Oval Biners on a TR anchor?

As far as caribiners go I use 4 locking oval caribiners when setting a top rope anchor off of bolts. One attached to each bolt and then two opposite and opposed at the master point. Does anybody feel that it is unsafe to use solely locking ovals on a sliding x anchor with two slings.

Unsafe? Not really. Could it be better? Yep, by removing the sliding X

Not sure why you're asking about the oval lockers...no worries there. Sliding X with 2 slings is fine, although somewhat pointless. Honestly, you would be fine with 2 opposite/opposed quickdraws, lockers if you want to overkill.

Billy Clyde wrote:As far as caribiners go I use 4 locking oval caribiners when setting a top rope anchor off of bolts. One attached to each bolt and then two opposite and opposed at the master point. Does anybody feel that it is unsafe to use solely locking ovals on a sliding x anchor with two slings.

I'd like to hear your own feelings on what is the failure point of this anchor and why it's the oval biners?

Personally, The sliding X is fine on two solid bolts, but then again, if both bolts are solid, why bother with a sliding X?

You could use two long quick draws, a quad anchor, a masterpoint anchor, etc. All would be perfectly safe.

Oval biners are weaker but you aren't placing more than at absolute most a few kN on them, and likely less. So everything in your system is redundant and sufficient.

Billy Clyde wrote:As far as caribiners go I use 4 locking oval caribiners when setting a top rope anchor off of bolts. One attached to each bolt and then two opposite and opposed at the master point. Does anybody feel that it is unsafe to use solely locking ovals on a sliding x anchor with two slings.

Just out of curiosity, what prompts you to ask a question like this? Apparently you haven't killed yourself yet so did something concern you?

Was doing some reading and found that oval biners are not as strong as d shaped. Also that they are primarily designed for aid climbing. I just wanted to make sure that I had the equipment really dialed in so that I can make the best anchor I can. Also I do think the sliding x is the best choice in the way that I was using it for the dude that made the comment about that. The two slings are definitely overkill though I agree but it can't hurt.

Thanks for the input everyone, definitely appreciate the knowledge.

They're not a bad idea, but not necessary if he's using 2 slings IMO. While this would technically not be non-extending, it would at least be redundant, which is the main concern with a sliding X. With limiter knots, you end up with a longer setup than just tying a masterpoint, while an X with 2 slings is pretty quick. Still unnecessary for a toprope anchor, but hey...

Unfortunately the only benefit of the sliding X is the self equalization. Extension, however, offsets that..

OK, I understand now, if one sling breaks the second is still self equalized so no extension.

However, what if bolt A blows, you now have an increased load on bolt B.

Also, might want to do some research on the sliding X, it doesn't self equalize instantly. Play around with it. There is momentary near 100% load on a single anchor during shifts to the left or right.

Overall, not as magical as the name implies.

I use two locker ovals opposite and opposed on the rope side of the anchor. I find that they the wear much less than d-shaped lockers which keeps your rope much cleaner (less black aluminum dust).

Two opposed draws, climb.

J. Serpico wrote:Unfortunately the only benefit of the sliding X is the self equalization. Extension, however, offsets that..

Another benefit is that you don't have any knots in your slings. Knots are proven to weaken slings, but in the event of a bolt breaking, having extension adds load to your remaining bolt. I wouldn't say one method is always safer than the other.

Why two slings? Do you have two identical sliding X's?

Ovals have a strength of about 18 kN, about 5 kN less than a D carabiner. However, a top rope only has about 2 kN of force on it. So each carabiner only has 1 kN of force to resist.

There are many climbs put up safely on ovals before the D carabiner was developed.

Testing in the SAR community shows that sliding X can lock up and not equalize when shock loaded and put most of the load on one of the anchors, but probably not a concern on a top rope.

I prefer an equalette - better equalization and minimal extension if one anchor fails.

The whole conversation is way over the top relatively to safety and risk assessment. Two opposing draws are entirely adequate for a TR anchor on two solid bolts. If you're paranoid use a locker somewhere in the mix. If the anchor bolts aren't solid then you shouldn't be TRing off it, otherwise all the rigs being discussed are lead anchor setups and completely unnecessary for a typical TR.

As far as 'unsafe' and your primary risk goes, you'd be way better off worrying about each other's belaying and making sure that's solid than worrying about the anchor rig.

For top rope bolts, I use two ovals opposed. I always use a third anchor backup if I can. Been doing this for 36 years....I like the third oval idea too.

I usually use a sling x config with another nonloaded sling through the ovals anchored with a cam, stopper or sling around a rock or something.

Nick Howell wrote:Unsafe? Not really. Could it be better? Yep, by removing the sliding X

Removing the sliding X does not improve this anchor, it weakens it by removing equalization. Your set-up is good. You've achieved redundancy by using two slings. If you are comfy with it, don't change anything.

As others have suggested, two quick draws on the top of a sport climb is a bit simpler and quicker. If you're going to park all day and run laps, your rig is perhaps better. A cordelette tied into a quad is another option and something you can pre-rig on the ground, it'll save you time at the anchor.

Crazy how these explosions can explode!

Did you mean conversations?

Also, a sliding X can be pre-tied with limiter knots and is just as quick, and pointless, as a pretied quad or equalette.

Yes, conversations. Explosions explode too though. Long day.

I use more extensive set-ups with fatter biners (better at taking the wear) with toprope groups. Otherwise draws at the top of sport pitches.

Scott E. wrote:I have my 1" webbing sling pre-tied in a sliding X with limiter knots with biners already attached before I start the climb. Clip the anchor lockers of the pre-tied sliding X - with limiter knots - sling set-up together over your shoulder and it is super quick and easy to setup the top rope anchor. (Credit to Eric Sopheia for this technique. Thanks Eric.)

Kind sir Scott, a photo or drawing for the textually impaired, please? Sounds good, hence let it be seen, thanks (I believe I've seen this method, so just want to confirm).
P.S. some explosions conversate [sic]

Scott E. wrote:AMGA advocates three non-locking ovals, with the gates opposed and reversed, or two lockers at the master point on a top rope anchor.

3? really?