Dirtbag existence vs. educated and employed

I've done both in my life. I enjoyed retiring in my 20s, when I was strong and healthy.

I went back to school at 33, eventually getting a master's.

The trouble is, now when I'm hoping to retire (and still fairly active) I haven't had the power of compound interest working for me for decades.

Greg Petliski wrote: I have a few community college credits, no degree of any kind, but I am well read, and can think critically on my own.

Me, too. Conversely, just because someone got a degree doesn't mean they're "smart." It means they did the work necessary to complete the course of studies.

Greg Petliski wrote: Just because you have a degree doesn't necessarily entail having even learned something.

True, but there are jobs (like some management jobs where I used to work) that require a degree, no matter what the major is. They just want you to have a four-year degree.

I think getting a degree is good for someone that wants a job that requires one, or someone that isn't sure what they want to do. The cost needs to be taken in consideration.

Luc,

I'm an engineer who has also dirtbagged from time to time. It's totally possible to do both. I've taken 2 8 month trips now, and each time I've come back it's been an upward move. Plenty of data points like me floating around out there, too.

What I'd suggest is this: Patience. Get that degree first, get a job to gain a few years experience. Then, not only will you have savings, you'll have experience and a professional network. Engineers are pretty much always in demand, and most employers will find it interesting that you took the initiative to do something unique.

If you end up working save as much as possible while spending as little as possible, start young. Live like a dirtbag while working, quit early and travel to climb.

I thought getting an education was the perfect way of having a whole bunch of free time to go climbing, skiing, and whatever else while still leaving myself options for the future. School is pretty damn easy, especially considering you are judged in comparison to a bunch of people who poison themselves every night. Not that I didn't do the same but I digress...

If you are just starting off, go to a community college where you can get your 2 year degree dirt cheap. Take a part time job with the school, they usually pay pretty well and you have to be there anyway. I think I made another post about staying in school around here somewhere that was well received.

I've done both. I am a civil engineer.

Up to age 26, I worked some part time jobs, played outside a lot, earned a couple of degrees, and then played some more. Then I alternated between working "real" jobs for a year or two at a time, with full time playing for a year or two. After a few rounds of that, at 35 I went back to work full time. I've done that the last 7+ years.

Even when working fulltime and making good money, I've continued to live cheaply. I've never owned a new car, don't have cable, cook most of my own meals, and have only indulged myself in the last couple of years, acquiring some nice guitars (all were used) and replacing my stable of bicycles (bought two of those used). Even with those indulgences, I still spent <10% of income in those splurging years on non-essentials. I max the 401k, and save a total of ~ 60% of my gross/pre-tax income.

Now I'm 42yo, and because I have that education and put in that time working a real job, I'll be retired from professional life at around 46 with a nest egg that will allow me to continue living a lower middle class existence and play full time. I have typically climbed harder when working full time, than when playing full time. There is not as much urgency to get things done when you have no schedule, and it's very easy to fall into the drinking and toking everyday scheme. It's also effin boring, because you can only climb, bike, ski, fish, whatever so much and you need to rest. Meanwhile, your friends are working. I'm a natural loner, and enjoy my solitude, but even for me it can get boring and lonely. The alternative is following the dirtbag circus around the seasonal rotation, but then you have to hang out with those clowns all the time, half or more of whom don't get shit done because they are lazy, drunk, or both.

Living in the dirt has an appeal until you reach the age that you physically can't climb everyday, and start to realize that at some point you will need some financial security as age starts to overtake you. And if you value your time, why settle for getting paid shit wages for it? That's what you do on the part-time, low skill jobs. I make 5-10x more per hour than any low skill part timer, and get lots of perks...gym at work and 3 hours paid per week to use it, 5 weeks paid vacation, 10 paid holidays, pension, 401k matching, 2 weeks paid sick leave, etc.

My work isn't physically demanding, so I won't be broken down by middle age and can actually enjoy retirement. It also means I'm not so tired by the weekend, or after work, that I can climb and train hard.

Choose wisely, an education is something most people never regret, even if they end up doing something entirely unrelated to what they study. The experience, the people, learning HOW to learn and teach yourself, networking, it's a lot more than just a credential and sheepskin on the wall.

When you are young and have no responsibilities (i.e. kids), it can be fun to be footloose and pursue whatever makes you happiest.

When you get a bit older (and maybe have kids) and want to have certain things (a house, a decent car, etc), an education will be a great asset.

When you get even older, you don't want to find yourself with nothing but a bunch of memmories of fun times and not a lot of options for the future.

It's all about compromise between what you want and what you need. Life is like that.

I'm in a good college on a full ride, so money for college is no problem

Luc Ried wrote:I'm in a good college on a full ride, so money for college is no problem

Where are you going to school?

Lyon college in Arkansas, it's a highly accredited school (whoopdeedoo), there is a two year pre engineering program, then I may transfer to CU boulder

Luc Ried wrote:Lyon college in Arkansas, it's a highly accredited school (whoopdeedoo), there is a two year pre engineering program, then I may transfer to CU boulder

Well, good for you. That's a good school.
CU Boulder has an excellent engineering program.
You might also look at CO School of Mines in Golden. Terrific engineering school. (My son starts there in a couple weeks).

If I was gonna move to Colorado, and pay out-of-state tuition, and pursue engineering, I'd got CSU or the School of Mines. CU is a great place to smoke weed, get crabs, and piss away a ton of money. It really isn't that good of a school though. Not until you're in grad school anyway.

