Rescue in Eldo last night

tim wrote:No need to make this into more than it is. A couple people out climbing that appear to have very little common sense. No need to lump their entire generation in with it. 2 people with exceptionally bad judgement and no self-reliance ethic don't make a trend. BTW, this type of decision making should be harshly criticized, it is potentially bad for all of us. Shame and embarrassment can be a powerful deterrent. 

typical MP arrogance. The guys certainly made a few mistakes (which they admitted to). They shouldn't have gotten into the situation they did, but once they got there, calling for help was not a terrible idea.

It's very easy to sit back and judge people's decision-making from the comfort of your home...

It's also easy to apply your level of risk-tolerance to others...

Although I will say if you can't tolerate a night out, then perhaps multipitch climbing is not for you...

Maybe a dumb question...

what's "multi-pitch" mean?

I see needless calling of SAR all the time in Hawaii. Hikers often get lost and need to call SAR. Not that long ago a group of 12 hikers on a trail that basically has a paved sidewalk along the entire length called SAR because they ran out of water and dident want to hike back an hour to the car. It happens almost daily actually. Ridiculous.

It's very easy to sit back and judge people's decision-making from the comfort of your home..

They made it very easy

bearbreeder wrote:I have two 900 lumen headlamps (each weights 145g with bat and fits in a pocket)...

Brand/model? I haven't been able to find that combination of output, size, and weight.

Well, Gumbee, I can empathize as my partner and I pulled a similar stunt a couple of years ago despite having 60 years of experience between us and alpine background. He was coming from Wyoming and was delayed so we had a late start maybe 3 PM or later It was late October. We had some harder climbs in mind but decided to climb Anthill, mostly 5.5, except for the last 5.9 pitch. We took a small pack with us but for reasons that are hard to understand we both left our headlamps at the base of the climb. We moved along quickly (I’ve been on the route several times) but by time we got to the last pitch it was almost dark so I quickly scrambled up the 5.5 exit and, as I finished the route, it was really dark. No moon that night. The only light was from the cloud cover that reflected a bit of light from the Bolder-Denver area. I’ve done the East Slab descent several times, including a few times in heavy rain, but the darkness made it much more difficult. We decided to rappel. It took about 4 rappels to reach the bottom of the cliff. We are able to set anchors mostly using slings. We found a trail going south to the Cinch Crack area. On parts of this trail we actually crawled to make sure we wouldn’t fall off something (it was that dark). We set a final rappel to get past the big boulder near Cinch Crack and to keep us secure until we got to trail at the bottom of the scrambling. It was about 9 PM when we got back to our packs.

We pussyfooted our way down the trail to the road. When we got there one of my sons, who lives In Boulder, was waiting. My wife had called him up (after calling the local hospitals to make sure I wasn’t there) to go look for me and if he couldn’t find me to call the sheriff. He was just about ready to do that when he heard us coming down the trail. I suppose if we were still on our way down and he didn’t know where we were, it would have resulted in a rescue attempt, which when posted on Mt. Proj., would have subjected my partner and me to many of the comments you have received. Maybe I'll receive them anyway.

The East Slabs are easy but the consequences of a mistake can be serious. In June 1987 a party of two very good climbers was descending the Slabs when a rainstorm hit. They were past the Slabs themselves and were on one of the shorty, easy down climbs to the trail just north of the Slabs proper. Nobody usually ropes up for these. One of the climbers fell about 15 feet. She died. An accomplished climber who had just established a new route in Penitente as she and her partner we’re on a climbing trip.

The advice to hang out for the night is not without hazard. Cold, wet weather can occur without warning in the Front Range. About 15 years ago, two students from U. Colo. we’re climbing the standard 5.4 route on the Third Flatiron (I believe it was in April). They got caught in a cold rain storm about halfway up. They were found the next morning frozen to death.

Sometime in the mid-70s on a late fall day, a famous climber, whom I had met a year earlier, came to Eldorado to climb the Naked Edge, which was a big deal then. It was his first time in Eldorado. He asked me where the route was, and I showed him. It was about noontime and I had my misgivings about such a late start (remember this was a long time ago and there was no such things as speed ascents. Well-known climbers came to Eldorado just for the purpose of climbing it). When I left the parking lot later it was getting dark, and I felt a bit concerned as his car was still there. The next summer I bumped into him again and asked how the Naked Edge went. He said it went fine and didn’t take as long as he thought it would, but it was dark when they got to the East Slabs and that descending them was terrifying and took more time than the Naked Edge.

And finally to all the other old people who’ve posted here stop your crankiness and get over the fact that young people today grow up with smart phones. What’s changed climbing more than anything else is the automobile—far more than cell phones. And, anyway, Eldorado is an urban klettergarten not a wilderness area.

Rob.calm

Climbing friend,

You would simply need to be calling me in the night, and I may free solo flash to you on hardest possible route while shirtless. You can then cling to my meaty and veiny biceps as I rescue you.

idahomike wrote:First of all, I don't think it's helpful to be bashing these guys for getting freaked out and calling up RMRG to do exactly what they exist to do.

