the evolution of the camalot..

was just wondering if anyone had a picture of the first few generations of the black diamond camalot, i'm somewhat curious as to what they looked like compared to now...

arm-jammer wrote:was just wondering if anyone had a picture of the first few generations of the black diamond camalot, i'm somewhat curious as to what they looked like compared to now...

Here is a pic from needle sports
If you also do a goole search for Chouinard Camalots 1st generation.
you can get other info.

Chouinard Camalots 1st generation picture

needlesports.com/NeedleSpor…

actual web site
needlesports.com/NeedleSpor…

An earlier prototype had springs along the cables, as shown in the patent issued in 1987.

freepatentsonline.com/46433…

It's funny,back in '86, Charlie Fowler suggested a trip out to Indian Creek.He was in good with Chouinard-they loaned him every Camalot prototype in existence; wanted feedback.We were in fat city; had to place tons of gear to lighten the rack. There were a number of minor variations, but the U-cable was the order of the day.I believe that the real reason for that was that Wild Country's patent was still in effect;they had to do something different.

Find me in the Valley in Spring and Fall and in Tuoloumne in Summer and you can see first gen cams still on my rack and in use

cool, was just curious as to if there were any different styles before the U-stem, amazing that it was 3 generations until they converted.

thanks much gents.

arm-jammer wrote:cool, was just curious as to if there were any different styles before the U-stem, amazing that it was 3 generations until they converted. thanks much gents.

Actually the second generation is a single stem, without the thumb loop.

Did the thumb "bar" come before the molded one piece sheathing?

I just got a #2, 3 and 4 on eBay that are pretty nice looking too. I have a question.... No sling attached through the stem wire? Just a biner? Can't find any info on these cams. I just want to use them properly. Seems like a water knotted runner would shred and a biner would kink the hell out of the U stem... Any thoughts?

Adam Stackhouse wrote: Did the thumb "bar" come before the molded one piece sheathing?

Yes the thumb bar was the original, the molded one piece sheath is actually a later model. The thumb bar was a pain because the straight plastic shafts did not fit well into the thumb bar and everything would flop around. I tried gluing mine in place but that did not work very well. Nevertheless, they were a big improvement on what was on the market at the time.

Bloody 'ell Adam they don't even look like they've been used!

The thumb bar and trigger were machined and knurled black Delrin - not exactly sophisticated. I too remember the wire support tubing being a press fit into the thumb bar - they kept coming out! Quite a pain in the bum and very Rube Goldberg. The trigger bar would also roll around it's connecting wires.

The molded sheath was a marked improvement - Chouinard must've actually invested in some injection molding tools.

Like wires they should be used with a 'biner and 'draw/sling - never with a sling through the wire loop.

I have two sets of 1 - 3 and one #4. All original design I think.

You can tie a small accessory cord loop from the trigger up to the horizontal thumb squeeze bar to keep the trigger from popping out and getting messed up.

Have they always been double axle?

I've got some of those moulded U-stem Camalots, you can only use a carabiner to attach them.
Got a big note from BD when I sent them in with my other cams for resling.

They were nice enough to add slings to the juniors which didn't originally have them sewn on.

Chris Owen wrote:Bloody 'ell Adam they don't even look like they've been used! The thumb bar and trigger were machined and knurled black Delrin - not exactly sophisticated. I too remember the wire support tubing being a press fit into the thumb bar - they kept coming out! Quite a pain in the bum and very Rube Goldberg. The trigger bar would also roll around it's connecting wires. The molded sheath was a marked improvement - Chouinard must've actually invested in some injection molding tools. Like wires they should be used with a 'biner and 'draw/sling - never with a sling through the wire loop. I have two sets of 1 - 3 and one #4. All original design I think.

Dogs. I took a lighter, slightly heated mine (not to the point of the surface chanding in appearance to shiny/liquidy) and pressed it in super tightly. Held ever since.

ClimbBaja wrote:Beware if you are still using 1st gen Camalots. They were defective and prone to cracking, even without use. supertopo.com/climbing/thre…;msg=101473#msg101473 rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/fo…

Not to mention they all around suck. I remember a member pull testing several of those on this forum and he couldent get them to actually fail, they just bent to crap and slid out of the fixture well under their rating.

ClimbBaja wrote:Beware if you are still using 1st gen Camalots. They were defective and prone to cracking, even without use.

A club that I was part of had a whole bunch of these. Pretty much everyone had the cracking.

The Chouinard Camalots were not user friendly - the trigger was inconvenient to use and the head on the larger units flopped around. Although not many of these units are still in use, the following photos show the two structural problems that are known to develop with these units.

Note that the frayed cable at the connection to the head is a potential problem with most modern camming units too, but they can’t be visually inspected. A good note though is that flex-point and stress concentrations appear to be less sever on modern units, so it’s likely not a big concern.

climber pat wrote: Yes the thumb bar was the original, the molded one piece sheath is actually a later model. The thumb bar was a pain because the straight plastic shafts did not fit well into the thumb bar and everything would flop around. I tried gluing mine in place but that did not work very well. Nevertheless, they were a big improvement on what was on the market at the time.

Thumb bar = Gen 1.

One piece plastic stem thingie = Gen 2 These things are still fine IMO in hard rock, assuming no cracks in the head.

Single stem = Gen 3

Thumb loop = Gen 4. Hence C4 designation (Corvette fanciers will understand). Contrary to what many newbs think, C4 doesn't stand for 4 cams, though BD's C3 designation for their 3-lobe units did tend to muddy the water.