Diagram question please help

Okay there is a little hidden gem bluff. I know top rope anchor basics and and am very similar using natural protection as that's what I mainly use. at this hidden gem I found there is two tiny trees I don't really trust them enough like the diagram above, however there is a place I can jam a pink and red tricam. Now my question is with my set up i used 1" webbing not static rope and I used on the left double bowline to my first figure 8 master point I then put in another figure 8 a foot away too make 2 master points and then I go to the next tree I used a seperete piece of webbing which is wrap 3 pull two I connect to a carabiner which meets my figure 8 on a bight( takes place of the clove hitch in photo) now in my v like the photo above I have an spot I can place two tricams how can I successfully incorporate them in this set up

Treat it like a cordalette

Instead of treating it like an open loop, fix either end to the outside most anchor points and clip a bight into the center anchor point and bring it all together with an overhand or fig-8 on a bight.

alternately you can equalize the 2 trees and use that as one leg, and use the 2 tricams as a second leg depending on how far apart the anchor points are

Never thought of that^ so if I place my tricams with slings, use an overhand knot to equalize my two tricams and bring the slings to an overhand or fig 8 to a master point it is safe to bring that master point to my webbing master points?

^Frightening reply.

You may consider reading/studying/checking-out Climbing Anchors by John Long and Bob Gaines, or Rock Climbing Anchors by Craig Luebbens.

Christ, you should just move somewhere with decent climbing

CRAG-list-KILLA wrote:Never thought of that^ so if I place my tricams with slings, use an overhand knot to equalize my two tricams and bring the slings to an overhand or fig 8 to a master point it is safe to bring that master point to my webbing master points?

As Nathan was inferring, you should take a top rope anchor course and get proper instruction on how to build anchors. Obviously, this is not something you want to do incorrectly.

Me and 2 buddies already have a class scheduled for April 9-10th I'm just trying to get as much constructive criticism so I can practice building different anchor and different placements before I go, I want to get corrected by the guide on my knowledge on what I feel comfortable from me already setting up safe and solid bomber natural anchors which I have done so and have stated so in the original comment. My question was adding passive or active gear to a natural anchor already built anchor. I'm asking for help not to be shot down, I did not say I was going to attempt to climb on this anchor so I don't get why everyone insists on jumping on someone's case and totally ignoring the question. And I know for a fact that there was a time when everyone of you didn't know everything. It's sad how just because one person has a question they a total idiot.

@Crag-list-killa:

There's certainly nothing wrong with asking questions, and you should certainly do so. What the others' replies mask with what could be interpreted as disdain is in fact a concern for your safety.

The nature of your question and your subsequent reply indicates that you have little background knowledge or experience with the subject (top rope anchor building). Consequently, any advice given over the internet, particularly without pictures/diagrams, could be easily misinterpreted and result in a catastrophic failure leading to your untimely death.

For this reason, if you search the many beginner anchor-building forum posts on mountain project you'll note a similar theme. That is, little real advice is given because doing so is tedious, time consuming, and open to misinterpretation. The most common responses are either something akin to the classic "yer gonna die" or to seek in-person instruction.

To be frank, the best answer is to seek in-person instruction, which I'm glad to hear you plan to do. In-person instruction allows room for real-time questions as they apply to the myriad scenarios possible at many different climbing sites. That said, I can also appreciate the desire to make the most of your day with a guide by maximizing your background knowledge. The recommendation to read John Long's Climbing Anchors book is quite apt.

amazon.com/Climbing-Anchors…

Another good option that explores top roping anchors specifically is the AMGA Single Pitch Instructor manual (though this includes a much wider range of topics as well):

amazon.com/Rock-Climbing-Si…

Finally, to answer your question directly:

Yes, if you build a two-point anchor from your two tricams, you could then incorporate this into a greater anchor that utilizes other components (such as the two small trees you mention). If you treat each tree as a single anchor component and the two tricams as one component, you have a three component anchor. As alluded to upthread, one way to configure this anchor would be using a "snake runner" setup, similar to (though not precisely the same as) the photo below:

You could use webbing or static rope for this purpose, though using a static rope allows you the option of creating a protection system for yourself to approach the edge while creating your anchor.

Best advice is to keep it simple. Mistakes are far more likely to happen if you overly complicate things.
That being said, I'm not in the business of building top-rope anchors, but four points is excessive in my opinion.
Find 2 or 3 bomber placements (if these don't exist it's probably a bad top rope area) and do that cordelette set-up diagrammed above.
Extend as necessary.
Simple, easy to check.

