Gym Rating Soft?

After working in the gym industry and specifically routesetting for a number of year I can definitely say lots of gyms grade easier because it's what most (not all) of the customers want. People complain when they can't get the grade they think they are able to do. When people complain about grades being hard it means they are less happy therefore less likely to keep climbing at that gym, you see how this all works right? So since gym climbing is in MANY ways a different sport than sport of trad outside, why not let the gym climbers have a grade set of their own and help gym's stay in business.

Many customers outright (though often unknowingly till prompted) want grades in the gym to be soft. Again, this is not true for every customer.

I have always felt that gym grades are easier as well, but I always felt that it was because of the inherit nature of making an artificial wall. Confession, I learned to climb in a small gym, but maybe that is why I noticed the following.

First when you climb in a gym ever hold protrudes making it easy to spot. Second the hold is bright colored plastic, making every one, even the small ones easy to to spot. On real rock that small hold that you need, you may not find, on plastic you will almost always find it. Third the feet almost always seem to be bigger for the grade. Fourth and maybe most important, when I look at a piece of plastic I know what the shape is, I know the texture, I know how to hold that hold just by looking at it. Its never that way on real rock. If you have ever reached for what you thought was the jug you needed for a rest to only find a sloper you know what I'm talking about. Fifth gym routes are design to make you move a certain way, to teach you something. Real rock demands that knowledge from you.

Because of these things I feel that gym routes tend to be more physical at the grade and demand less technique and skill. But get on a 5.10 jug haul and limestone and a 5.10 plastic jug haul, and I think the grades tend to match up pretty good.

In my opinion, Andy Shoemaker seems to come closest to the truth of the matter. In many gyms around the country, it's an informal business decision. At some of them, it's even an open secret that this is done on purpose.

And I agree that the disparity often falls somewhere between 1 and 2 number grades of difference for routes that require similar movement, size and shape of hold, body positions and techniques needed to climb efficiently, and so on. If you don't spend a lot of time outside, you might not ever realize that this disparity can exist.

I could cite examples, including a particularly onerous one currently on the wall at my current gym, but the crux of it is I am not a V4-5 boulderer at Hueco despite being able to flash things with that label on them at the gym. That sort of is useful information for a climber to know, but it requires getting outside more until you can evaluate your progression honestly for yourself.

Grades are all over the place in both the same gym or in the same climbing area. Sport Park is only .5 miles from Castle Rock and the only difference is in my head right?

Forget the grades and get better footwork it will make the gym and real rock feel more even rated.

I've noticed that the difficulty of the grades in the gym varies from month to month, both BRC & Movement change routes about once a month. It might be me but i do like it, it makes progressing in grades easier.

Jon Nelson wrote: Alas, now both indoors and out are equally unfamiliar...

haha this!

JulianG wrote:Grades are all over the place in both the same gym or in the same climbing area. Sport Park is only .5 miles from Castle Rock and the only difference is in my head right?.

True, and this is an example of history. Like if I climb a Layton Kor 5.7-5.8 I probably expect to struggle and shit my pants from exposure every time. Sport park is grid bolting at it's best.

Sorry to revive a very old thread. Only recently, I read or heard somewhere that gym ratings are kept intentionally soft so that they make people feel good and attract them to return. The theory is if a climber finds themselves sending only 5.11s in Gym A but 5.12s in Gym B, they are more inclined to return to Gym B. If that's the case, I'm assuming that there is a race to the softest grades among gyms. Personally, I don't subscribe to the conspiracy theory, but I have indeed noticed that the rope climbing grades appear to have gotten even softer lately in the gyms I visit. I have voted to downgrade some in Kaya app just to keep it more real, but I'm just about to give up.

Today's accident thread got me thinking about gym ratings, and this thread came up as most relevant in the forum search. The accident is what compelled me to make this post. I personally do not boulder, but I've been around long enough to know that not all V1's outside are safe for me even though I can onsight every single one in the gym if I bothered. When a boulderer can routinely send, say, V4's in the gym, are they guaranteed to send every V1 outside? Probably not even though stepping down by 3 grades seems conservative already. These days, tons of people got into climbing in the gym first before they venture outside, which makes it difficult to objectively evaluate one's ability until more experience is gained. Difficulty aside, there is also the environment difference (gym floor vs pads) and skilled spotting (almost nonexistent in gym these days). Soft gym rope climbing rating only leads to bruised ego when climbers start going outdoors, but soft gym bouldering rating sounds down right dangerous! 

I'm in no delusion that this post/thread would make a difference in the decision making in gyms around the country, but still, maybe something to think about, gym owners and setters? 

I just read the accident report, and feel that the softness of gyms is not the root cause of the issue. When you buy any climbing gear, there is one commonality on the packaging which is they all say something like "climbing is inherently a dangerous sport, participate at your own risk". The climbers in the accident were not climbing in a way which respects the danger inherent to what they were doing, and they suffered the consequences for it. To be clear, I am not saying they deserved what happened, accidents suck. However, I have climbed heavenly path every time I go to bishop, and a fall from the top as described in the accident report would mean they fell well after the crux, on V0 territory. Climbing is already dangerous, and highballs even more so, and choosing to do them in an altered state of mind (smoking weed), probably for the first time, and without spotters, has infinitely more to do with the issue than the actual hardness of the climb. 

5.12 in your gym is like 5.8+ in my gym.

V8 in your gym, is V3 in my gym.

Yes, I climbed the pink one in the corner. Top rope onsight. 

Gym in my area recognized the problem and grade their boulders using a separate metric (G1, G2, etc.)

I can't speak to whether it makes sense, because the very next question they probably get asked is "so what's that in V grades?"

Highball bouldering is more akin to free soloing and it should be approached like that. Regardless of the grade, if you fall it will have some sort of consequence.