but commetcial [sic] potato fields are so toxic at harvest the fields are labeled with signs warning humans to stay out.

You will find those same signs at organic farms as well.
All pesticides, "natural" or synthetic, are toxic and all require time before consumption to break down. Remember, it's the dose that makes the poison.

Regarding growing your own food: for most of us, it comes down to resource constraints. How much food could I grow for the two of us on a 600 sq ft plot (20' x 30' if I used every available part of our backyard)? What about all the people who have a 6' x 14' condo balcony?

I get a laugh out of those little Grow Your Own Herbs! gardens. One batch of pesto would wipe out the entire basil crop and still not be enough!

JNE wrote: Efficiency which only makes sense with inherent and false assumptions like we should have foods like strawberries, or any other fruit or vegetable, when they are locally out of season.

What about veggies that can't grow in your climate?

Marc801 wrote: You will find those same signs at organic farms as well. All pesticides, "natural" or synthetic, are toxic and all require time before consumption to break down. Remember, it's the dose that makes the poison. Regarding growing your own food: for most of us, it comes down to resource constraints. How much food could I grow for the two of us on a 600 sq ft plot (20' x 30' if I used every available part of our backyard)? What about all the people who have a 6' x 14' condo balcony? I get a laugh out of those little Grow Your Own Herbs! gardens. One batch of pesto would wipe out the entire basil crop and still not be enough!

They all need to move somewhere where they can find a big yard. I hear there's gonna be some nice homes with land across from Red Rock in Nevada soon. A little irrigation and voila

Yes.

Marc801 wrote: The severe problem with that statement is that it assumes all land is fungible - it's not. Here in the west there are vast tracts of land that aren't suitable for cultivation but can support animal grazing. Yes, it takes 400 acres per cow, but consider the ecological impact of irrigating a 250K acre ranch to grow vegetables. Also consider that if the majority of people are eating a vegetarian diet in a reasonably large population center, the majority of that plant food is coming to them from long distances, using mostly fossil fuel for transport. No, small local farms are not the answer due to the lack of economy of scale. Very little of the population is willing to pay Whole Foods prices for produce and grains.

That's because they're used to outrageously deflated prices due to the farm bill. What are those cows being fed? I can guarantee it's not grass, because that's not sustainable for mass consumption either (hence why grass fed beef is so much more expensive). Most animals raised for cultivation are fed a mixture of different grains, primarily of which is corn, which (you guessed it!) requires vast tracts of land (aka: the entire Midwest).

Marc801 wrote: You will find those same signs at organic farms as well. All pesticides, "natural" or synthetic, are toxic and all require time before consumption to break down. Remember, it's the dose that makes the poison. Regarding growing your own food: for most of us, it comes down to resource constraints. How much food could I grow for the two of us on a 600 sq ft plot (20' x 30' if I used every available part of our backyard)? What about all the people who have a 6' x 14' condo balcony? I get a laugh out of those little Grow Your Own Herbs! gardens. One batch of pesto would wipe out the entire basil crop and still not be enough!

Marc, not ALL your own stuff, unless that's your thing.

Dwarf peach tree growing between our house and the driveway cranked out a HUGE amount of peaches. The kind you wear short sleeves to eat, and lean over where the juice can drip on the lawn, and you make very rude slurping noises and don't give a shit what anyone thinks...

And. 30+ quarts are in the freezer, 30+ pints in the pantry. Hot peach crisp, with vanilla ice cream...

But hey, chia pet floats your boat, go for it!

OLH

Ted Pinson wrote: ... Most animals raised for cultivation are fed a mixture of different grains, primarily of which is corn, which (you guessed it!) requires vast tracts of land (aka: the entire Midwest).

They are also fed other cows and a bunch of other nastiness.

OLH you are making me miss my peach trees. I remember just as you describe. They made todays versions offered at the supermarket completely rediculous, bland and nasty in comparison.

I have been vegan for almost 2 years and I climb hard AF. I also lift, swim, and skate a bunch too. So try it out. Try and consume good clean carbs, fats, and protein sources. I always have energy since the majority of my Cals come from carbs. Plus my digestive system is on point too ;). Sometimes I do crave fish or meat, but never dairy products. In the end I always remind my self the good I am doing for our planet by living a vegan lifestyle. Good luck mane.
-CB

I just made a nice beef stew that is simmering. An onion, some garlic, a can of smoked porter, carrots, mushrooms, peas, salt & pepper, cayenne, mustard powder, a few fresh bay leaves off my tree; it smells damn good. Time to whip up some buttermilk corn bread.