Did you choose climbing over a better career?

TBH when i was younger I rarely climbed... I knew I wasnt a pro, I wasnt getting paid, and climbing was not putting food on my table.

Remember where your comfort comes from. Not wanting to work a 40 hr a week job seems ridiculous to me, be happy you have a job - I graduated in 2007 right before the Economy tanked and watched everyone around me get laid off... you know why they kept me? Because i worked hard, i did the little extra, demonstrated my worth and now I am much more comfortable and have a more flexible schedule because of the time i put in up front.

Climbing is not the end game here, its an outlet for your mind and body. Its a challenge that you place unto yourself and you dictate what you get out of it.

There is a trade off obviously and i hope you find what you are looking for. There were several times that i wish i took time off after college to travel, but given the job market at the time I am glad I did not.

Good luck bud.

I had a pretty intense job for a while. It paid well and was relatively prestigious, but I wasn't happy in the role and always wanted lower stress and more time to get outside. So, I left that job and am pursuing something more consistent with how I want to live my life. Like others on here indicated though, I will look for balance--something that sets me up for a modest but sustainable lifestyle throughout my life.

I think people who love something--climbing, writing, basket-weaving, whatever--are the lucky ones. Most people never find something they love as much as climbers love climbing. When you don't have a passion for something, you make up the difference in nice clothes, expensive entertainment, and other small pleasures, but when you love something, you don't really need all that. I sometimes think that I should be more ambitious or quest after ever ascending titles like my peers, but then I remember that the path they are on is a function of the fact that they've got nothing else they'd rather do. I do.

True. I definitely wouldn't live paycheck to paycheck ever. I think it's totally possibly to make enough money and climb a lot. Have a job which allows you to get ahead and develop some savings for emergencies and such, because if not you will just be too stressed to climb anyway, always trying to figure out how to survive is no fun. I have friends that worked really hard for a few years and made personal sacrifices to get ahead and are now able to work less at non-professional careers and climb more. Everyone figures it out in their own way...

On a different note, I have never regretted spending money on traveling and I am so grateful for those opportunities. Those experiences made me so happy.

Derp just saw it.

Looks like you chose a 9/5 lifestyle career with your degree. Might have to change paths. Consider medical school or nursing, depending on how much lifestyle matters to you. You can have a great career in medicine and climb a lot, thank god for highly paid shift work!

Alternatively, and I really really do not recommend this but you can get your feet wet in medicine by becoming a medic, working for a bit, see if you like it to inform your next move. Would also give you an interesting perspective on the devices field which could be attractive to an employer.

Or go to grad school, use summers & breaks to climb between projects

Good luck

Dottie wrote: I think people who love something--climbing, writing, basket-weaving, whatever--are the lucky ones. Most people never find something they love as much as climbers love climbing. When you don't have a passion for something, you make up the difference in nice clothes, expensive entertainment, and other small pleasures, but when you love something, you don't really need all that. I sometimes think that I should be more ambitious or quest after ever ascending titles like my peers, but then I remember that the path they are on is a function of the fact that they've got nothing else they'd rather do. I do.

That's a really great point you just made. I think climbers are a rare breed - they so intensely value their hobby, their sport, that most of them are willing to create an entire lifestyle around it. Once I discovered climbing, I quickly realized I did not want to give it up for a job that could give me, like you said, nice clothes, car, small pleasures, etc. I wanted to be able to work, live a simpler life, and have my spending money go toward gear and travel for climbing. I loved how you worded that all, it really makes sense.

kzurriola wrote: I just posted a brief description in an above comment after the 'david grabowski' quote (sorry it's a little hidden)!

Yup, just saw that and deleted my question.

kzurriola wrote: I'm just stuck on how to find that job that balances work & climbing life.

I can't comment on how to find that in your field, but I'll state again that the first and most important step is to relocate. For a given schedule (be it working 20, 40, or 60 hours a week), the closer you are to good climbing, the more you will be able to get out. It is not a perfect solution, but it helps make the working life more reasonable.

It is a good idea to try to develop a skill set in a field that is in demand in the places you want to live. In something medical devices, you may be mostly limited to jobs in major industrial/tech hub cities. In something like medical administration, you may have more options in smaller "climbing towns", since there are hospitals everywhere. There's a balance in what you want to do vs. where you want to be.

Lastly, do realize that most people end up with something they don't like when they first get out of school. It seems like most "entry" level jobs still want 2-3 years experience. There is a big bottleneck to get that experience, so you pretty much have to take anything you can get. Once you get that experience, your options open up significantly. It may be worth toughing it out for a couple years to gain good skills and references so that you can jump to something better.

Medic741 wrote:What's your degree in // what are you professionally passionate about?