Brian Scoggins wrote:If I was gonna move to Colorado, and pay out-of-state tuition, and pursue engineering, I'd got CSU or the School of Mines. CU is a great place to smoke weed, get crabs, and piss away a ton of money. It really isn't that good of a school though. Not until you're in grad school anyway.

Yeah, takes a lot of restraint to not get caught up in the CU lifestyle but it is a decent engineering school
School of Mines is a better choice for a serious student and one of the best engineering schools in the country

Will S wrote: Even when working fulltime and making good money, I've continued to live cheaply. I've never owned a new car, don't have cable, cook most of my own meals, and have only indulged myself in the last couple of years, acquiring some nice guitars (all were used) and replacing my stable of bicycles (bought two of those used). Even with those indulgences, I still spent <10% of income in those splurging years on non-essentials. I max the 401k, and save a total of ~ 60% of my gross/pre-tax income. Now I'm 42yo, and because I have that education and put in that time working a real job, I'll be retired from professional life at around 46 with a nest egg that will allow me to continue living a lower middle class existence and play full time.

+1 that's what it's all about, except I can't get behind the no car thing. Fine if you are a city person living in the city and doing city stuff on the weekends, not so good when you want to get out into the mountains. Just don't buy a new car.

^^^^
Didn't say "no car", said "never owned a NEW car".

CU is not really a "good" engineering school. Fair to middling maybe, but certainly not anything that will impress anyone in the engineering field. I went to a top 5 school, and that actually opens doors when you are early in your career. CU is somewhere around 40th or 50th in most rankings, which is not what I'd consider "good" by any stretch. I think their AE program is good, but that's a very, very small field of employment and increasingly dominated by CompEng and CompSci types rather than actual AEs. Kind of like law programs, after the top 10 everything else is just another school in the eyes of employers.

The flipside is, if you're not going to get into a top program anyway, you might as well go somewhere with a high quality of life, and it's pretty high in Boulder.

oops, sorry. Reading comprehension obviously was not included with my engineering degree ;)

Will S wrote:^^^^ Didn't say "no car", said "never owned a NEW car". CU is not really a "good" engineering school. Fair to middling maybe, but certainly not anything that will impress anyone in the engineering field. I went to a top 5 school, and that actually opens doors. CU is somewhere around 40th or 50th in most rankings, which is not what I'd consider "good" by any stretch. I think their AE program is good, but that's a very, very small field and increasingly dominated by CompEng and CompSci types rather than actual AEs. Kind of like law programs, after the top 10 everything else is just another school in the eyes of employers. The flipside is, if you're not going to get into a top program anyway, you might as well go somewhere with a high quality of life, and it's pretty high in Boulder.

Guess it depends on who is doing the ranking, but CU Engineering has been ranked #34 in the US by US News and World Report and by Business Insider. #34 is not terrible but you are right-nobody cares if it's not top 10.

School of Mines was ranked #1 in the country by College Factual/USA Today but was only #56 in US News and World Report and #49 in Business Insider. Go figure...
college.usatoday.com/2014/0…

(sorry for straying off subject into areas that have little to do with climbing)

Associates degrees are worthless? Be a nurse. I did 2 years at an in-state community college(which cost <$10,000, total). I make my own schedule, so if I want to work 40-60 hours a week this month, I can. If I don't want to work, I don't. I make $25 an hour in rural WV, and could easily make $40+ if I wanted to live in a city.

The only people who will say that you definitely need a Bachelor's degree are the suckers who already paid for their Bachelor's degrees. You can always go back for that if things change down the road.

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote:Careful about the guys who mention teaching. What they didn't mention is that they love it. If they were only there for the schedule, they'd have split ages ago. It's got an OK schedule but the work fucking sucks. The entire profession is stuck in an appeasement phase where you have to cradle the balls of every parent, student, and administrator out there. The breaks are getting shorter and shorter, especially summer. Also, many nights you'll be at school or home doing work for hours. Same with the weekends. Same with your breaks. A teacher will work 55-70 hours a week depending on specific units and class supplies etc. This will not increase your pay or give you a bonus, it will only serve to keep you employed. To make matters worse, teachers PRIDE themselves on this sick overworking and underpaying high stress model. It's actually getting worse, more unpaid hours and more ball cupping. It's crazy competitive to get a job. There are so many new graduates that it's crazy competitive to keep a job. Remember, your principal whom you may get along with (he hired you after all) typically will only stay at a school 3-4 years. After that, consider yourself a new hire on probation again. Keep in mind that many teachers only make it for a short time and switch professions. I can think of about a dozen friends of mine who are all "teachers", they all quit. One is a housewife, another a park ranger, 5 became nurses, one is a dynamiter, several more are in school for another degree. It's the extreme minority of teachers that make it past 5 years. The time off you do get is always the crowded, hot, and most expensive times to travel. Forget about the perfect spring and fall. I don't know what you should choose but unless teaching is already your calling and you can't imagine doing anything but teaching, don't do it.

Let me guess ... You and most of your friends did T.F.A.? (The program that ruins potentially great teachers by putting them in the worst possible jobs.)

I only ask because your rant doesn't describe my experience in education even a little bit.

Whatever you do--don't get married or your dirtbaggin' days will come to a swift and inexorable conclusion.