Plant based lifestyle. Anyone?

Yeah, guilty as charged. I'm definitely more a gatherer than hunter, lol. If it came down to it, I'd probably just go vegetarian...not big on killing things.

H,

Still not sure what you are saying but if you are implying we need animal manure for crop fertilization that is incorrect. Plant-based compost is easy and quick to produce and is superior to manure. Manure must be composted otherwise the high nitrogen content can burn crops and it can be high in salts which, over time, will negatively affect soil. Currently, manure is a huge source of pollution contaminating fresh and salt water areas.

Ana,

I disagree that the current world population is inherently a problem. I think it comes down to lifestyle. Certainly, this planet cannot support 8 billion average Americans but if all people adopted vegan diets, utilized renewable energies, changed needless consumption practices, and ended war I think it is well within the Earth's capacity. Before humans killed everything off this planet sustained incredible amounts of diverse life forms and renewable/different technologies are only just beginning to be developed which can and will drastically change the way we live.

Jon,

As far as protein goes this is easy to search online for but nuts and seeds, grains, legumes, and most vegetables and fruits. Remember that complete protein is just a variety of amino acids and they don't need to be consumed at the same time as long as you get them throughout the day. Complete proteins are found in common combinations like a peanut butter sandwich or beans and rice.

Personally I use hemp seed protein powder which is a complete protein by itself. It is easily added to oatmeal, baked goods, and made into a smoothie. It's not ideal but I'll even add it to water just to get it done.

Since there is so much pontification here about moral superiority diets, I have to chime in. Human evolution occurred when our ape-ish ancestors would run their prey to exhaustion and eat them to get the necessary protein to develop higher brain function. Please don't forget that.

For a climbing diet, I recommend reading the nutrition section of New Alpinism and Horst's climbing book. Yes, Steph Davis has great articles on going Vegan too. I have eaten vegan food with her and she eats very well, however I can't comment on whether eating food like that in the long term would of been good for me.

So my advice is do real research and figure out what you need to stay active. I contemplated going vegetarian at one point and those references helped figure out how to do it, I ultimately decided not too because I wanted a quick and easy way to get sufficient protein.

With that being said, I'm really craving a Double-Double from In-N-Out...

Nivel Egres wrote:Altered Ego, If you are vegan, how do you think it influenced your climbing performance? What changes did you see when you switched? Seems like most successful vegan athlete stories are for endurance athletes, with a few exceptions. Do you find that your power suffered?

Yes it did.

Ted Pinson wrote:What Ego is saying isn't really in dispute...agriculture is overwhelmingly the #1 cause of climate change, mostly due to, hilariously enough, cow farts. (Methane is actually a much stronger greenhouse gas than CO2).

Actually, back in 2006-2007 Scientific America had an article that presented compelling evidence that plants produced a majority of methane, not four legged beasts. Methane isn't as prevalent in our atmosphere as CO2 is but has impact that I don't think is well understood by climate modelers. But this thread isn't about climate change.

In the last two years I've gone from being a heavy meat eater to having 1-2 servings of meat per week, most weeks. I'm not sure why it has to be an all or nothing issue. I'm very happy with the accompanying weight loss and haven't seen any increase in injury.

Nivel Egres wrote: Without trying to dispute the actual statement I have to point out that Scientific American is not a peer reviewed journal and, in that, is as reliable source of scientific information as NYT or Fox News.

I stand corrected in using that as a source however it doesn't make the article wrong especially considering that the article was based off a peer-reviewed paper saying that. I don't have the issue handy so I can't look it up from there. Even if plant life doesn't make up the possible 30% of methane production you still have marshlands with the established 22% that does. Micro-organisms fermenting inside the rectums of grazing animals isn't the primary source.

Nivel Egres wrote: Do you think it's due to lower protein intake or some other reasons? I only have a sample of one and the dude is certainly not suffering from lack of physical strength but he was vegan already when he started climbing so he could not really qualify how his diet affects his climbing.

One thing I didn’t do while I was vegan was having supplements. I was eating a lot more (in volume at least) because I did the change fast and was hungry all the time. Maybe the supplements are a must. The reduction in strength was more of a reduction in power. I did perform way better in climbing but started to feel with less energy the one you need to hike or stay in the cold, or do many pull ups or train hard. Maybe the strength never dropped but I certainly didn’t feel stronger. Just lighter which works for climbing.

jgfox wrote: Actually, back in 2006-2007 Scientific America had an article that presented compelling evidence that plants produced a majority of methane, not four legged beasts. Methane isn't as prevalent in our atmosphere as CO2 is but has impact that I don't think is well understood by climate modelers. But this thread isn't about climate change.

Given that it takes between 6 and 20 pounds of plants to make a pound of animal, this is a non-argument. If you think this means you should increase the number of animals you raise, that is dumb. The animals have to eat, and any increase in animal production necessarily means a huge increase in fodder production. It's all silly.