I have a business administration & marketing degree with a minor in environmental studies. My past experiences and current employment are with medical device / biotech companies (a personal interest because of a father in biomed). I also have graphic design experience. I'd love to work in anything med device/health & wellness or outdoor/sustainability/environmental sciences related (retail would also be fine if it was REI/Black Diamond/Patagonia/etc). I'm more focused on marketing communications, not necessarily sales or management.

JCM wrote:In something like medical administration, you may have more options in smaller "climbing towns", since there are hospitals everywhere. .

It's funny you say that because I ended up turning down a marketing & communications job for a hospital in a town I would have rather lived in, for a higher paying, medical device job in a more metropolitan area, and now I'm unhappy. That is a really good point that hospitals are everywhere and I could easily relocate to a place I'd rather be with that kind of job instead of the one I currently have. Thank you for that insight! That was really helpful.

I had the same thoughts as you. My solution was to start my own company so I "didn't have to work 40 hours a week" and could "climb whenever I wanted." Well, funny thing is now I work 60-70 hours a week (was 80 for a few years) and have no salary. On the bright side, running my company challenges me in ways that a job for someone else never did, and as a result I have found that I don't need to climb as much. I am getting my fix of being scared and tired from business rather than climbing!

There are plenty of industries where you can start a "lifestyle business" but turns out, mine is not one of them.

kzurriola wrote:I ended up turning down a marketing & communications job for a hospital in a town I would have rather lived in, for a higher paying, medical device job in a more metropolitan area, and now I'm unhappy.

You can always go back to them and say, guys I screwed up I want to work for you instead. At the very least there's no harm in asking.

Though, your career is worth thinking about too. If it was just about pay, sure take a paycut to live where you want. But you spend 40 hours a week at your job- will you be happy working marketing & comms? Did you love it to pieces in college, or barely get out alive? Do you dislike your medical devices job, or just your location?

D-Roc wrote:Climbing is not the end game here

You said it so I have to ask, what is the end game? Because money is not the end game either. I think you have to find what makes you happy and do everything you can to continue to do that in an appropriate capacity for you. Money is simply a means to an end, but climbing could be someone's end game.

"There is no more fatal blunderer than he who consumes the greater part of his life getting his living."
-Henry David Thoreau

Wall-O-Text warning, proceed with caution -

I'm here to tell you: You CAN have it both ways. Lots of people have done it, and some of the most successful climbers I know are also successful professionals in their career.

Short version of my story: Engineering degree. Graduated, worked 1.5 years quit and went climbing for a year. Took 6mo to find another job, worked 3 years and quit again to go climbing. 18mo of climbing, a few months to find another job, back to work for two years. Quit again, went climbing for a year. Few months job hunting, then back to work for 5 years now. Changed jobs this spring and will be financially independent and finished with professional work in another 3 years (actually about 30mo).

Every time you leave the workforce and return as a white collar professional, it will get harder and harder to find work. Employers recognize from your history that you are not inclined to settle in for the long term. This isn't a big deal in your 20s or early 30s. It is a huge deal by your late 30s.

If you are a gregarious, social animal type, spend enough time and energy building a network of professional contacts. I am an introvert by nature, work in supervisory/leadership roles, and don't have as good of a network as I should. It's draining to me, I don't enjoy it, but it will be very important if you are in-n-out of the workforce.

I work in the public sector, and that has been a godsend in many ways. It is much easier to go in and out of the public sector (once you have experience and career tenure) than competing for private sector jobs once you're showing "gaps" in the resume. It also allows me to have transportable benefits, a defined benefit pension, and ample opportunities to change area/location or job/position. And I don't work more than 40hr, sure as hell ain't working on the weekend, get every other Friday off, and 5 weeks paid vacation per year. That's in addition to paid sick leave and 10 paid holidays. In other words, a full five day workweek is very rare for me, the norm is more like 4 days. Last year I went to work <200 days.

After 15 years in the system, I earn great benefits and a pretty good salary. Pay is maybe 10-20% lower than equivalent private sector jobs, but the benefits and work hours more than make up for it. Five weeks paid? Almost unheard of in the private sector (and even if you earned that much, it would be career suicide to take it when your colleagues are clocking 60-70hr weeks). And that accrual rate never goes down, even if I take a totally different job in the system and/or work for a different agency.

At some point, you have to make money and build a nest egg. The sooner you get busy on that, the sooner you can get out of the workforce altogether. I will be retired from "real" work by age 47, with no debt and the nest egg built, with enough passive investment income to cover my expenses (which are very low, I still live like a college kid, drive used cars, etc). I didn't really start pounding on the finance/debt/savings angle until I was 30yo and 50k in debt from college loans.

So I quit lots of jobs, often in heated circumstances and burning the bridge behind me as I left (I am abrasive and confrontational by nature). I took 12-18mo off several times, and never stayed in a single position longer than ~5 years. Yet I have climbed the professional ladder, and there are literally only two rungs higher on the civil service salary tables, so my corporate-ladder climbing days are over. Even if I had fully focused on career to the expense of my personal passions, I wouldn't have risen much higher or faster. I did it all wrong, yet I will be comfortably retired and climbing, biking, and fishing full-time while still young enough to enjoy it.