You already have the webbing and carabiners correct? Clip the carabiners to something (a chair, table, bed, anything you can this is just for practice) and try tying your anchor. If you are wanting to have an anchor with 4 pieces then tie it that way with a carabiner for each of those "pieces." Once you get it tied then pull on it and see how it weights each leg. Once you have it generally equalized (perfect equalization is largely impossible), then try un-clipping one of the points and see how the anchor reacts. This is what will happen if that piece fails or that leg of webbing gets cut, do this with each of the pieces. Avoid set ups that will create a shock load on the other pieces if one does fail, if the whole system fails from one piece failing then that is not a redundant anchor.

If I were tying an anchor with four pieces I would tie the ends to each of the outer two pieces then tie a clove hitch to the middle two such that I have three loops coming down a little past where the master point will be. Adjust the clove hitches to even out the loops and adjust one end if the webbing is too long. Once you have it equalized then hold all three loops together and tie an overhand knot with all of them acting as one rope (this is more specifically called a Big Fricken Knot [BFK] or BHK). This should leave you with a big know that has six strands coming out the top that go to the pieces (1 to each outer piece and 2 to each of the middle pieces) and three loops coming out the bottom. Clip your carabiners that the rope will run through to all of those three loops and you're good.

Whether you are using natural anchor points or gear pieces shouldn't matter much for the anchor system. Just make sure they are strong enough. A common method for this is making the anchor 6 "points" (not pieces). Evaluate each piece for how many points you would give it and make sure the total of all pieces added together is at least 6, this is subjective and just based off your own judgement. I imagine both of those will be covered in the class.

I'm not trying to shoot you down--simply trying to refer you to two quality references for safety's sake.
I review them both at least annually.
Good luck with your class!

Brady3 wrote:If I were tying an anchor with four pieces I would tie the ends to each of the outer two pieces then tie a clove hitch to the middle two such that I have three loops coming down a little past where the master point will be. Adjust the clove hitches to even out the loops and adjust one end if the webbing is too long. Once you have it equalized then hold all three loops together and tie an overhand knot with all of them acting as one rope (this is more specifically called a Big Fricken Knot [BFK] or BHK).

There's no reason to clove hitch the middle pieces; just clip the rope through them as indicated in just about every cordelette diagram/photo you'll ever see.

That's what I'm talking about thank you I wasn't trying to be an asshole it's just I know safety is number 1 issue and I know stuff over the Internet is easy to misinterpret , but like I said I want to know as much as I can so when I am in the real life setting of the class I can ask questions on the set ups I feel comfortable working with and with set ups I need for certain climbs we want to do. I do understand where all you are coming from I just want to make sure you know where I am coming from and I do have a comprehensive anchor book its just I was wondering how you guys would go about making an anchor as the one I'm trying to make. Thanks again for being patient with me

Read John Longs book on anchors!

Then use an Equalette for the two trees, an equalete for the two tricams, and another equalete for connecting the tricam and tree equaletes to the focal point (where the top rope is connected).

This will come close to equalizing the load between the four anchor points (two trees, two tricams). Since there will be approximately 2 kN on the top rope, each anchor will only have about 0.5 kN (112 pounds) on it.

To reiterate - you don't have much knowledge and experience so there's a good chance you might make a fatal mistake!

WARNING! Climbing is a very dangerous activity. Take all precautions and evaluate your ability carefully. Use judgement rather than the opinions represented in these posts. The author assumes no responsibility for injury or death resulting from the use of this post. This post is based upon opinions. Do not rely on information, photo, or descriptions, as these are entirely subjective. If you are unwilling to assume complete responsibility for your safety, do not use this post.

I like it I've been making different anchors different ways with different materials and have been pulling legs to see how they would react if one leg broke as said above. And have been writing questions to ask the guide while I have time to do so with them. Like I said above I'm trying to figure out as much as I can before I go so I can ask questions in all scenarios I see myself in with my "local" climbing areas

The equalette is just a cordalette with two overhand knots tied in it. They equalize they load between anchor points way more effectively than a cordalette as demonstrated by testing, which is documented in John Longs book. Cordalettes tend to put most of the load on one of the anchor points. The equalette equalize within the range between the two overhand knots and limit extension to a few inches.

I was on a SAR team in Jackson Hole and we had to set up a anchor using trees that were only a few inches in diameter. We used many trees and equalized the anchor points with equalettes. The setup successfully held a rescue load of an injured person plus a SAR member, and then lifting them with a pulley system. This was a much larger load than only a top rope. But I have over forty years of climbing experience and 12 years of SAR experience - there is no substitute for experience.

Good luck with your class. Learn and read as much as you can. Practice setting up anchors. It would be nice if someone could mentor you.