Intermediate climber here with experience as a long term climber (coming up on 20 years) and a long term vegetarian (since 1995).

I was a silly CF trainer from 2008-2014, and was competitive from 2008-2010 or so (2:45 Fran, 515 DL), before it got so big that you had to be a freak to be competitive. Eat dairy, eggs, and take fish oil as my biggest compromise. Prior to CF I was regularly day sending 5.12 at a lean 158 pounds. A year or two into CF, I got up to 189 and looked pretty much how a lot of truly competitive CFers look. Could only climb 5.10, a hole it took years to dig out of. Now projecting .13b/V9-10.

During the time I grew huge during CF, I ate a shitton of almond butter, eggs, protein powder post exercise, and especially Greek yogurt. I was totally convinced I needed 1g/lb lean mass.

Now I get about 100g/day by trying to eat something proteiny every meal (eggs, PB, protein powder post exercise). Feel fine and climbing and running as hard as I ever have

Brian Abram wrote: Given that it takes between 6 and 20 pounds of plants to make a pound of animal, this is a non-argument. If you think this means you should increase the number of animals you raise, that is dumb. The animals have to eat, and any increase in animal production necessarily means a huge increase in fodder production. It's all silly. Intermediate climber here with experience as a long term climber (coming up on 20 years) and a long term vegetarian (since 1995). I was a silly CF trainer from 2008-2014, and was competitive from 2008-2010 or so, before it got so big that you had to be a freak to be competitive. Eat dairy, eggs, and take fish oil as my biggest compromise. Prior to CF I was regularly day sending 5.12 at a lean 158 pounds. A year or two into CF, I got up to 189 and looked pretty much how a lot of truly competitive CFers look. Could only climb 5.10, a hole it took years to dig out of. Now projecting .13b/V9-10. During the time I grew huge during CF, I ate a shitton of almond butter, eggs, protein powder post exercise, and especially Greek yogurt. I was totally convinced I needed 1g/lb lean mass. Now I get about 100g/day by trying to eat something proteiny every meal (eggs, PB, protein powder post exercise). Feel fine and climbing and running as hard as I ever have

I wasn't arguing that adding additional agriculture/vegetation would upset the climate but just that plants probably add more methane than cows do so it a moot point to bring up cows in the first place.

Unrelated to methane, you make a good point that you are still using animal products, eggs, which is incompatible to a vegan lifestyle.

Eric Carlos wrote:Our digestive tract much more closely resembles that of a carnivore, such as a wolf, than that of a herbivore. Just eat a balanced diet of real food (without chemical additives).

Sorry if this was already mentioned (I stick clipped my way through this thread) but this is wrong. Human and herbivores' digestive tracks are roughly 10-12 times their trunk length while carnivores and omnivores' are 3-6 times their trunk length.

The latter is believed to be a evolutionary consequence of the body's need to quickly process and excrete food that rots. Additionally, the hycrochloric acid content of human stomachs is roughly 10 times less than that of carnivores resulting in about a 3-4 point higher pH. And if you're considering the mouth as part of the "digestive tract", a human's mouth contains alkaline digestive enzymes (like an herbivore) while carnivores' saliva does not.

...as you were...

Similar story to Brian - minus all the CF badassery. Been veg for over 20 years, and can outperform or at least keep up with most of my meat-eating friends. I prob don't get the proteins I'm recommended, but I don't feel any worse for it. Stay healthy most of the time, am fine with endurance stuff and multiple days on.

I supplement with b12 and maintain a healthy diet (low sugars, plenty of veggies and fiber).

I've only been a climber as a veg, but the diet keeps me lean and no prob staying strong. Maybe I'd be bulkier if I ate animals, but I can pull down harder in the reg gym than the muscle-y dudes on the lat machine, that's gotta say something.

FWIW I believe you have to find what fits with your body/beliefs - some folks decry the meat industry for the ethical/environmental issues, others it's effects on their bodies. Either way, I feel pretty good about my choices.

Nivel Egres wrote:Brian, very interesting. I am an aspiring vegetarian so it's good to hear success stories like that. Do you take any supplements?

In addition to climbing training 3 days/week, I run 3 days a week for a total of 4-6 hours/week on average, so my supplements may not be the same as yours. In the morning I take fish oil, multivitamin with iron, and magnesium. In the PM, I take fish oil and iron. The fish oil was a decision I deliberated a long time

jgfox,

It's not just cow farts, consider the entirety of the process. Slash and burn Amazon rainforests, use large scale petroleum dependent farming methods to produce feed, transport feed and finished products all over the world, cow farts, refrigeration and freezing for storage, the list goes on and it's not just cows but also pig, chicken, lamb, dairy and the entire seafood industry as well when we are talking about animal agriculture. Almost 50% of the land in the U.S. is utilized for animal agriculture, that is a huge loss of habitat for wildlife and plant life. Free range meats are even less sustainable.