Meanwhile, my career-focused friends and colleagues are chained to the job until their mid 60s. Because they had kids, bought expensive big houses and cars, took $5k vacations to the Bahamas, have a boat, jet ski, etc.

Looking back on it, when climbing my hardest I was also working (when on permanent climbing vacation I onsighted better and moved better, but was weaker overall).

kzurriola wrote:I'm a recent college grad; found a job, moved away, blah blah blah...and I hate it. I understand most salaried jobs can be slightly longer hours than standard 8-5 M-F but it's getting ridiculous and cutting into climbing time, both nights and weekends. I know I went through college for a reason and would love to put my skills to use but I don't want a job that is going to restrict my ability to climb. Would love to hear some other stories about those that have sacrificed high paying jobs to move to better climbing/outdoors, but still maintained a career somehow?

I live down the street from you in San Juan Capistrano. You live in THE SUBURBIA of America. Don't get disillusioned with this easy life. You want to start out with a high paying career for a few years, get enough experience then play around. At 35, I can tell you that it sucks not to be able to make money, fast. You don't want to be that guy making $40k a year in some crappy job in your 30s.

To give you a bit of background on my career path, I graduated with a degree in accounting and worked in an investment firm for 5 years. Ever since I've taken a year off, worked one year then took 3.5 years off. Now I'm working on an 18-month contract that's about to end and then I'm going to take another 1-2 years off. Having the experience from my first 5 years at a major bank/investment firm allowed me to do what I do now, which is financial consulting. When I do work, I work a whole year without taking one day off. When I don't work, I just fuck off for a long time. :)

This type of work/life balance, if you could call it that, works for me and allows me to climb and travel extensively around the world. Again, having experience and skills in a high paying career is extremely important. Living frugally is also as important. Even if I make six figure in my job, I'm still eating pb&j and dirtbag camp as much as possible.

And lastly let me know if you want to head out to climb.

I became an RN at 36 and work in a busy ER which makes the three days/week that I work go by quickly. The four days off are gravy because I always feel that I earn it. The work is demanding and stressful, but very rewarding. It pays well, and there is a multitude of career paths to chose from. You can work from home or an a cruise ship, the possibilities are numerous. With that said, Nursing isn't for everyone and the training isn't as easy as some people might think. Patients deserve great nurses, not just people who want a good job.

Anyhow, lots of time for climbing and the ability to afford it:)

kevin trieu wrote: You don't want to be that guy making $40k a year in some crappy job in your 30s.

The problem with this thinking is that it makes people think that $40k isn't enough to live on, when in reality, some people can make that and still bank 10-15k per year, while climbing a ton AND traveling. Not getting rich but not hurting either.

Brady3 wrote: You said it so I have to ask, what is the end game? Because money is not the end game either. I think you have to find what makes you happy and do everything you can to continue to do that in an appropriate capacity for you. Money is simply a means to an end, but climbing could be someone's end game.

I never mentioned anything about money in my post, my point was that climbing isnt life or death. Its part of lifestyle and the amount of impact depends on the individual (how much he or she decides to climb).

My advice: if you are in your early 20s, you should have the energy to work 50-60 hours a week, climb at the gym twice a week, travel every weekend to climb, party hard, and still travel internationally 2 weeks a year. Suck all the marrow out, and sleep when you are dead or after 35. Max out your 401k and bias towards the career early on. It will set you up to make fulfilling career choices later, pick where you want to live, and who you want to work for. I wouldn't put up with the weekend work though, unless you are a banker and really making serious money.

The dirtbag lifestyle seems inspiring, but it will catch up with you if you don't have incredible fiscal disciple or a helluva nest egg.

Great comment from Will S.

Will S wrote: I will be retired from "real" work by age 47, with no debt and the nest egg built, with enough passive investment income to cover my expenses (which are very low, I still live like a college kid, drive used cars, etc). ...Meanwhile, my career-focused friends and colleagues are chained to the job until their mid 60s. Because they had kids, bought expensive big houses and cars, took $5k vacations to the Bahamas, have a boat, jet ski, etc.

This is huge. Keeping your expenses down and your savings rate up will give you much more freedom to choose the lifestyle and career path you want. Debt and expensive tastes are a ball and chain. For inspiration and advice on this front, see mrmoneymustache.com. Read everything written there.

It's a grass is always greener situation I think. I bummed around in my early 20s and I only somewhat regret it. I'm currently 29 and I went back to school about 10 months ago. Not sure if I would choose the same path if I were to be given the option of a do-over.

I think overall though I'd rather be in a decent career trying to find time to climb than climbing all I want and scrounging for money.