They don't exist to go guide people out in the dark who are running late. Other than it being dark, these folks were otherwise fine, and could have called SAR to detail where they thought they were and to give them a status report, tried to sleep in the night (difficult to do in the cold), then hiked out in the daylight. Directions are easier to find in the light. I once missed a trail by 10 feet in the dark no headlamp of course, pulled some thick bushy fir branches off to cushion the ground - went to sleep very confused and wishing I had a lighter and a coat, or 2 coats. Woke and bamm, trail right in front of my nose. I've slept out many nights, sometimes by myself -sometimes in very remote areas, when I screwed up and found it was later than I thought.

Anyway, to the guys who called it in, I hope that doesn't sound too harsh. You were there and the rest of us weren't - criticisms of you calling it in aren't really valid. You gained a bunch of knowledge and thats a good thing. Don't sweat the small stuff they say, and it's all small stuff if you survive:-)

Oh, critical trick to riding it out: make sure you keep your arms as tight to your body as possible. Pull them inside your coat or shirt so that they are right next to your core. You'll shiver and curse the night, but come first light -you're on your way.

I wonder how long it will take before someone dies because they are too ashamed to call in for a rescue out of fear of public ridicule (For all we know this has probably already happened). Then, inevitably the MP community would still posthumously scold them for waiting so long before asking for help.

If at the end of the day SAR says it was the right move, then it was the right thing to do. After all, they are the professionals who ACTUALLY deal with rescues, not just talk about it on the internet.

Rob's got it right in my book.

A few tricks to help, but you need to do it in advance:

My son was just starting out climbing. I bought him a zippered chalkbag and the things I have in my zippered pouch chalkbag and put them inside of the zippered pouch:

A) A headlamp. Black Diamond Ions are about the size of a large thuumbnail.
B) Lighter (the smaller Bic one)
C) Trango Pirana knife (.7 of an ounce is the weight)
D) A large square of paper towel (firestarter or Toilet paper)

2 weeks later he was out in the deepest canyon in the US bouldering with some other folks. He remembered the crummy little piece of shit headlamp and it was instrumental in getting them all out safety down a steep hill to the trail and out in the pitch dark. The other trick, and it won't work for all helmets, get a small space blanket and tuck it up in your helmet.

Seth Kane wrote: if you wait until you're going to die within two hours, you'll likely be dead by the time SAR gets there.

I was thinking the exact same thing. So may arrogant pricks on this thread, Rick the most recent one to crawl out of the cracks. The amount of monday morning quarterbacking going on here is laughable.

I'm glad you guys got out ok and learned from your mistakes. Weather you should/shouldn't have called for SAR, you're a better climber today after the experience. Props for the honest account of what happened that night as well.

Craig Childre wrote:The cell phone camera has ruined the wilderness experience ...

How so?

Marc801 wrote: How so?

_Ruined_ might be an overstatement, but cameras do alter the experience:

article


Photographing every single life event may lessen your ability to recall details from memory, a small new study suggests. When subjects relied on their cameras to 'remember' for them in a museum, they didn't recall their experiences as well as when they simply observed.

Mark Wyss wrote: I was thinking the exact same thing. So may arrogant pricks on this thread, Rick the most recent one to crawl out of the cracks. The amount of monday morning quarterbacking going on here is laughable. I'm glad you guys got out ok and learned from your mistakes. Weather you should/shouldn't have called for SAR, you're a better climber today after the experience. Props for the honest account of what happened that night as well.

I was exaggerating to make a point. Stimulate thought and laugh a little. Not to offend. My apologies Mark.
But, what line should be drawn for calling search and rescue?
It's dark and I'm lost?
I might get cold?
I might get wet?
I might get hurt?

What's the line?

Rick McL wrote: I was exaggerating to make a point. Not to offend. My apologies Mark. But, what line should be drawn for calling search and rescue? It's dark and I'm lost? I might get cold? I might get wet? I might get hurt? What's the line?

The line is drawn by the individual(s) and SAR can decline. Then, everyone else second-guesses the line. But the decision to call SAR is solely up to the individual, right or wrong.

FrankPS wrote: The line is drawn by the individual(s) and SAR can decline. Then, everyone else second-guesses the line. But the decision to call SAR is solely up to the individual, right or wrong.

And each situation is unique and subject to the decision making capability at the time.

Gregger Man wrote: _Ruined_ might be an overstatement, but cameras do alter the experience: article Photographing every single life event may lessen your ability to recall details from memory, a small new study suggests. When subjects relied on their cameras to 'remember' for them in a museum, they didn't recall their experiences as well as when they simply observed.

Well, yeah, but that applies to any camera. The post I was asking about specifically implicated cell phone cameras.

Gregger Man wrote: _Ruined_ might be an overstatement, but cameras do alter the experience: article Photographing every single life event may lessen your ability to recall details from memory, a small new study suggests. When subjects relied on their cameras to 'remember' for them in a museum, they didn't recall their experiences as well as when they simply observed.

This worry goes back a lot further than cell phone cameras. Here's what Plato thought about writing,

Plato, writing about Socrates, talking to Phaedrus, telling him about Thoth and Thamus.

...for this discovery of yours [writing] will create forgetfulness in the learners’ souls, because they will not use their memories; they will trust to the external written characters and not remember of themselves.

Robertus Punctum Pacificus

Saw the RMR truck screaming south down Broadway yesterday evening, anybody know what was up?