Personal performance and how one feels is dependent on more than just diet. The life force comes to us in more forms than food. How we breath, hydration, diet, exposure to sunlight, spiritual practice and most importantly our mental state all play a role in our sense of wellness. For example, if someone is depressed their diet will do little for their performance. One of the biggest factors is our will power.

Mark lewin wrote:Anyone here on a plant based lifestyle? I'm paleo now but I'm thinking of going plant based. And when I say "going" I do not imply temporary. I do not believe in temporary lifestyles. How has plant based affected your climbing? More energy? Less energy? Thanks!!!

I think any lifestyle is temporary but perhaps indefinite... ie when you went paleo it was also temporary if you are switching to plant based from paleo, although at the time the paleo was indefinite.

First, I am glad you specified "plant based" and not "vegan" or "vegetarian". Not like it should matter what I think, but one of my biggest pet peeves are those who claim to be vegetarian or vegan, and then continue to eat seafood such as fish. To me that is hypocritical. Conveniently, they classify fish, marine animals, and even amphibians as "non animals". Reminds me of people classifying others as "subhuman." They justify it by saying fish don't feel.... but they have nerve endings, respond to stimulus, try to avoid getting eaten by sharks, and eyeballs are full of nerves.

In fact, the ways fish and marine animals such as lobsters are killed are even more cruel than killing cows and chickens. For instance Fish may be excited to eat the bait, and then instead they bite on a sharp hook which goes through their cheek, sometimes through their eye, as the hook drags their entire body weight out of the water (feeling heavier than they are used to) while they are thrashing about, and suffocating. Then oftentimes they are skinned / descaled with a knife while alive. Clams, crabs and lobsters are boiled alive, which is also not a good feeling. Of course if someone doesn't classify themselves as "vegetarian" or "vegan" then it is not so hypocritical.

Anyways I was a vegetarian for 4 years and it didn't impact my physical abilities. I wasn't climbing then though. The reason I stopped is because I was in college and didn't have anything to eat on Sundays when the cafeterias were closed, and my parents kept sending me beef jerky. After that, I couldn't call myself a vegetarian so just stopped. The biggest impact I find on my climbing is how much I weigh. I didn't lose weight as a vegetarian unless I restricted my calories. But as some other person said, try it and see how you feel. Maybe make an exception for the "non temporary" aspect and go on a trial basis with option of extension.

jgfox wrote: Actually, back in 2006-2007 Scientific America had an article that presented compelling evidence that plants produced a majority of methane, not four legged beasts. Methane isn't as prevalent in our atmosphere as CO2 is but has impact that I don't think is well understood by climate modelers. But this thread isn't about climate change.

Irrelevant. That would account for pre-existing levels, but not the rise in emissions and subsequent global mean temperature increase. Also, again, animals require significantly more resources (including more plants) to raise for food than plant cultivation, so even if your claim were true, vegetarian diets are still more sustainable from an ecological perspective. But yeah, you're right...this whole argument is irrelevant.

Jake Jones wrote:First, and most obvious, the food. Higher quality, cleaner, less chemicals,...

Since all food is made of chemicals, what do you mean by "less chemicals"?

Jake Jones wrote: Sorry. Let me clarify. Yes, everything is made of chemicals. I meant harmful, synthetic chemicals like pesticides. I ate organic as well. Now- I try to as much as I can but it's expensive.

Ah. BTW, organic doesn't mean no pesticides - not by a long shot. And not all pesticides are synthetic.

I have been vegetarian for more than 46 years, raw vegan for the last 4 years. I have an abundance of energy, my body weight is stable and I feel great. That said, I am struggling with my body composition (muscle/fat ratios). Not sure if it's because I am aging or if it's become I'm not ingesting enough protein.

Oh heck, i have to weigh in here. Been following this thread for its humor, or lack thereof.
Wife and i have an organic farm in Northern California. Been an organic farmer since before USDA co-opted, and destroyed, imho, the organic cert program.
Organic, and i will reiterate, i am a registered organic farmer, is a joke. There are so many ways around compliance.
To name 2 off the top of my head.
1) There are approx. 8,000 "USDA organic" sources in China. And 2 inspectors (as of the last time i checked in 2013). Two inspectors for 8k sources? In the country where melamine was added to milk? Ya....
2)The largest supplier of "USDA certified" compost around here is a concern which takes dairy waste and 'composts' it. One of the most drugged industries, dairy cows. And how do you compost this shit? You let it sit on the ground for 120 days....that's it, and voila, magic, it's organic.
Many more horror stories, and i know this is off the oh so wonderful topic, just thought i'd share.
And don't forget, Oreos are vegan....
:)